Harman Kardon Boomy Bass

[Sonnie]

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here... so to speak. I've read quite a bit about this issue, which seems to be a very serious issue for those who are fairly well familiar with quality sound systems in vehicles. I traded in a 2019 with the Alpine system for the 2020 with the HK system. It's insane how much better the Alpine system is, particularly in the bass department. I don't get it. I think about what Harman did with the JBL MS-8 unit a few years back... unbelievable how well designed it was for vehicle use, and they had a couple of guys that really knew what they were doing as far as improving on factory systems. Where were those guys when they designed this system.

I know some have packed the sub box full of polyfil to increase the box volume, which should help with the response... and have also used moving blankets to absorb some of the boomy 80-100Hz frequencies, but we shouldn't have to do this (I haven't done it yet). I have my bass EQ control at -9, and it's still questionable... even with Exact Audio extracted CD onto a USB thumb drive that sounded great with the Alpine system and rivaled some excellent sound quality in my upgraded systems over the years. Sure, the thumb drive is better with the HK, but having to reduce the bass to -9 also effects the mid-bass in the doors... it really degrades the overall sound, and it makes this system more or less a bona fide ripoff to many RAM owners who paid extra money for it.

I've read a few were going to try to add a capacitor to the sub to maybe cut out the frequencies above 50-60Hz, which should help. However, if it is like the sub that was in my 2019, it's a triple voice coil driver, with dual voice coils for the bass response, and a single voice coil for the ANC. If anyone has had success doing this, I'd really like to know if you were able to do it and not effect the ANC. I had to unplug the sub in my 2019 when I was using the aftermarket system, and I was not crazy about the exhaust noise, farts, etc that I had to put up with... the sub portion of the ANC really tamed that noise well.

I filed an official complaint with customer care, but we need others to do the same. They did tell me there were no updates available for my vehicle.

Regards,
Sonnie

 

[MannymanX]

So the HK bass is too much for you....
By the way, the HK sub is a single coil.
You can cut some of the frequencies but i think it will present you to some ANC problems... It's a trade, what do you prefer? Awesome bass with no extra noise or less bass and more noise...

 

[Six_Swix]

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here... so to speak. I've read quite a bit about this issue, which seems to be a very serious issue for those who are fairly well familiar with quality sound systems in vehicles. I traded in a 2019 with the Alpine system for the 2020 with the HK system. It's insane how much better the Alpine system is, particularly in the bass department. I don't get it. I think about what Harman did with the JBL MS-8 unit a few years back... unbelievable how well designed it was for vehicle use, and they had a couple of guys that really knew what they were doing as far as improving on factory systems. Where were those guys when they designed this system.

I know some have packed the sub box full of polyfil to increase the box volume, which should help with the response... and have also used moving blankets to absorb some of the boomy 80-100Hz frequencies, but we shouldn't have to do this (I haven't done it yet). I have my bass EQ control at -9, and it's still questionable... even with Exact Audio extracted CD onto a USB thumb drive that sounded great with the Alpine system and rivaled some excellent sound quality in my upgraded systems over the years. Sure, the thumb drive is better with the HK, but having to reduce the bass to -9 also effects the mid-bass in the doors... it really degrades the overall sound, and it makes this system more or less a bona fide ripoff to many RAM owners who paid extra money for it.

I've read a few were going to try to add a capacitor to the sub to maybe cut out the frequencies above 50-60Hz, which should help. However, if it is like the sub that was in my 2019, it's a triple voice coil driver, with dual voice coils for the bass response, and a single voice coil for the ANC. If anyone has had success doing this, I'd really like to know if you were able to do it and not effect the ANC. I had to unplug the sub in my 2019 when I was using the aftermarket system, and I was not crazy about the exhaust noise, farts, etc that I had to put up with... the sub portion of the ANC really tamed that noise well.

I filed an official complaint with customer care, but we need others to do the same. They did tell me there were no updates available for my vehicle.

