Gde tune and warranty question

[rtpassini]

Foe those of you with gde tune, have you gone in for warranty work even with a stock ecm swapped back?

Here's what my dealer said. I'm I'm pretty good with them due to having worked foe the group. I don't want to void the warranty on a brand new expensive truck on a light tune. It's not like I'm trying to get 200 hp more or deleted the def system.

"The tech said some of those tunes will set codes in other modules on the vehicle and when it comes in for warranty work we have to submit a scan report with every RO so they will see it that way."

This is what gde said
"
We have never experienced this happening on the small diesels (EcoDiesel, etc) within the FCA realm. Currently there aren’t any “detection” methods built-in to the PCM that would set a flag somewhere else.

We’ve only ever seen this done on SRT/Hellcat/etc and then also the Cummins diesels.
Also no customers have reported this happening so far and a number have been back to the dealer for non-powertrain warranty items, routine maintenance, etc."

 

[StuartV]

Also no customers have reported this happening so far and a number have been back to the dealer for non-powertrain warranty items, routine maintenance, etc."

I don't have a GDE tune, but, that last bit seems like a non-answer. The question is what would happen if it WAS a powertrain warranty issue. Not non-powertrain and not routine maintenance.

I guess if nobody with a GDE tune ever had to go in for a powertrain warranty issue, that could be a good sign....

 

[Aseras]

They can't just blanket cancel your warranty. What they do is set a flag on your car when your computer has certain values changed that are different from what they should be. That flag means to look further into the issue to see if there's something that can be used to deny warranty. If you've tuned the engine and it leaned out because of a poor tune and popped the motor and they can prove that they can deny warranty. Even if they prove that, they cannot deny you warranty work on say the seatbelts or the radio or another system that is unrelated.

This all goes back to the federal magnuson moss warranty act in the USA. It's why they cannot tie service records or require you to use the dealer for work. It's why you can use aftermarket parts to maintain your vehicle. They are legally required to prove causality, the mere existence of a change doesn't automatically void anything. Now saying that and doing it are very different and if you get into a fight, you better have deep pockets, be picking a fight on purpose and have set them up in a trap or hope they give up.

 

[rtpassini]

I don't have a GDE tune, but, that last bit seems like a non-answer. The question is what would happen if it WAS a powertrain warranty issue. Not non-powertrain and not routine maintenance.

I guess if nobody with a GDE tune ever had to go in for a powertrain warranty issue, that could be a good sign....

I agree with their statement. That little tidbit about non powertrain visit made me hesitant

 

[Jimmy07]

Foe those of you with gde tune, have you gone in for warranty work even with a stock ecm swapped back?

Here's what my dealer said. I'm I'm pretty good with them due to having worked foe the group. I don't want to void the warranty on a brand new expensive truck on a light tune. It's not like I'm trying to get 200 hp more or deleted the def system.

"The tech said some of those tunes will set codes in other modules on the vehicle and when it comes in for warranty work we have to submit a scan report with every RO so they will see it that way."

This is what gde said
"
We have never experienced this happening on the small diesels (EcoDiesel, etc) within the FCA realm. Currently there aren’t any “detection” methods built-in to the PCM that would set a flag somewhere else.

We’ve only ever seen this done on SRT/Hellcat/etc and then also the Cummins diesels.
Also no customers have reported this happening so far and a number have been back to the dealer for non-powertrain warranty items, routine maintenance, etc."

Well, if you swap your original pcm back in before you go to a dealer for warranty work, you open yourself up for their easiest way to void your entire warranty.
There is only one thing that the warranty booklet says will void your entire warranty- odometer tampering. All they have to do is look at your instrument cluster odometer, and the mileage stored in your pcm, and they won’t match.
Also, the BCM will record when an aftermarket or unlocked pcm has been used. This is AlfaOBD showing the BCM configuration when a pcm is running unlocked. Next time I get a wiTECH subscription, I can show you what the dealer tech would see:

 

[n8zcc]

I had my ECU programmed by GDE at just over 1,200 miles. I have not had to take my vehicle in for any reason and I hope that holds true.

In the past, when I've taken my truck to the dealer, the first thing they do is scan the vehicle for the purpose of identifying any software updates that may be needed. They have always advised me and I've turned down updates before simply because whatever the update was for, I wasn't having any issues with so don't break what isn't broken and I turned down the update.

The response from GDE is correct. The GDE is a set of calibrations, they do not alter the algorithms or the version of the firmware. I'd venture to say the issue of a GDE calibration, if the dealer updated your engine controller, is you would need GDE to reinstall their calibrations, a service they offer.

What Jimmy07 posted was from a RAM HD with the Cummins engine and included the optional aux switches. RAM EDs do not have the option for dual alternators as shown in the fourth line up from the bottom or the aux switches shown about halfway down.

