5thGenRams Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • We have been battling an on and off issue with registration verification emails not being sent out with certain users. We have finally got the issue resolved so if you have tried registering for the site but have not received a verification email, just request another verification email when you log in and you should now receive it. If you still don't receive the verification email, send us an email at [email protected] and we will get it resolved for you. Thanks!

how often is everyone changing oil

Idahoktm

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
2,326
Reaction score
2,781
Location
CDA, Idaho
I doubt mechanical differences.
Some simple read on 0W vs 5W:

My take away from the article:
"In SAE terminology, the lower the number before the ‘W’ is, the better the motor oil performs at cold temps. As 0W20 is a far thinner oil than 5W-20, it is more stable at cold temperature than the latter and flows smoothly through the critical engine parts.

5W-20 is a comparatively thicker viscosity oil and is better for a normal operating temperature range of -22°F to 68°F. "

I'll stay with the 5W-20 unless modified/notified by Ram/FCA. I might consider the 0W if I was located in colder climates.
0w20 is not "far thinner oil" than 5w20, but that's what you get when someone interjects their opinion rather than facts.
 

Florida RAM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
89
Reaction score
88
Something prompted Mopar to change the oil recommendation. I wonder what it is.
 

Jako

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
1,170
Location
NYC unfortunately
0w20 is not "far thinner oil" than 5w20, but that's what you get when someone interjects their opinion rather than facts.
"Far thinner oil"
0w20 is not "far thinner oil" than 5w20, but that's what you get when someone interjects their opinion rather than facts.
From the article
"It’s a slightly thicker oil", "5W-20 is a comparatively thicker viscosity oil"
 

Jako

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
1,170
Location
NYC unfortunately
Or better initial lubrication on startup, where the wear is highest?
Interesting between you and HemiDude. My short run mpgs are comparatively less in winter vs other months. I'm aware of winter blends. Short run mpgs suck no matter what.

I do a lot of 2 mile runs and have side lined my 2019 for these runs due to the wear on startup and other reasons.
 

SD Rebel

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
2,963
Reaction score
2,338
Location
San Diego, CA
Interesting between you and HemiDude. My short run mpgs are comparatively less in winter vs other months. I'm aware of winter blends. Short run mpgs suck no matter what.

I do a lot of 2 mile runs and have side lined my 2019 for these runs due to the wear on startup and other reasons.

I suspect it's both reasons. I wish they just had an engineer give a definite reason to these choices, though it makes the message boards interesting that they don't.
 

Idahoktm

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
2,326
Reaction score
2,781
Location
CDA, Idaho
"Far thinner oil"

From the article
"It’s a slightly thicker oil", "5W-20 is a comparatively thicker viscosity oil"

That guy is all over the place. 0w20 is far thinner than 5w20, yet 5w20 is slightly thicker than 0w20. 🤣

Screenshot_20220629-083818_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20220629-084016_Chrome.jpg
 

Darksteel165

Ram Guru
Joined
Dec 16, 2021
Messages
642
Reaction score
236
Location
Massachusetts
That guy is all over the place. 0w20 is far thinner than 5w20, yet 5w20 is slightly thicker than 0w20. 🤣

View attachment 133437 View attachment 133438
I don't have it anymore but my kia had 2 options of oil you could run and it had a graph of temps vs oil you would use.
If I recall using the lower number only mattered if you had lots days when you would have negative double digits which I don't get so I could run the larger number. Running the higher number also wasn't a big deal for me as I don't get triple digit tempature days except maybe 1 every few years. I ran whatever I had at that time which I think was the higher number it recommended.

The older rams stated 5w20 the new says 0w20.
Im sure you would be fine using 5w20 but unless you are burning the oil up and not draining the same amount you are putting in then 0w20 is fine.

I burned .75 quart in just under 2k miles after I changed my oil using 0w20 but I'm still in a break in period it seems so hopefully was just a temp problem.
 

Jako

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
1,170
Location
NYC unfortunately
That guy is all over the place. 0w20 is far thinner than 5w20, yet 5w20 is slightly thicker than 0w20. 🤣

View attachment 133437 View attachment 133438
Only needed the "far thinner oil" highlighted or underlined. Missed that. Duly noted among other.

"Far thinner" is in the paragraph with cold temps, which perhaps it should have been expressed in a different fashion.
My take away is he meant that at "cold temps" (degree of cold -22 or colder?) 0W20 is "far thinner" and at other temps (-22 to 68?) 5W20 is "Comparatively thicker" and "slightly thicker"?
 