Regards,
Sonnie

HK system not designed for bass. Designed for quality. I wanted bass which is why I got the Alpine

 

[STR]

I have the bass set to flat and it thumps, but it’s not boomy. I positioned the mids up two notches, and treble up three. Depending on the source, I’ll turn the surround on and off, and I never enable the speed sensitive volume controlI. I think the HK sounds way better than the Alpine in my Gen 4.

 

[YellowSled]

You think the 9 speaker alpine is insanely better than the HK system?

 

[Sascwatch]

There must be a lot of bad speakers in these systems, I think the HK systems sounds amazing and I have the bass at +3, mids at +1 and highs and +3. Music played over apple CarPlay sounds much better than Sirius radio. I haven’t tried any high bitrate music yet, just Apple Music.

Maybe these systems respond differently to different genres of music, I’m typically listening to rock from the 70s-80s and it sounds good, could use a bit more clarity on the highs but a dash speaker swap would fix that.

 

[Han Ridge]

I picked up my truck September of 2019 with the HK system. At that time the system had very little volume, at full volume it was loud but not as loud as you'd expect. When I took the truck in for one of the recalls they did an update but that resulted in the base being over boosted. Recently I had a gauge cluster failure and went back to the dealer. I asked if they would check the HK system again. When i got the truck back a few days ago I'd forgotten I'd ask them too look at the system but I noticed that it sound different. When I checked the radio I knew they had done an update because all the EQ’s were flat. Now when I adjust EQ the base is where it should be about two notches up. The system sounds better than it ever has, the full volume is down a bit but still acceptable.

 

[Sonnie]

Yeah... there is no way anyone that has heard even a "fairly" good system would get in my 2020 with the HK system and be able to bear the EQ bass adjustment set to flat and listen to anything much, and believe it sounds okay. The Alpine was not great by any means... I installed and MTI box with dual 10's, HAT amp, HAT speakers, miniDSP... it was one of the best sounding installs I've done of the dozen plus systems I've installed over the years. So the Alpine was not bad, but it wasn't good enough to keep me from doing the install, yet... it was better than this HK system all around... more particularly in the bass, but even the front end sounded slightly better with the Alpine.

I have not heard any other HK system besides mine... but there sure are a LOT of unhappy HK system owners. Granted, many of them may be more into the high-end audio, so they may be more peculiar about the sound than others, I dunno, but either way, anyone thinking my 2020 HK system sounds good, probably needs a new set of ears.

 

[Sonnie]

HK system not designed for bass. Designed for quality. I wanted bass which is why I got the Alpine

Bass is part of sound quality. If I measured the response in this system it would look nasty, guaranteed. I'm not looking for loud bass, which this system in my truck has way too much of around 90-120Hz... (boomy bass)... it's probably boosted 20-25dB... and obnoxious to say the least. If it was boosted that much around 30-35Hz, that would be okay and expected in a quality system (similar to a house curve). I'm looking for quality smooth bass, quality mids, quality highs, all of which a system that cost this much should have. And I know Harman very very well (we deal with these guys with equipment reviews and news articles frequently), and they make some serious high-end audio equipment (Lexicon, JBL Synthesis, etc). They apparently had a malfunction in developing this system, or a glitch that hasn't been fixed in all of the units yet. At some point in time I'll let my dealer see it they can flash it with an update, despite Ramcare telling me there are no updates available for my truck. Maybe I'll get lucky, as I really don't feel like going thru the hassles of another 4-5 day aftermarket install, which is why I got the HK system, thinking it would be better than the Alpine (and it should be).

 

[STR]

Yeah... there is no way anyone that has heard even a "fairly" good system would get in my 2020 with the HK system and be able to bear the EQ bass adjustment set to flat and listen to anything much, and believe it sounds okay. The Alpine was not great by any means... I installed and MTI box with dual 10's, HAT amp, HAT speakers, miniDSP... it was one of the best sounding installs I've done of the dozen plus systems I've installed over the years. So the Alpine was not bad, but it wasn't good enough to keep me from doing the install, yet... it was better than this HK system all around... more particularly in the bass, but even the front end sounded slightly better with the Alpine.

