How heavy is too heavy.

[silver billet]

When I was in the Philippines in 1976 I saw a full grown Carabao (water buffalo) being taken someplace in an old surplus army 1/4T trailer. Wish I had taken a picture. Anyway for you non-army types, the 1/4T trailer had a capacity of, you got it, 1/4 Ton or 500#. A full grown male Carabao goes
500 kg.', so 1,127#. (They hauled them around all the time in those trailers.) Of course nobody paid any attention to gvwr back then on anything.
View attachment 98321Point is, a lot of trucks/trailers can be safely overloaded especially if low speeds and no grades. It's really the rims and tires which will fail first, brakes next especially if going down a steep grade.

There is a difference between "safely towing" and "oh look ma, made it here without killing myself!!"

 

[Nick57]

When I was in my early 20's I towed a old Buick on a trailer with my little wrangler with bias ply tires and drum brakes with no trailer brakes. That was def one of those... HEY WE DIDN'T DIE! lol

 

[Trooper4]

When I was in my early 20's I towed a old Buick on a trailer with my little wrangler with bias ply tires and drum brakes with no trailer brakes. That was def one of those... HEY WE DIDN'T DIE! lol

Did some crazy $h!t when we were young and lived to laugh about it. Towed a 9000+ Holiday Rambler from Portland Oregon to Pasco Washington with a '88 Jeep Comanche (1/4ton with WDH) ONCE. Look ma, made it without killing anyone. Did it surprisingly well.

 

[ChadT]

Did some crazy $h!t when we were young and lived to laugh about it. Towed a 9000+ Holiday Rambler from Portland Oregon to Pasco Washington with a '88 Jeep Comanche (1/4ton with WDH) ONCE. Look ma, made it without killing anyone. Did it surprisingly well.

I'm totally guilty of being a deputy of the Payload Police on this board, so allow me to take the brunt of this joke (and perhaps deservedly so)

 

[nc_beagle]

This isn't quite apples-to-apples, but I have a Grand Cherokee Summit with a 1050# payload. Several months ago, I thought it had a 1200# payload and put 1200# of grits (for a food bank) in the back. Add my 150# and I was unintentionally 300# or 30% over my payload. The Jeep rode fine but I could tell the weight was there.

A worse example was when I really didn't know about payload ratings and had 2200# of stone (on a pallet) in the back of our 1996 F-150 longbed with me and a friend in the cab (another 300#.) GVWR is 6250# on the door jamb sticker. I drove really slowly for about 20 miles on back roads. The truck rode really low and braking was something you planned ahead. I imagine the helper springs on the rear kept it from squatting down onto the tires. I'd never try that again, knowing what I do now.

 

[Trooper4]

This isn't quite apples-to-apples, but I have a Grand Cherokee Summit with a 1050# payload. Several months ago, I thought it had a 1200# payload and put 1200# of grits (for a food bank) in the back. Add my 150# and I was unintentionally 300# or 30% over my payload. The Jeep rode fine but I could tell the weight was there.

A worse example was when I really didn't know about payload ratings and had 2200# of stone (on a pallet) in the back of our 1996 F-150 longbed with me and a friend in the cab (another 300#.) GVWR is 6250# on the door jamb sticker. I drove really slowly for about 20 miles on back roads. The truck rode really low and braking was something you planned ahead. I imagine the helper springs on the rear kept it from squatting down onto the tires. I'd never try that again, knowing what I do now.

Ahhhh!

This isn't quite apples-to-apples, but I have a Grand Cherokee Summit with a 1050# payload. Several months ago, I thought it had a 1200# payload and put 1200# of grits (for a food bank) in the back. Add my 150# and I was unintentionally 300# or 30% over my payload. The Jeep rode fine but I could tell the weight was there.

A worse example was when I really didn't know about payload ratings and had 2200# of stone (on a pallet) in the back of our 1996 F-150 longbed with me and a friend in the cab (another 300#.) GVWR is 6250# on the door jamb sticker. I drove really slowly for about 20 miles on back roads. The truck rode really low and braking was something you planned ahead. I imagine the helper springs on the rear kept it from squatting down onto the tires. I'd never try that again, knowing what I do now.

