Fox 2.5 DSC Suspension - A Brief Overview, Procedure, and Review of Proper Suspension Setup

[boogielander]

New Fuels/Ascents are on.

Next AlfaOBD program the Tire-OD/Speedo & TPMS Initialization (assume I'll to set TPMS since I used new metal stem ones, not Mopar)..fingers crossed

Then the OEM Mopar fender flares are all set to go on..not necessary, but I have them, and personally like them, so on they go.

Gonna call Don on Monday, Tuesday and decide if Kings or Fox PEs..leaning towards PEs at the moment..I can level lift with PEs, but the Kings will have slight rake.

View attachment 203536View attachment 203537View attachment 203538

you can crank the kings up too.
cranking the preload up (collar go down) a bit won't affect ride quality that much unless you're cranking full 3" lol

 

[Ready Go]

you can crank the kings up too.
cranking the preload up (collar go down) a bit won't affect ride quality that much unless you're cranking full 3" lol

Before swapping the new wheels/tires, I did one last measure of height (ground to fender).

I used to be 38.625" (1.625" front level) all around (RR frational higher), with a year of use..and a full tank, I was at 38.50" (1.5" front level) yesterday..that should now settle to ~39.30" with the new 285/60R20s once I drive it.

I want to raise a full inch front and rear (I have a pair of 1" rear ORP springs and a pair of 1" rear Eibach springs that are new to use for rear, so want 1" more in front to keep as close to perfect level as can be.

I was thinking that I needed 2.625" front lift to do level, but now maybe 2.5" lift would be sufficient, so Kings would work..but I Iike the fact that Foxes definitely have that wiggle room.

For giggles, I'm gonna chat with ADS about their 2.5" lift Mesa 2.5 (non-res/non-adj) set, then talk to Don about his Stage1/2 Res Kings and try to decide if Kings or Fox PEs.

Tomorrow, I'm gonna test drive it on my basic Eibach Pro-Truck struts just to see what difference the extra 12lbs/corner does to the ride.

 

[Ready Go]

I got my first drive yesterday with the new Fuels/Ascents.

I set the Tire OD to 2585mm on AlfaOBD and the Speedo (and Shift Points) is spot-on to the GPS speed on my JBV1 Radar App. ABS Initiliaztion was greyed-out and not an option to reset. No codes, warning lights, or program changes were present..all working as should.

I set the tire psi to 39.0 before installing the wheels. It took about 5mins/5miles for the new metal-stemed TPMS Direct valve stems to kick in on the dash..and they were already to 41psi each. After a 45 mile drive yesterday, all of them reached 44 Hot. After cooling down overnight, this morning they were at 39.5 each. My OEM psi was 39 and that converts to a recommended 40 for an LT285/60R20, but I felt that yesterday's 39.0/39.5 seemed a bit high actually, so I aired them down to 38.1 for my next trial..I may try 37 and even 40 to try and dial in the best psi with my current suspension.

To which, I found out what I thought I would...my Eibach Pro-Truck struts/shocks are adequate on smooth-ish roads still, but the slight jounce and secondary rebound kick, that was small with OEM wheels on large bumps & small washboard-type road cracks/bumps, became more pronounced from the extra 12lbs/corner..I will have to move to Fox PEs or Kings for sure.

The Bridgestone Dueler AT Ascents seem very smooth themselves overall, and handling/cornering didn't diminish at all, but my Eibachs are not up to the task. My only slight complaint with the Ascents (other than the 12lbs) is that they aren't quite as quiet as I'd hoped they'd be..they have a faint, but constant and distinct, typical AT tread sound that is mostly above 45mph..not bad, but I noticed my wife turn the HK volume up 1-2 notches. This are 16/32 ATs compared to OEM 10/32 HTs, so expected.

Calling Don about Thurn Kings today, but back to thinking Fox PEs may be better for me after reading an Accutune article on Kings last night (see link). I'll pick his brain on Thuren's CAs and bars also. I do feel the Delrin-bushed "Johnny Joints" would improve fluidity and suspension movement, but want to ask him about any NVH increases or issues. Some of my Eibach's inadequatesy, may be from the OEM CAs & bars and their rubber bushings. Core4x4 also has complete Rear CA/Bar/Endlink Pkg that looks solid also.