I have not heard any other HK system besides mine... but there sure are a LOT of unhappy HK system owners. Granted, many of them may be more into the high-end audio, so they may be more peculiar about the sound than others, I dunno, but either way, anyone thinking my 2020 HK system sounds good, probably needs a new set of ears.

Where are you getting the number of unhappy customers from? A few posts on a forum where everyone comes to complain... and most of their complaints are prior to the update(s)?

I’ve been mod-ing and working with car stereos since I was a teen, and have experience in a lot of OEM systems, including B&O, Bowers & Wilkins, Krell, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, Burmester, and Meridian, to name a few... some obviously better than others, and the HK isn’t a bad OEM system for a pick up truck. It’s certainly better than Bose... and Alpine!

Have you even attempted the update, or are you just another one who runs to a forum to complain... and talk about how adding a MTI Box, a few speakers, and HAT amp miraculously transformed your Apline into a Bentley Naim?

 

[Hrspwr88]

I agree. Since the update the HK has improved.

 

[Reverse]

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here...

I agree with your assessment: I can't stand the bass in my Limited, it is just so boomy and unrefined. We also have a 2014 Big Horn, and its bass is much more palatable.
I have played with equalizer trying to fix it, but there's just now way to tighten it up within the range of adjustment on the equalizer.

 

[Sonnie]

Where are you getting the number of unhappy customers from? A few posts on a forum where everyone comes to complain... and most of their complaints are prior to the update(s)?

I’ve been mod-ing and working with car stereos since I was a teen, and have experience in a lot of OEM systems, including B&O, Bowers & Wilkins, Krell, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, Burmester, and Meridian, to name a few... some obviously better than others, and the HK isn’t a bad OEM system for a pick up truck. It’s certainly better than Bose... and Alpine!

Have you even attempted the update, or are you just another one who runs to a forum to complain... and talk about how adding a MTI Box, a few speakers, and HAT amp miraculously transformed your Apline into a Bentley Naim?

You can be friendly on the forum... you don't have to be rude and sarcastic. I have just stated the facts of my situation... didn't mean to make anyone get defensive about their HK system. And no... I don't go to forums just to complain, but also to get help, as well as help others. I own a fairly large audio forum myself, so I am very familiar with those that complain. Quite the contrary for me... I stated the facts and my opinions looking for help. Sorry you got confused and read more into it than that. If you do a simple Google search, you'll see quite a few threads in the various forums about how bad the HK system is with the sub... before and after the updates... and quite a few others that believe the Alpine system was and is still better. AND... after discussing it with Ramcare and a couple of dealers, they have had quite a few complaints with even the 2020 models that are already supposedly updated. And they told me there was no update available, as I have the latest software. There are also quite a few guys that have added polyfil, dampened the box, added blankets and foam, etc, to tame the boominess with some success, but that does not prevent them from being unhappy about a very expensive system that does not perform as it should without having to do these things.

There was nothing miraculous about the system I installed... again, just stating facts and somewhat qualifying my ability to determine when a system is good or bad. Several of us who install car audio worked very diligently together to make our systems sound good. We credit most of it to Dirac Live and REW. Either way, I have not once suggested that the HK system in other vehicles does not sound good, especially since I have not heard any others. This is quite strange if we all have the same software and the latest update.

What I did discover this afternoon is disconnecting the subwoofer actually makes the system sound much better, and much closer to that of the Alpine... and the mid-bass might even be a little better, especially once I get the doors dampened. I was able to increase the bass from -9 up to +7 and the mid-bass came to life, and the HK system does indeed sound pretty good... shy of the lowest few octave of sub-bass due to lack of a sub. The boominess in the sub causing me to have to reduce the bass EQ to -9 took away all the mid-bass, which caused the system to sound really bad all around. it makes a lot more sense now. So... if there is an update that fixes the boominess so that the bass can be turned up, I can see where it might actually be better than the Alpine... and I can understand why others are saying it sounds good to them. They are not experiencing the boominess that many of us others are that haven't been able to get a fix for it.

