Help with the ole tick tick tick

[RAL]

Lots of theories out there. The most likely is, poor cam or lifter hardening.

However, you can take steps to mitigate this in the future, running a premium oil (instead of royal purple, it doesn't have a great reputation), running a thicker viscosity (5w-30 offers more protection due to greater HT/HS especially while hot), and changing your oil at 5000 mile intervals instead of relying on the meter in the truck. A higher efficiency filter like the royal purple 20-820 or fram xg2 is also widely recommended instead of stock/mopar.

I am sorry, but you keep repeating the magic oil hypothesis and it is simply not correct. If you have a problem with improper hardening of a camshaft, and the owner like this original poster seems like a knowledgeable guy who keeps up on maintenance, so we can rule out neglect, there is No magic oil or filter that will correct the problem - the cam will fail. Respectfully, if you have ever disassembled a motor you would appreciate better the degree of strength that these components need to have to last. And while proper lubrication is critical to longevity, if the hardening on a cam Or any other component in the valvetrain if off, you are going to have a failure.

i am not trying to argue, but a tale from my youth to further illustrate: I rebuilt a 1980s BMW 5 series as my first car in the late 1980s. Among other problems, the car had a bad cam and needed a cam and rocker arms. BMW afficianados of that time always attributed these problems to poor oil change practices or to not adjusting the valves frequently enough. They didn’t want to fault BMW and all pushed Castrol as the magic oil to avoid the issue. After I had rebuilt it and had it at an HPDE a few times, I ran into An old timer BMW mechanic who wanted to talk cars. I mentioned the cam and head work I had done and he commented that BMW had a problem with improper cam hardening on the M30b32 and early b34 cams. He said the other reasons were BS, as he had replaced hundreds of them at the dealer.

If our poster has been using a good quality 5w20 or 0w20 oil changed at a reasonable interval, this would not happen to a properly hardened cam. This is a manufacturing defect, plain and simple, unless there is information we do not have thus far. Telling people to buy oil that probably costs $12 a quart is bad information and a waste of money.

 

[silver billet]

I am sorry, but you keep repeating the magic oil hypothesis and it is simply not correct. If you have a problem with improper hardening of a camshaft, and the owner like this original poster seems like a knowledgeable guy who keeps up on maintenance, so we can rule out neglect, there is No magic oil or filter that will correct the problem - the cam will fail. Respectfully, if you have ever disassembled a motor you would appreciate better the degree of strength that these components need to have to last. And while proper lubrication is critical to longevity, if the hardening on a cam Or any other component in the valvetrain if off, you are going to have a failure.

i am not trying to argue, but a tale from my youth to further illustrate: I rebuilt a 1980s BMW 5 series as my first car in the late 1980s. Among other problems, the car had a bad cam and needed a cam and rocker arms. BMW afficianados of that time always attributed these problems to poor oil change practices or to not adjusting the valves frequently enough. They didn’t want to fault BMW and all pushed Castrol as the magic oil to avoid the issue. After I had rebuilt it and had it at an HPDE a few times, I ran into An old timer BMW mechanic who wanted to talk cars. I mentioned the cam and head work I had done and he commented that BMW had a problem with improper cam hardening on the M30b32 and early b34 cams. He said the other reasons were BS, as he had replaced hundreds of them at the dealer.

If our poster has been using a good quality 5w20 or 0w20 oil changed at a reasonable interval, this would not happen to a properly hardened cam. This is a manufacturing defect, plain and simple, unless there is information we do not have thus far. Telling people to buy oil that probably costs $12 a quart is bad information and a waste of money.

You're more than welcome to your opinion. If you spent any time on the other forum you'd see the large amount of success something like Redline can do with the hemi tick.

It's not about magic oil, it's about premium oil, the correct viscosity (which is 5w-30) and good oil change intervals. As I said, it won't necessarily prevent the bad cam from failure, but it can definitely extend the life and/or remove the noise itself.

 

[ChadAllen]

You're more than welcome to your opinion. If you spent any time on the other forum you'd see the large amount of success something like Redline can do with the hemi tick.

It's not about magic oil, it's about premium oil, the correct viscosity (which is 5w-30) and good oil change intervals. As I said, it won't necessarily prevent the bad cam from failure, but it can definitely extend the life and/or remove the noise itself.

You're both right, IMHO. It depends on the tick. A tick can be caused by a dozen different things, all related to the lifters/cam system. A tick like mine, caused by poor hardening of the cam, isn't going to cure the tick because it's caused by physical damage. Same goes if the roller is already seized. Use whatever oil you want. Nothing is going to stop that tick short of replacing the parts.