Ah! Back when we were young and dumb and full of$%^&.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Edit: Back in the past I was about the worst offender, probably due to 1 - my dad didn't teach me squat about vehicles (for pickups, I always followed the accepted practice of "how far down is the back" and "how much are the (bias ply) tires squatting?" and 2 - I was in the army at 17 and as soon as I could was driving 2.5 ton trucks and they hauled most anything anywhere. The 2.5 ton rating was overland, whereas on paved roads they were rated for 5 tons.
Same with the 5 ton trucks, they doubled the rating on improved roads. One look at the spring pack and you could see why (5 ton pictured below):


Heres a standard Chebbie 2018 1500 leaf:

and a 2018 3500 HD Chebbie leaf:

 

[Willwork4truck]

From a June 2021 Jayco travel trailer forum I'm currently reading.
Hard to believe that these comments keep happening over and over and over...
(Begin post excerpt)

Will a bigger tow vehicle will help with road sway?

---

My 2016 F-150 2.7EB doesn't seem to be enough truck for my 28BHS. The engine seems to be strong enough, but the amount of sway is alarming at times. I am tossed around on the freeway like a toy, it seems. I stay 5 under the speed limit, and my trailer isn't packed with stuff..... (Bolding is mine)

Should I stick with the F-150, just get a new model with a V-8 ? Will I obtain much more control of the truck/rig if I go to an F-250 ?
(End post excerpt)

The poster is correct about one thing - the 2.7 is enough motor (I had a 2015 with the 2.7). A quick check on the net' for his stated trailer showed:

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs)	6765
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs)	830
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) (bolding is mine)	8850
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs)	2085

Edit - In post #27 this comment was made (which peeps generally don't know about): "Finally remember that weight limit was mostly done with flat steel panels below the tailgate height. TT are the worst things to tow. It’s a big old sail without any aerodynamic properties." (End of copied part of post)

Typical newbie: "Will my F150 tow this ok?"
Trailer Salesman: "Sure thing, like a boss!"

Peeps, there are reasonable limits. I would suggest to readers that this guy, based on his own post statements, is past his limits.
I know some of you are professional drivers with x million miles under your belt and you tow a 32' TT with your 7100# GVWR truck however "you are the exception" as far as safety goes. When in doubt, just don't.

 

[ChadT]

From a June 2021 Jayco travel trailer forum I'm currently reading.
Hard to believe that these comments keep happening over and over and over...
(Begin post excerpt)
Will a bigger tow vehicle will help with road sway?

---

My 2016 F-150 2.7EB doesn't seem to be enough truck for my 28BHS. The engine seems to be strong enough, but the amount of sway is alarming at times. I am tossed around on the freeway like a toy, it seems. I stay 5 under the speed limit, and my trailer isn't packed with stuff..... (Bolding is mine)

Should I stick with the F-150, just get a new model with a V-8 ? Will I obtain much more control of the truck/rig if I go to an F-250 ?
(End post excerpt)

The poster is correct about one thing - the 2.7 is enough motor (I had a 2015 with the 2.7). A quick check on the net' for his stated trailer showed:

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs)	6765
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs)	830
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs)	8850
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs)	2085

I didn'r read the 63 replies and don't know his hitch setup or family size but the TT sales place sure saw him coming!
Typical newbie: "Will my F150 tow this ok?"
Salesman: "Sure thing, like a boss!"

Peeps, there are reasonable limits. I would suggest to readers that this guy, based on his own post statements, is past his limits.
I know some of you are professional drivers with x million miles under your belt and you tow a 32' TT with your 7100# GVWR truck however "you are the exception" as far as safety goes. When in doubt, just don't.

I think that we're at the point where, our 1/2ton truck engines are more than powerful enough to pull the load.
When a load is just heavy but "small" or compact? It's a best case scenario.
Flat terrain? No semi trucks blowing by you? even better.
But, when the load isn't small and heavy, but is in fact a 30foot sail?
It's a 10,000lb, 30ft long sail, throwing around a 5,000lb aluminum truck (some of the F-150s are darn light).
At that point even a 5,950lb fully loaded Limited or Rebel, still going to be pushed around by the wind.

I know the tow ratings keep going up as truck buyers are often a numbers driven consumer?
But. Are they really going up meaningfully? I don't know about that.
"Heavy" is still best left to heavyduty trucks.
The halftons are still capable of handling appropriate loads, they are, but there is a line, and it's generally way lower than what the commercial lets guys think it is.