How King Compression Adjusters Work

We show you how the adjusters work so you can decide if they're right for you.

accutuneoffroad.com

 

[mplaramie]

I got my first drive yesterday with the new Fuels/Ascents.

I set the Tire OD to 2585mm on AlfaOBD and the Speedo (and Shift Points) is spot-on to the GPS speed on my JBV1 Radar App. ABS Initiliaztion was greyed-out and not an option to reset. No codes, warning lights, or program changes were present..all working as should.

I set the tire psi to 39.0 before installing the wheels. It took about 5mins/5miles for the new metal-stemed TPMS Direct valve stems to kick in on the dash..and they were already to 41psi each. After a 45 mile drive yesterday, all of them reached 44 Hot. After cooling down overnight, this morning they were at 39.5 each. My OEM psi was 39 and that converts to a recommended 40 for an LT285/60R20, but I felt that yesterday's 39.0/39.5 seemed a bit high actually, so I aired them down to 38.1 for my next trial..I may try 37 and even 40 to try and dial in the best psi with my current suspension.

To which, I found out what I thought I would...my Eibach Pro-Truck struts/shocks are adequate on smooth-ish roads still, but the slight jounce and secondary rebound kick, that was small with OEM wheels on large bumps & small washboard-type road cracks/bumps, became more pronounced from the extra 12lbs/corner..I will have to move to Fox PEs or Kings for sure.

The Bridgestone Dueler AT Ascents seem very smooth themselves overall, and handling/cornering didn't diminish at all, but my Eibachs are not up to the task. My only slight complaint with the Ascents (other than the 12lbs) is that they aren't quite as quiet as I'd hoped they'd be..they have a faint, but constant and distinct, typical AT tread sound that is mostly above 45mph..not bad, but I noticed my wife turn the HK volume up 1-2 notches. This are 16/32 ATs compared to OEM 10/32 HTs, so expected.

Calling Don about Thurn Kings today, but back to thinking Fox PEs may be better for me after reading an Accutune article on Kings last night (see link). I'll pick his brain on Thuren's CAs and bars also. I do feel the Delrin-bushed "Johnny Joints" would improve fluidity and suspension movement, but want to ask him about any NVH increases or issues. Some of my Eibach's inadequatesy, may be from the OEM CAs & bars and their rubber bushings. Core4x4 also has complete Rear CA/Bar/Endlink Pkg that looks solid also.

How King Compression Adjusters Work

We show you how the adjusters work so you can decide if they're right for you.

accutuneoffroad.com

Great detail. Most people dont understand that yes both Eibach and Bills (5100) are good options for basic leveling and looks vs pucks. When you start adding weight with the wheels/tire, etc, they dont do a great job. I found the same with ICON.

My 2cents would be, get the Fox PE unless you do a good amount of "real" off roading and really need Kings. Take the money saved and buy the Core 4x4 CA's with the Johnny Joints. Trail Series i think.... I have them with the trackbar and end links and they've been nice.

 

[Ready Go]

Great detail. Most people dont understand that yes both Eibach and Bills (5100) are good options for basic leveling and looks vs pucks. When you start adding weight with the wheels/tire, etc, they dont do a great job. I found the same with ICON.

My 2cents would be, get the Fox PE unless you do a good amount of "real" off roading and really need Kings. Take the money saved and buy the Core 4x4 CA's with the Johnny Joints. Trail Series i think.... I have them with the trackbar and end links and they've been nice.

I'm strongly leaning towards your advice!

You & others have good data on setting the adjusters..and that helps for sure.

I'm thinking Fox PEs, Thuren F-UCAs, and then Thuren or Core4x4 Rear suspension parts (I like the double JJ ones for unhindered movement).

Do you have double or Poly & JJ??
Any vibration, etc that you've noticed with the Core parts??
How much lift have you done with your Fox/springs??

I was planning to go about 2.625" (1" over my current setup) so that I could either use my Rear ORP 1" or Rear Eibach 1" springs..and then need about 2.625" in front to stay level.

I could use a pair of McBay 1/2" rear billet spring spacers that I have, and keep my rear OEM springs in place and then just set the front Fox PEs (or Kings) to 2.125-2.25" lift. I am a bit skittish of preloading the front Foxs to 2.625" as the spring might then be giving a harsher ride than if not preloaded as much at 2.125"..any thoughts anyone??