However, let's remember these rollers are made in Mexico, and China before that. They have much looser guidelines on clearances and such. If the tick is caused by a tiny bit of play in the roller bearing because it wasn't made to spec, then a thicker oil could do the trick by filling in that gap better. Kinda like how old transmission fluid keeps a trans from slipping by filling gaps, but once you change the fluid, the fluid is thinner and the gaps aren't filled, exposing a problem. That kinda thing. Or if the lifter is loosening up with age, thicker oil could help.....at least for a while.

I'd wager a guess these people who are "curing" their tick haven't actually opened up their engines to actually inspect the cam and lifters. Cause if they did I bet they wouldn't find damage to the cam or, at the most, they'd find a roller that's just a tiny bit wiggly. I've heard of people having the cam and lifters changed, still have a tick, then do the thicker oil and that cures it. There again, the new lifters they put in probably weren't machined to spec.

I'll be putting that to the test, though. I'm currently in the process of putting the engine back together so I can sell it. I'm done with Ram, for a multitude of reasons. This is just the final nail in the coffin. But I'll put the thicker oil in and you'll see.

All of it is manufacturer defect, though. Rather than squabbling over the cause or what oil to be used we should all be grabbing pitchforks and demanding Ram stand behind their product and fix this disaster.

 

[ChadAllen]

I am sorry, but you keep repeating the magic oil hypothesis and it is simply not correct. If you have a problem with improper hardening of a camshaft, and the owner like this original poster seems like a knowledgeable guy who keeps up on maintenance, so we can rule out neglect, there is No magic oil or filter that will correct the problem - the cam will fail. Respectfully, if you have ever disassembled a motor you would appreciate better the degree of strength that these components need to have to last. And while proper lubrication is critical to longevity, if the hardening on a cam Or any other component in the valvetrain if off, you are going to have a failure.

i am not trying to argue, but a tale from my youth to further illustrate: I rebuilt a 1980s BMW 5 series as my first car in the late 1980s. Among other problems, the car had a bad cam and needed a cam and rocker arms. BMW afficianados of that time always attributed these problems to poor oil change practices or to not adjusting the valves frequently enough. They didn’t want to fault BMW and all pushed Castrol as the magic oil to avoid the issue. After I had rebuilt it and had it at an HPDE a few times, I ran into An old timer BMW mechanic who wanted to talk cars. I mentioned the cam and head work I had done and he commented that BMW had a problem with improper cam hardening on the M30b32 and early b34 cams. He said the other reasons were BS, as he had replaced hundreds of them at the dealer.

If our poster has been using a good quality 5w20 or 0w20 oil changed at a reasonable interval, this would not happen to a properly hardened cam. This is a manufacturing defect, plain and simple, unless there is information we do not have thus far. Telling people to buy oil that probably costs $12 a quart is bad information and a waste of money.

For clarity: I used royal purple for most of the lifetime. Oil and filter. I know some people here claim it "doesn't have a good reputation" but that's not been my experience. Been using it in every vehicle since 2005 or so and this is the first problem I've had with parts that need oil. I did about a year or so ago, swap to pennzoil ultra platinum. Always 5w-20. That's the manufacturer recommendation for the 2019. Every oil change I reset the trip meter. When it hit 5k, oil got changed. I never went by the oil percentage gauge. Never trusted them. Going by the trip meter was something I've done since I first started driving in the mid 90s. It's a habit.

 

[silver billet]

For clarity: I used royal purple for most of the lifetime. Oil and filter. I know some people here claim it "doesn't have a good reputation" but that's not been my experience. Been using it in every vehicle since 2005 or so and this is the first problem I've had with parts that need oil. I did about a year or so ago, swap to pennzoil ultra platinum. Always 5w-20. That's the manufacturer recommendation for the 2019. Every oil change I reset the trip meter. When it hit 5k, oil got changed. I never went by the oil percentage gauge. Never trusted them. Going by the trip meter was something I've done since I first started driving in the mid 90s. It's a habit.

I'm not a fan of PUP either. Default factory oil and that's usually the oil in the sump when the lifters get fried. Not saying its the fault of the oil, just not a fan of it. Same thing with 5w-20, it doesn't have high enough HT/HS.

RP has 0 moly. That's a huge red flag. If you visit bitog (oil forum) you'll see too it's got its large share of haters for several reasons.

I disagree on your view of oil but in the end it doesn't matter. Keep in mind that Toyota and Ford have both run thinner oils and then backtracked on later years when things went south for them. The 5.7 in the 2500 actually recommends 5w-30 when towing > 8000 pounds (or in that area), that's a pretty huge indicator that most people are running oil that's too thin.

Sorry this happened to you, I get you want to move on.

 

[silver billet]

I'll be putting that to the test, though. I'm currently in the process of putting the engine back together so I can sell it. I'm done with Ram, for a multitude of reasons. This is just the final nail in the coffin. But I'll put the thicker oil in and you'll see.