HoosierTrooper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
287
Reaction score
287
Location
Indiana
The author of that mess is completely clueless. The SAE uses two tests to determine an oils winter rating, which is what the W stands for, not "weight". The first test is the cold cranking simulator, CCS, and it measures an oils ability to allow an engine to crank at cold temperatures. The CCS test methodology is outlined in ASTM D5293. To achieve a 0 winter rating the oil must pass the test at -35C, to achieve a 5 winter rating the oil must pass the CCS test at -30C.

The second test is the mini-rotary viscosity, MRV, and measures an oils ability to be pumped at cold temperature. The MRV test methodology is outlined in ASTM D4684. To achieve a 0 winter rating the oil must pass the MRV test at -40C, to achieve a 5 winter rating the oil has to pass the test at -35C.

Until the ambient temperature is in the -25F or so range there is no real difference in pumpability between 0W-xx and 5W-xx oils., and at that temperature both oils are extremely viscous, the 0W is a little less likely to gel at those extreme temperatures than 5W. Since vehicles use positive displacement oil pumps a 0W-xx oil isn't going to pump or "flow' faster than a 5w-xx, the oil pump will be sending the same volume of oil regardless of the oils winter rating.

The SAE defines operating temperature as 100C (212F) and at that temperature both oils are 20 grade, which means they have a kinematic viscosity range of 6.9-9.29 centistokes (cSt). 0W-20 isn't inherently thinner than 5W-20 and 5W-20 isn't inherently thicker than 0W-20. Since 20 grade is a range of viscosities, as are all of the SAE recognized grades, one may be a bit thinner or thicker depending on what final viscosity the blender was aiming for.

Attached is SAE J300 which clearly displays all of the viscosity data.

sae-j300-engine-viscosity-table.jpg
 
Last edited:

Florida RAM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
89
Reaction score
88
With the huge majority of trucks being sold in the US, and most of those in the lower half of the country, I wonder why they recommend a cold weather oil. I am never going to see -22 degrees here in Florida. And when I lived in Washington State it dropped down into the minus teens once in a while, but only for very brief periods. Is 0W20 really necessary?
 

HoosierTrooper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
287
Reaction score
287
Location
Indiana
With the huge majority of trucks being sold in the US, and most of those in the lower half of the country, I wonder why they recommend a cold weather oil. I am never going to see -22 degrees here in Florida. And when I lived in Washington State it dropped down into the minus teens once in a while, but only for very brief periods. Is 0W20 really necessary?
You’re never going to see -31F (-35C) either which is what an oil has to be tested at to pass the MRV pumping test to qualify as a 5W as I explained above. So, is 5W-20 necessary in Florida where it’s never going to get to -31F?
 

Florida RAM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
89
Reaction score
88
You’re never going to see -31F (-35C) either which is what an oil has to be tested at to pass the MRV pumping test to qualify as a 5W as I explained above. So, is 5W-20 necessary in Florida where it’s never going to get to -31F?
I have no idea. I never really thought about it much....but now it has me wondering. If I don't need severe cold weather oil like a 0W or 5W, what would be ideal for mild to hot weather conditions?
 

Jako

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
1,170
Location
NYC unfortunately
The author of that mess is completely clueless. The SAE uses two tests to determine an oils winter rating, which is what the W stands for, not "weight". The first test is the cold cranking simulator, CCS, and it measures an oils ability to allow an engine to crank at cold temperatures. The CCS test methodology is outlined in ASTM D5293. To achieve a 0 winter rating the oil must pass the test at -35C, to achieve a 5 winter rating the oil must pass the CCS test at -30C.

The second test is the mini-rotary viscosity, MRV, and measures an oils ability to be pumped at cold temperature. The MRV test methodology is outlined in ASTM D4684. To achieve a 0 winter rating the oil must pass the MRV test at -40C, to achieve a 5 winter rating the oil has to pass the test at -35C.

Until the ambient temperature is in the -25F or so range there is no real difference in pumpability between 0W-xx and 5W-xx oils., and at that temperature both oils are extremely viscous, the 0W is a little less likely to gel at those extreme temperatures than 5W. Since vehicles use positive displacement oil pumps a 0W-xx oil isn't going to pump or "flow' faster than a 5w-xx, the oil pump will be sending the same volume of oil regardless of the oils winter rating.