Thanks for all the advice!!

 

[CalvinC]

Before swapping the new wheels/tires, I did one last measure of height (ground to fender).

I used to be 38.625" (1.625" front level) all around (RR frational higher), with a year of use..and a full tank, I was at 38.50" (1.5" front level) yesterday..that should now settle to ~39.30" with the new 285/60R20s once I drive it.

I want to raise a full inch front and rear (I have a pair of 1" rear ORP springs and a pair of 1" rear Eibach springs that are new to use for rear, so want 1" more in front to keep as close to perfect level as can be.

I was thinking that I needed 2.625" front lift to do level, but now maybe 2.5" lift would be sufficient, so Kings would work..but I Iike the fact that Foxes definitely have that wiggle room.

For giggles, I'm gonna chat with ADS about their 2.5" lift Mesa 2.5 (non-res/non-adj) set, then talk to Don about his Stage1/2 Res Kings and try to decide if Kings or Fox PEs.

Tomorrow, I'm gonna test drive it on my basic Eibach Pro-Truck struts just to see what difference the extra 12lbs/corner does to the ride.

Agreed, 2.0” shocks are mainly for looks - gain height but maintain or slightly improve the on road ride in the process.

Does not make for a Raptor off road, but certainly no worse than stock.

Still much better than oem shocks in handling additional unsprung weight, especially when compromised by a puck spacer.

 

[mplaramie]

I'm strongly leaning towards your advice!

You & others have good data on setting the adjusters..and that helps for sure.

I'm thinking Fox PEs, Thuren F-UCAs, and then Thuren or Core4x4 Rear suspension parts (I like the double JJ ones for unhindered movement).

Do you have double or Poly & JJ??
Any vibration, etc that you've noticed with the Core parts??
How much lift have you done with your Fox/springs??

I was planning to go about 2.625" (1" over my current setup) so that I could either use my Rear ORP 1" or Rear Eibach 1" springs..and then need about 2.625" in front to stay level.

I could use a pair of McBay 1/2" rear billet spring spacers that I have, and keep my rear OEM springs in place and then just set the front Fox PEs (or Kings) to 2.125-2.25" lift. I am a bit skittish of preloading the front Foxs to 2.625" as the spring might then be giving a harsher ride than if not preloaded as much at 2.125"..any thoughts anyone??

Thanks for all the advice!!

I went the simple route and did the BDS 3" kit with the SuspensionMaxx front end links, Core 4x4 jj and poly rear, metalcloak bump stops and a Hellwig 7793 on the current my24 Ram. Don't do any off roading. Just some gravel roads and camping trails very rarely. Thought about Carli but was scared of the new shocks not being proven and I liked the Fox PE adjustability.

Quick note, when I originally installed the Core 4x4 CA's, Trackbar, end links, they were backwards. Once i changed to have the poly at frame, it made a difference.

The Fox PE gave me about 2.8" front and the springs settled just under 1.5". My Ram has about 3/4" rake which works for me. Dead level can make our trucks look nose high.

 

[Ready Go]

I went the simple route and did the BDS 3" kit with the SuspensionMaxx front end links, Core 4x4 jj and poly rear, metalcloak bump stops and a Hellwig 7793 on the current my24 Ram. Don't do any off roading. Just some gravel roads and camping trails very rarely. Thought about Carli but was scared of the new shocks not being proven and I liked the Fox PE adjustability.

Quick note, when I originally installed the Core 4x4 CA's, Trackbar, end links, they were backwards. Once i changed to have the poly at frame, it made a difference.

The Fox PE gave me about 2.8" front and the springs settled just under 1.5". My Ram has about 3/4" rake which works for me. Dead level can make our trucks look nose high.

SUPER apprecuate that feedback!!!
Looks AWESOME!!!