It's not just the viscosity, it's the entire formula that matters. Unless you're putting in Redline 5w-30 and giving it 1500 miles of engine runtime to plate (which I doubt you are) this overnight test of yours probably won't change anything unfortunately. A few have noticed changes right away but many have had to give it time to run.

 

[silver billet]

Also as a final thought, not sure what truck you plan to get next but there are some you should probably avoid: the GM v8's are having terrible issues right now with lifters due to their DFM system, far worse than the hemi ever was.

Tundra is blowing up bearings and 100k of them just got recalled; dealer is ripping the truck apart and doing warranty work to probably every truck, I'd never let some 20 year old mechanic into my truck like that. They also have quality control issues outside of the engine, lots of die hard fans selling them (check out YT).

Your best option for a v8 other than hemi might be Ford's 5.0, but they have transmission issues. Not sure how their ecoboosts are doing these days, they have had trouble with them on and off, cam phasers, there a few years where the 5.0 had trouble as well with the cylinder liners.

Kinda have to pick your poison.

If I crashed my truck tomorrow, I'd be looking hard at GM's 6.6 in the 2500, it has no lifter issues due to not having DFM. Their 3.0 diesel in the 1500 has a good reputation to date if you don't mind small turbo diesel.

 

[MarPar]

Ooof. Im sorry for the outcome of yer tick, @ChadAllen.

I have learned quite a bit in the various threads you have posted.

Thank you man.

 

[ChadAllen]

I'm not a fan of PUP either. Default factory oil and that's usually the oil in the sump when the lifters get fried. Not saying its the fault of the oil, just not a fan of it. Same thing with 5w-20, it doesn't have high enough HT/HS.

RP has 0 moly. That's a huge red flag. If you visit bitog (oil forum) you'll see too it's got its large share of haters for several reasons.

I disagree on your view of oil but in the end it doesn't matter. Keep in mind that Toyota and Ford have both run thinner oils and then backtracked on later years when things went south for them. The 5.7 in the 2500 actually recommends 5w-30 when towing > 8000 pounds (or in that area), that's a pretty huge indicator that most people are running oil that's too thin.

Sorry this happened to you, I get you want to move on.

I don't really have an opinion on oil. Not really. RP served me well for years and years, but that doesn't mean I'm married to it. I ran a Chevy Silverado over 300k miles in 12 years of mostly city driving using it exclusively and never had an engine issue.....so that's something. But when I learn new information that it's not the best for this particular truck, well then I switch. That's what I did here. I'm not saying I know the best oil, or telling anyone what oil to use. Just stating what I did and what's worked for me, up till now

Redline isn't easy to come by where I live, so I switched to the next best available option to me: PUP.

As for the viscosity, that's a whole other debate. Bottom line on that one, though, is I used what the owners manual told me to use. If that's what was bad then that's on the manufacturer. That, again, is the point of this thread, fellas. We can argue about oil till the cows come home, but the bottom line is the manufacturer failed us and they won't stand behind their product. Period.

Yes, all vehicles have their issues. Lord knows I have no delusions that any modern Chevy is going to hold up as well as my old one.....I'm not delusional.....the difference comes down to how the manufacturer deals with their mistakes. Ram only seems to want to blame the victims (us). I can't support a company like that.

 

[ChadAllen]

Also as a final thought, not sure what truck you plan to get next but there are some you should probably avoid: the GM v8's are having terrible issues right now with lifters due to their DFM system, far worse than the hemi ever was.

Tundra is blowing up bearings and 100k of them just got recalled; dealer is ripping the truck apart and doing warranty work to probably every truck, I'd never let some 20 year old mechanic into my truck like that. They also have quality control issues outside of the engine, lots of die hard fans selling them (check out YT).

Your best option for a v8 other than hemi might be Ford's 5.0, but they have transmission issues. Not sure how their ecoboosts are doing these days, they have had trouble with them on and off, cam phasers, there a few years where the 5.0 had trouble as well with the cylinder liners.

Kinda have to pick your poison.

If I crashed my truck tomorrow, I'd be looking hard at GM's 6.6 in the 2500, it has no lifter issues due to not having DFM. Their 3.0 diesel in the 1500 has a good reputation to date if you don't mind small turbo diesel.

Appreciate your input. This Ram is the only brand new vehicle I've ever owned. I've always bought slightly used. That's probably what I am going to go back to doing. Not crazy about any of the covid era builds...or all the new engines coming out.