The SAE defines operating temperature as 100C (212F) and at that temperature both oils are 20 grade, which means they have a kinematic viscosity range of 6.9-9.29 centistokes (CST). 0W-20 isn't inherently thinner than 5W-20 and 5W-20 isn't inherently thicker than 0W-20. Since 20 grade is a range of viscosities, as are all of the SAE recognized grades, one may be a bit thinner or thicker depending on what final viscosity the blender was aiming for.

Attached is SAE J300 which clearly displays all of the viscosity data.

View attachment 133461
Thanks for the info.
If the outside temperature is between -10 and 100F is there any benefit of one over the other? Doesn't appear to be from the information.


I have no idea. I never really thought about it much....but now it has me wondering. If I don't need severe cold weather oil like a 0W or 5W, what would be ideal for mild to hot weather conditions?
An explanation on a Toyota forum stated that 0W-20 only comes in synthetic (or perhaps it did?). Toyota by calling for 0W-20 calls for synthetic without making the statement for a relatively more expensive oil requirement.

See posts 157, 158 and 159 for the changes in owner's manuals from 2019 to 2021 and 2022.
 

HoosierTrooper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
287
Reaction score
287
Location
Indiana
I have no idea. I never really thought about it much....but now it has me wondering. If I don't need severe cold weather oil like a 0W or 5W, what would be ideal for mild to hot weather conditions?
My first suggestion would be to quit looking at 0W or 5W oils as being “severe cold weather oil”, that’s not an accurate term. They’re multi- grade oils that can be used under a wide range of driving and weather conditions, and have been around for many, many years.

The MRV test for 10W oil is conducted at -30C (-22F) and 15W at -25C (-13F) and no one would consider them “severe cold weather oils” but both can be picked up and pumped by the oil pump at temperatures you’ll never see in Florida.

The base oils and additive packages available today and used to produce the current API SP ILSAC GF-6 rated oils are so good that worrying about the winter rating is kind of pointless, especially since Stellantis doesn’t allow for the use of other grades.
 

Florida RAM

Active Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2022
Messages
89
Reaction score
88
My first suggestion would be to quit looking at 0W or 5W oils as being “severe cold weather oil”, that’s not an accurate term. They’re multi- grade oils that can be used under a wide range of driving and weather conditions, and have been around for many, many years.

The MRV test for 10W oil is conducted at -30C (-22F) and 15W at -25C (-13F) and no one would consider them “severe cold weather oils” but both can be picked up and pumped by the oil pump at temperatures you’ll never see in Florida.

The base oils and additive packages available today and used to produce the current API SP ILSAC GF-6 rated oils are so good that worrying about the winter rating is kind of pointless, especially since Stellantis doesn’t allow for the use of other grades.
I'm just wondering if there might be a better oil for high temp climates. If the big thing about 0W and 5W is their extreme cold weather tolerance, why would that be the recommended oil for warm climates? I've never really paid attention to oils, but this discussion has me curious if the 0W-20 is actually the most appropriate oil for my climate, or if it's just Mopar covering all the bases just to be safe.
 

HoosierTrooper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
287
Reaction score
287
Location
Indiana
I'm just wondering if there might be a better oil for high temp climates. If the big thing about 0W and 5W is their extreme cold weather tolerance, why would that be the recommended oil for warm climates? I've never really paid attention to oils, but this discussion has me curious if the 0W-20 is actually the most appropriate oil for my climate, or if it's just Mopar covering all the bases just to be safe.
It's always hotter inside a fully warmed up engine than what the ambient air temperature is, plus the Hemis have heat exchangers to help control the oil temp. Again, you're focusing too much on the winter rating. At operating temp they're still 20 grades., and 20 grades have been in widespread use for over 20 years by auto manufacturers such as Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, Porsche, FCA/Stellantis and BMW just to name a few. Untold millions (billions?) of miles have been driven under every weather condition imaginable, not to mention all of the testing done by the auto and oil manufacturers. Ford recommends 5W-20 in the F150 5.0L and GM recommends 0W-20 in their 5.3L Silverado and Sierra pickups, just think about how many miles are driven every year by those vehicles alone towing heavy trailers in extremely hot weather.

20 grades became more common as auto manufacturers tried to meet tougher CAFE standards, and under the EPA rules whatever grade oil the manufacturer used for their published mileage estimates is what they have to recommend the consumer uses. That's why it's rare to find an owners manual that allows for different grades to be used depending on anticipated weather and driving conditions, and that's why only one grade is recommended in our owners manual.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top