 

[rtpassini]

Well, if you swap your original pcm back in before you go to a dealer for warranty work, you open yourself up for their easiest way to void your entire warranty.
There is only one thing that the warranty booklet says will void your entire warranty- odometer tampering. All they have to do is look at your instrument cluster odometer, and the mileage stored in your pcm, and they won’t match.
Also, the BCM will record when an aftermarket or unlocked pcm has been used. This is AlfaOBD showing the BCM configuration when a pcm is running unlocked. Next time I get a wiTECH subscription, I can show you what the dealer tech would see:
View attachment 142028

The mileage isn't stored in the ecm. So odometer doesn't change. It's also not aftermarket. I have 2 oem ecm's

 

[Jimmy07]

What Jimmy07 posted was from a RAM HD with the Cummins engine and included the optional aux switches. RAM EDs do not have the option for dual alternators as shown in the fourth line up from the bottom or the aux switches shown about halfway down.

It’s actually from a 2500 with a Hemi, and no aux switches (those values you see are the same on all ram trucks). This was after it was unlocked and the P1400 fault (aftermarket calibration detected) suppressed on the bench, but no engine parameters changed. Everything I’m seeing indicates a gen 3 ecodiesel pcm needs to be unlocked to change calibrations.

 

[Jimmy07]

The mileage isn't stored in the ecm. So odometer doesn't change. It's also not aftermarket. I have 2 oem ecm's

Oh, it most certainly is. There is even a routine in wiTECH to correct the pcm mileage if it’s been replaced. It doesn’t autocorrect to the cluster mileage, contrary to what I’ve seen people claim. It also stores the mileage reported from each of the wheel speed sensors.

 

[n8zcc]

It’s actually from a 2500 with a Hemi, and no aux switches (those values you see are the same on all ram trucks). This was after it was unlocked and the P1400 fault (aftermarket calibration detected) suppressed on the bench, but no engine parameters changed. Everything I’m seeing indicates a gen 3 ecodiesel pcm needs to be unlocked to change calibrations.

You are correct, the pcm needs to be unlocked, and flashed, then once the flash is complete and the session ends, the pcm is locked by default. GDE has the correct and proper tools to do this.

 

[Aseras]

Oh, it most certainly is. There is even a routine in wiTECH to correct the pcm mileage if it’s been replaced. It doesn’t autocorrect to the cluster mileage, contrary to what I’ve seen people claim. It also stores the mileage reported from each of the wheel speed sensors.

If odd though that if you pull the fuse for the dash cluster the mileage doesn't go up in either. But the rotations and rpm counts go up.

 

[StuartV]

Oh, it most certainly is. There is even a routine in wiTECH to correct the pcm mileage if it’s been replaced. It doesn’t autocorrect to the cluster mileage, contrary to what I’ve seen people claim. It also stores the mileage reported from each of the wheel speed sensors.

So, just for the sake of this discussion: If somebody wanted to run a GDE tune (in their 3rd Gen ED), and they had GDE clone their original PCM to a new one, they would have 2 options:

1) Load GDE tune on original PCM and run that normally. Swap to new cloned PCM (that has original, factory programming) before taking the truck for any dealer visit.

or,

2) Load GDE tune on new PCM and run that normally. Swap to original, unmodified PCM before taking the truck for any dealer visit.

Based on what you are saying, if you wanted to minimize your chance of the dealer figuring out that you had been running a GDE tune, which option is better?

I would have though option 2 was better. I.e. make sure that any time the dealer sees the truck it has the original, factory PCM.

But, from what you said, maybe #1 is better? If you go with #2, then you are saying the dealer would be able to tell that the cluster mileage and the PCM mileage are different and that would be an obvious indicator that you had been running a different PCM. With the original PCM still installed (when the dealer is looking at it), there would be no good explanation for why that would be, other than you were playing musical PCMs to hide something.

On the other hand, if you went with #1, then they can see that the cluster mileage and PCM mileage are different, but the PCM itself is no longer original. If questioned, you could say that you went on a road trip, you were in Canada, the original PCM took a crap while you were on the road, and you replaced it while you were up there. That would be a plausible explanation for why the mileage is different.

 

[Aseras]

Window tint on the front windshield and getting water/soap down there has been known to brick PCM's and require replacement.

I'm not advocating playing games, if you tune the truck you know what you are getting into and the "cost". There's a difference between running a hot tune and blowing something and running a stock tune and turning off some BS for reliability and longevity. There are a lot of design compromises on these engines to satisfy BS over the long term reliability.

If you blow it, you should pay for it. If you hydrolock it you or your insurance should pay, but if they used crap quality metals and the cam follower eats itself in half, or a valve keeper lets go, or a bearing spins, I think they should be paying for it. Those kinds of things are or at least should be never fails and no failure rate is acceptable, even in decades or hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

[StuartV]

I'm not advocating making someone else pay for something that is your fault.

What I would advocate for is protecting yourself from having a valid warranty claim denied for a reason that is convenient, but not true. I.e. "your cam follower ate itself, but you had a tune on your engine, so we are denying your warranty claim."