I'm well aware of the Tundra issue. Hyundai had the exact same issue in 2013+. Metal was potentially left in the block at manufacturing. I'm expecting to hear Toyota do what Hyundai did. They'll extend the warranty on those engines indefinitely. If the engine dies due to metal in the block, then they'll replace the engine. My wife has one of those Santa Fe. Her engine bricked at 75k. Hyundai replaced it free.

Won't affect me, though. I've looked at a few Tundra, but I would never buy a brand new, untested engine. Tundra's issues are with the new v6 turbo. If I go Tundra, I'm going with their old V8.

Truthfully, though, I likely will be getting out trucks, at least for a while. I use my truck primarily for 4wd on the soft sands of padre island. I don't do a lot of hauling construction material and when I do, I have a small trailer. My camper only weighs 3k, so I don't need the large towing capacities.

So, for my particular circumstances, I don't need a truck with 8-10k towing ability. I just need something with 4wd and enough towing for my little camper. That in mind, I'm seriously considering a toyota 4runner. Great on the sand, it can tow my camper and it'll tow my small trailer in the rare occasions I need to haul lumber.

As a bonus, the 4runner v6 has been around for a LONG time. Its super reliable. Yes, the 4runner will have problems too......but Toyota stands behind their product a LOT better than Ram, Chevy or Ford. I'm not a fan boy of any brand. But I do appreciate a company that at least tries to fix problems.

I've been in pickup trucks exclusively since 2001. Time to try something new.

 

[silver billet]

I don't really have an opinion on oil. Not really. RP served me well for years and years, but that doesn't mean I'm married to it. I ran a Chevy Silverado over 300k miles in 12 years of mostly city driving using it exclusively and never had an engine issue.....so that's something. But when I learn new information that it's not the best for this particular truck, well then I switch. That's what I did here.

Redline isn't easy to come by where I live, so I switched to the next best available option to me: PUP.

As for the viscosity, that's a whole other debate. Bottom line on that one, though, is I used what the owners manual told me to use. If that's what was bad then that's on the manufacturer. That, again, is the point of this thread, fellas. We can argue about oil till the cows come home, but the bottom line is the manufacturer failed us and they won't stand behind their product. Period.

Yes, all vehicles have their issues. Lord knows I have no delusions that any modern Chevy is going to hold up as well as my old one.....I'm not delusional.....the difference comes down to how the manufacturer deals with their mistakes. Ram only seems to want to blame the victims (us). I can't support a company like that.

Yes don't get me wrong, you shouldn't be blamed for cam/lifter failure if you followed the oil specs per the manual and changed oil even more frequently then it tells you too. I just mention the oil viscosity/formula because there are things we can do to try and mitigate the issue, that's not going to help you anymore at this point but maybe it helps some one else.

A lot of the time its dealers as well, some dealers are definitely scum and some are great. My local Ram dealer is terrible, they're not touching my truck again. I drive 40 minutes away to go to a better dealer and I've had no trouble with them but I still only used them for dealer stuff, my local mechanic is 10 times preferable; does a great job, low cost, and best of all I get to talk to the guy who is actually wrenching on the thing instead of trying to pass on my complaints to a dude behind the desk who doesn't know anything. That lack of communication between me and the person fixing it is a deal breaker so I always use my local mechanic.

I truly hope you find better luck somewhere else, but I don't think any brand is going to stand behind their junk any better. Your story is the same across different brand forums. If your new GM v8 fails outside of warranty, they're not going to help you either, and those v8s have a really high chance of failure with the DFM system.

 

[ChadAllen]

A lot of the time its dealers as well, some dealers are definitely scum and some are great. My local Ram dealer is terrible, they're not touching my truck again.

Oh man, that's a while other bag of crap. Dealers mostly all suck. Mostly. Not all. I'm talking more about recalls. Every manufacturer has released vehicles with faulty parts. It happens. The determining factor for me is how likely that manufacturer is to recall it and make it right by the customer. Some companies are more willing to do that than others. That, to me, is the mark of a company that stands by their product. Ram simply doesn't do that. My camshaft didn't fail for any other reason than manufacturing faults. Just like tons and TONS of other people over the years. Toyota would have recalled these cams years ago.

But yea, the only Ram dealer near me is garbage, too. I went in for a rear window leak (my second one). They refused to fix it under the warranty from the previous repair unless I agreed to pay for an out of warranty repair I didn't need. I declined that repair and requested only the window work. Long story short, the service manager threatened me with physical violence if I didn't approve the repair to an unrelated part. He said "you can either approve the repair order, or leave here with a limp."

I declined again, he literally threw my keys at my face and told me Ram didn't want my money or my business. Called Ram and they took the dealers side. "Well, sir, you must have done something to instigate this."

That right then and there should have been when I sold the truck. Hell, I should have filed assault charges and sued Ram. But stupidly I didn't. I've never dealt with a company so willing to throw customers away.