I share that opinion

 

[Willwork4truck]

Just to give "the other group" their due, post 55 in that thread says:
(Begin copied portion of post)
"We pull a 28BHS with a RAM 1500 1/2 ton. About 8000lbs loaded, 1000lbs tongue weight (scaled). We use an Equalizer 4 point 1400 hitch.

I find the towing experience satisfactory once I dialed in my hitch. I don’t experience sway, although I do experience some semi push/pull. The truck pulls slowly up grades with the 5.7L V8 at high revs (3-4000 rpm) but we’ve gone everywhere we wanted. With downshifting, we’ve not had any problems with speed control.

I do have a question for those who have upgraded their truck. We find the towing ride to be quite jarring when we drive on rough highway — seams, bridges, snow damage, etc. Unfortunately the western US states seem to have a lot of poor highway! I-40 and US160 are recent drives that were jarring." (End of copied portion)

I'd say this guy (above) is towing overweight as he doesn't mention his RAM's payload nor does he talk about the occupant and equipment weights plus he's driving in the mountains, however he's reasonably "satisfied"...

**Theres a different thread on the same forum that responds to the famous "can I tow this" question in a way that seems pretty easy to understand. I'll copy/paste it here:
"...And I'll give a real-world example of how worthless "Tow Capacity" is. My former truck, a 2005 F-150 crew cab 5.4L with tow package, had a tow capacity of 9,200 lbs. However, the door jamb sticker was a payload of just under 1,300 lbs.

I stick my family of 5 in the cab and wood and gear in the bed and I end up with a number very similar to the build above. Let's say 875 lbs for easy math.

Then, using blind faith in my Tow Capacity, I hook up a 9,000 lbs trailer to my truck. That's dropping 9000 * .125 = 1,125 lbs onto my hitch. Hey, I'm still 200 lbs under my tow limit, so I'm good to go!! (that part is hypothetical ... I never owned or towed a 9,000 lb trailer)

Meanwhile, I literally have 2,000 lbs loaded onto my truck (875 + 1125) against a payload of 1,300. I'm 700 lbs over my truck's GVWR. It's not safe and it wouldn't even be possible with that truck. So, ignore Tow Capacity. It's a garbage number that leads to really poor decisions." (End of copied portion, bolding is mine)
__________________

 

[Willwork4truck]

This was a response, never seen this UHaul vid before but its actually quite the easy way to "see" what the result of not enough tongue weight does:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mW_gzdh6to

 

[Willwork4truck]

Speaking of the delay in ordering new travel trailers now, this from the same Jayco TT forum, June 2021: (Begin copied post reply)
"I would stay in touch with your dealer. Supply chain constraints are killing everything. Our 264bhok order was cancelled (Jayco called me directly) and the model is currently discontinued. We found a similar spec for more with the help of Jayco but man was it a last minute scramble.
I would expect 4-6 months minimum unless is a unit consolidated to the build schedule." (End of copied post)

 

[dannymcd]

I have the 5.7 3.21 rear. Tongue is about 900 on a 7400# trailer, I've cat scaled it and its right at GVCW less 100# with more than everything I would take with us on one trip(worst case scenario). the truck is about 150# over the GVW but the individual axle loads are under. I use a WDH (weighsafe) and airbag helpers (airlift1000's). The WDH does all the work and the airbags stop it from seesawing. Our last trip we left our Great Dane home, she's 11yrs old and really can't handle it anymore, since she's about 165lbs we're running green in all the areas and the truck has never struggled pulling it, even up steep climbs out of valleys and up mountains. We get between 9 and 12mpg and the trailer is a 27' box and 34' overall.

 

[Willwork4truck]

I have the 5.7 3.21 rear. Tongue is about 900 on a 7400# trailer, I've cat scaled it and its right at GVCW less 100# with more than everything I would take with us on one trip(worst case scenario). the truck is about 150# over the GVW but the individual axle loads are under. I use a WDH (weighsafe) and airbag helpers (airlift1000's). The WDH does all the work and the airbags stop it from seesawing. Our last trip we left our Great Dane home, she's 11yrs old and really can't handle it anymore, since she's about 165lbs we're running green in all the areas and the truck has never struggled pulling it, even up steep climbs out of valleys and up mountains. We get between 9 and 12mpg and the trailer is a 27' box and 34' overall.

You know your weights which is a lot more than many.
You should bring the GD along to help pull you up those hills...