I agree with your assessment: I can't stand the bass in my Limited, it is just so boomy and unrefined. We also have a 2014 Big Horn, and its bass is much more palatable.
I have played with equalizer trying to fix it, but there's just now way to tighten it up within the range of adjustment on the equalizer.

Have you spoken to any dealers about a update? Try unplugging the sub, then turn up the bass EQ adjustment and tell me what you think. Seems like the system really comes to life. Of course this is with good recorded music... the SiriusXM still sounds compressed and not good at all at higher volumes. SXM is more for low volume crusin when the wife is in the vehicle and/or when I want to listen to the news or sports talk.

 

[STR]

You can be friendly on the forum... you don't have to be rude and sarcastic.

My intentions were certainly not meant to be rude. Sarcastic? Maybe a little . Try to remember that most people will post complaints, and very few people will post positive comments. So the perception is often skewed, especially when thousands of units are being sold. I still stand by my evaluation that the HK is a very good OEM system. Hopefully you will get your issues resolved to your satisfaction

 

[Hockeygod1225]

I initially loved everything about my HK system except for the bass. I wouldn't call it necessarily boomy but it seemed underpowered as if it was struggling to keep up with the highs and mids in the system. I kept the oem sub plugged in and added 2 jl 10w6v3 subs. Now I can be cruising on the highway with my windows down and hear all my highs, mids, and bass clearly with thorough enjoyment.

 

[Sonnie]

My intentions were certainly not meant to be rude. Sarcastic? Maybe a little . Try to remember that most people will post complaints, and very few people will post positive comments. So the perception is often skewed, especially when thousands of units are being sold. I still stand by my evaluation that the HK is a very good OEM system. Hopefully you will get your issues resolved to your satisfaction

I understand... I may actually be a little on the sarcastic side as well. No doubt the forums get a bus load of complaints and issues posted, as they seem to be great "help forums". This goes back to the news groups we use to tinker in, before there were forums... then there were forums, and not a crazy number of them.

After unplugging this sub... I'm beginning to agree with you on it being a whole lot better than what I have. If the sub gets fixed, I can't help but to think it will be very good. I love the 12" display. I was hesitate about it at first, because I like my knobs, but like going from a brick phone to a flip phone to a smart phone, it's growing on me... and there are so many neat features about it.

I am very hopeful it will get resolved... or I may end up putting this MIT box back in this truck just for the subs. I'm just getting too lazy to go all in with it again, as it is very very time consuming to go the whole nine yards. The sub could be as simple as high level factory sub speaker level inputs into the amp, but I'd probably hook the PAC back up to get a flat response to the preamp inputs of the sub.

I initially loved everything about my HK system except for the bass. I wouldn't call it necessarily boomy but it seemed underpowered as if it was struggling to keep up with the highs and mids in the system. I kept the oem sub plugged in and added 2 jl 10w6v3 subs. Now I can be cruising on the highway with my windows down and hear all my highs, mids, and bass clearly with thorough enjoyment.

I've read where a couple of others have done this same thing with success. In my previous Alpine system, I was unable to do this without unplugging the factory sub, as it has triple voice coils and uses one voice coil for the ANC. If it's left connected, the ANC wreaks havoc on the audio system. I tried bypassing the ANC mics with an adapter on the amp/ANC module and the noise was unbearable. Unplugging the sub at least left part of the ANC working, but I still had some exhaust farts and rumble that was irritating if the music was not loud enough to cover it up.

 

[Hockeygod1225]

I understand... I may actually be a little on the sarcastic side as well. No doubt the forums get a bus load of complaints and issues posted, as they seem to be great "help forums". This goes back to the news groups we use to tinker in, before there were forums... then there were forums, and not a crazy number of them.

After unplugging this sub... I'm beginning to agree with you on it being a whole lot better than what I have. If the sub gets fixed, I can't help but to think it will be very good. I love the 12" display. I was hesitate about it at first, because I like my knobs, but like going from a brick phone to a flip phone to a smart phone, it's growing on me... and there are so many neat features about it.