Sure, the Magnusson-Moss Act is there to protect you in a situation like that, but the reality is, once the manufacturer makes that decision, it's likely to cost you as much in legal fees to sue based on M-M than it would cost you to just pay for the repair yourself. Even worse, I *think* I have heard before that attorney fees are not recoverable in a M-M suit. So, even if you win and get your repair for free, you are still out all the legal fees.

In other words, in my opinion, you call it playing games and I would call it doing everything you can to protect yourself against BS.

 

[VernDiesel]

Anybody know of a powertrain failure where customer had a GDE tune and it was denied for that reason? Me neither.

If you are a Mfgr and the government makes you tune and emission control a vehicle in such a way that it is less reliable costs you warranty claims even possibly leads to premature engine failures that you as a Mfgr have to pay for. Do you look for aftermarket software when you don't have to that helps to save you big dollars in warranty claims? I see it as simply not being in the Mfgrs best interest except in a particular scenario where it could cost the Mfgr fines etc from said government.

My son has a 22 ED after its first 10k oil change he GDE tuned it. That was 30k miles ago super happy with his truck.
I have a 14 ED that was tuned at 30k miles. At 371k miles it with low coolant from a leaking EGR cooler (emissions part) overheated and pushed a head gasket.
I bought a new factory replacement engine. It was tuned from day one. Very reliable but it still cracked a head at 423k. Naturally using it to drag travel trailers daily put a lot of strain on the cooling system playing a part in their failures. Fortunately for you who have 5th gens, Ram has moved the Intercooler away from in front of the radiator so that it is no longer cooling compromised.

 

[djevox]

Anybody know of a powertrain failure where customer had a GDE tune and it was denied for that reason? Me neither.

If you are a Mfgr and the government makes you tune and emission control a vehicle in such a way that it is less reliable costs you warranty claims even possibly leads to premature engine failures that you as a Mfgr have to pay for. Do you look for aftermarket software when you don't have to that helps to save you big dollars in warranty claims? I see it as simply not being in the Mfgrs best interest except in a particular scenario where it could cost the Mfgr fines etc from said government.

My son has a 22 ED after its first 10k oil change he GDE tuned it. That was 30k miles ago super happy with his truck.
I have a 14 ED that was tuned at 30k miles. At 371k miles it with low coolant from a leaking EGR cooler (emissions part) overheated and pushed a head gasket.
I bought a new factory replacement engine. It was tuned from day one. Very reliable but it still cracked a head at 423k. Naturally using it to drag travel trailers daily put a lot of strain on the cooling system playing a part in their failures. Fortunately for you who have 5th gens, Ram has moved the Intercooler away from in front of the radiator so that it is no longer cooling compromised.

I’ve been following you for a while, and appreciate the input. What you do with these ecodiesels is impressive and shows all of us what’s possible. I think my ED’s days are numbered considering they killed the ED. I’m worried I won’t be able to get parts (like the egr/dpf/etc) when they stop support in 10 years.

 

[VernDiesel]

Yea that's fair. But 10 years is a long time off automotively in today's world and Stelantis has not cancelled the Ecodiesel. They have only declared to "cancel it" in the dramatic clickbait wording of automotive journalists for the Ram 1500. This I suspect along with soon enough the Hemi & Pentastar. For the rumored cost effective grand plan of 3 versions of one motor the coming Hurricane 3.0 liter gasser. Instead of 3 engine choices depending on your needs you will get a triplicate of choice of single turbo, single turbo plus big battery and electric motor, and twin turbo HO. Again rumor, time will tell.

In summary worrying about something that is 10 years off of some motors fate that is yet to be determined at least to my knowledge seems premature.

 

[djevox]

Yea that's fair. But 10 years is a long time off automotively in today's world and Stelantis has not cancelled the Ecodiesel. They have only declared to "cancel it" in the dramatic clickbait wording of automotive journalists for the Ram 1500. This I suspect along with soon enough the Hemi & Pentastar. For the rumored cost effective grand plan of 3 versions of one motor the coming Hurricane 3.0 liter gasser. Instead of 3 engine choices depending on your needs you will get a triplicate of choice of single turbo, single turbo plus big battery and electric motor, and twin turbo HO. Again rumor, time will tell.

In summary worrying about something that is 10 years off of some motors fate that is yet to be determined at least to my knowledge seems premature.

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

 

[Malodave]

I went in last February for unrelated warranty work, (Rear Parking Sensors and a Recall on the Rear Camera/Trailer Steering)
There was an Update to the PCM Available and the GDE tune was Overwritten. I finally got back to GDE in Sept to Reflash it.

This was after the DEF recall. Now there is the CP4 High Pressure pump Recall that I don't know if they have to update the PCM
to work with a new Pump. Parts will not be available until Q2 2023. I do have a New Spare PCM so that it can be cloned.

Malodave

 

[StuartV]

I got an oil change last week. The dealer told me about the recall. He said they get one replacement HPFP every 2 weeks. I'm on the list, so when they get to me, I'll go in for the recall.

The point is, parts are apparently available now. I may get called up for mine pretty soon, if they get the next one and whoever is on the list in front of me can't come in at that time. (no, I don't know how many are on the list in front of me at my local dealer)