I am very hopeful it will get resolved... or I may end up putting this MIT box back in this truck just for the subs. I'm just getting too lazy to go all in with it again, as it is very very time consuming to go the whole nine yards. The sub could be as simple as high level factory sub speaker level inputs into the amp, but I'd probably hook the PAC back up to get a flat response to the preamp inputs of the sub.


I've read where a couple of others have done this same thing with success. In my previous Alpine system, I was unable to do this without unplugging the factory sub, as it has triple voice coils and uses one voice coil for the ANC. If it's left connected, the ANC wreaks havoc on the audio system. I tried bypassing the ANC mics with an adapter on the amp/ANC module and the noise was unbearable. Unplugging the sub at least left part of the ANC working, but I still had some exhaust farts and rumble that was irritating if the music was not loud enough to cover it up.

I didn't have to unplug the sub at all and my ANC still works perfectly. I just miss having under seat storage but that's what happens when you install a dual 10" ported sub box for full size subs.

 

[Jtr]

Does anyone know the most recent EQ software version for the HK with all the "fixes"?

 

[Virgiestream]

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here... so to speak. I've read quite a bit about this issue, which seems to be a very serious issue for those who are fairly well familiar with quality sound systems in vehicles. I traded in a 2019 with the Alpine system for the 2020 with the HK system. It's insane how much better the Alpine system is, particularly in the bass department. I don't get it. I think about what Harman did with the JBL MS-8 unit a few years back... unbelievable how well designed it was for vehicle use, and they had a couple of guys that really knew what they were doing as far as improving on factory systems. Where were those guys when they designed this system.

I know some have packed the sub box full of polyfil to increase the box volume, which should help with the response... and have also used moving blankets to absorb some of the boomy 80-100Hz frequencies, but we shouldn't have to do this (I haven't done it yet). I have my bass EQ control at -9, and it's still questionable... even with Exact Audio extracted CD onto a USB thumb drive that sounded great with the Alpine system and rivaled some excellent sound quality in my upgraded systems over the years. Sure, the thumb drive is better with the HK, but having to reduce the bass to -9 also effects the mid-bass in the doors... it really degrades the overall sound, and it makes this system more or less a bona fide ripoff to many RAM owners who paid extra money for it.

I've read a few were going to try to add a capacitor to the sub to maybe cut out the frequencies above 50-60Hz, which should help. However, if it is like the sub that was in my 2019, it's a triple voice coil driver, with dual voice coils for the bass response, and a single voice coil for the ANC. If anyone has had success doing this, I'd really like to know if you were able to do it and not effect the ANC. I had to unplug the sub in my 2019 when I was using the aftermarket system, and I was not crazy about the exhaust noise, farts, etc that I had to put up with... the sub portion of the ANC really tamed that noise well.

I filed an official complaint with customer care, but we need others to do the same. They did tell me there were no updates available for my vehicle.

Regards,
Sonnie

Just my two cents worth

No data, so just going off my ears and gut feel…test drove a few Laramie models and Limited to get a few for how a diesel drove and the 3.21; 3.92 gears. One of the test vehicles had the Alpine, while the other two had the HK. The Alpine sound was full, great separation and just overall sounded great. The HK, I messed around with the equalizer sound, fade and surround sound just to try to get close to what I felt the Alpine sounded like. Ended up ordering a Limited with the ASG…did not feel the HK was worth it, plus back vented seats. $1,300 difference. If I feel different once the truck arrives, can always make improvements through after market.

Thanks
Dan

Limited, 1500, 4x4 cc, 5’ 7” box, ecodiesel, 3.21, 33 gal, anti-spin, rambox, mft, delmonico Red, indigo frost, trailer brake control - on order, will list payload once trick arrives, around 1250?

 

[jeffauclair]

Does anyone know the most recent EQ software version for the HK with all the "fixes"?

would like to know too. I had an update today from the dealer about the TSB 08-123-18. The thing is I already had that TSB done 2 months ago. They told me something about version “AG” and now being “AH”. Can a TSB be applied twice with different versions each time?