 

[boogielander]

just one thing:
when both Core and Thuren both make arms, I'd go with Thuren lol that's just me though... and i'm still rocking stock rear arms and bar.
though can't really go wrong with Core but to me it's better just to keep it all the same

 

[boogielander]

oh and I'm running 35psi cold 37-38 hot on F rated 35s. Wildpeak AT3W

 

[Ready Go]

just one thing:
when both Core and Thuren both make arms, I'd go with Thuren lol that's just me though... and i'm still rocking stock rear arms and bar.
though can't really go wrong with Core but to me it's better just to keep it all the same

I spoke with Zeb at Thuren yesterday, and he enlightened me a bit...Thuren's CA joints (F&R) use a metal ball with a special durometer 2-piece Poly cup. That joint has minimal "drag" and moves freely, while the poly keeps NVH close to stock. Their rear swaybar endlinks use Energy Suspension Poly balls with Thuren's machined steel sleeves..again, free moving without NVH. Their panhard bar uses machined Delrin bushings with pressed-fit sleeves..Zeb says they want zero deflection through the panhard bar, and full smooth movement, so Delrin bushings on both ends.

This info definitely swayed me to go with Thuren suspension pieces and I have an order in my Cart waiting on the shocks decision. I do like the Core4x4 parts a lot also, but Zeb had all the right answers, so Thuren for the win!

I discussed the Kings briefly with Zeb (they are 2-3 month backorder) and he seemed confident that Stage-1 Kings with Adjusters could work for me, but said Don does all the King orders and emailing him info is the best start. I asked if they come standard with 500PPI or 600PPI CO springs (I've seen order option for either on Accutune or Shock Surplus, I forget) and he said Don would know. I asked if Eibach 450PPI or 500PPI springs could be swapped in, and again he said Don will be able to answer that.

@boogielander I believe you mentioned in your build specs that Fox PEs come with 450PPI CO springs??
I remeber that Shock Surplus used to offer Fox PEs that had spring options..Eibach 450, 500, 550, 600, etc..but they don't show that on their site anymore.

I feel like any CO with a 600PPI spring is going to be "over" sprung for my needs..I'd prefer a softer spring like a 450 or 500..so if King is 600 and Thuren can't swap, and if Fox is 450..that would sway me to the Fox PEs.

Oh, I did also ask Zeb about lift on Kings. I've been thinking that on Kings, I'd want to stay under the 2.5" max lift to keep ride comfort the best, so maybe only go ~1/2" more (2.125-2.25") than I have now (1.5-1.625"). I'd have to refigure how to do 1/2" rear lift..easiest would be 1/2" billet spacers I have on the shelf..not crazy about it, but I've done it before. If I knew Carli rear springs were 1/2" as they say, I'd do that. Foxs are easier, 2.5" lift is middle of their range whereas it's top of Kings range. I have new rear 1" ORPs and 1" Eibachs that I could use with Foxs at ~2.5" lift.

Thuren suspension with Fox PEs is probably the easiest setup for me, but I do love suspension challenges!

One thing I have no idea about is adjuster setting on Kings. You all have given me great data on your setting for L/H, but Kings are completely different, especially if custom setup by Thuren..an unknown for sure. I can't afford another expensive mistake (I've mentioned the whole painted wheel, caps, flares incident..cost me $1750 to correct it all..plus the $600 I couldn't get back!!

I'll be interested in what Don has to say, but also much appreciate the advice here! My email to Don said, "I'm building a poser that looks offroad, but will be all onroad mainly, and everthing I'm doing is for maximum comfort". I often feel like Wisconsin roads are "asphalt offroads" though!

 

[boogielander]

I spoke with Zeb at Thuren yesterday, and he enlightened me a bit...Thuren's CA joints (F&R) use a metal ball with a special durometer 2-piece Poly cup. That joint has minimal "drag" and moves freely, while the poly keeps NVH close to stock. Their rear swaybar endlinks use Energy Suspension Poly balls with Thuren's machined steel sleeves..again, free moving without NVH. Their panhard bar uses machined Delrin bushings with pressed-fit sleeves..Zeb says they want zero deflection through the panhard bar, and full smooth movement, so Delrin bushings on both ends.

This info definitely swayed me to go with Thuren suspension pieces and I have an order in my Cart waiting on the shocks decision. I do like the Core4x4 parts a lot also, but Zeb had all the right answers, so Thuren for the win!

I discussed the Kings briefly with Zeb (they are 2-3 month backorder) and he seemed confident that Stage-1 Kings with Adjusters could work for me, but said Don does all the King orders and emailing him info is the best start. I asked if they come standard with 500PPI or 600PPI CO springs (I've seen order option for either on Accutune or Shock Surplus, I forget) and he said Don would know. I asked if Eibach 450PPI or 500PPI springs could be swapped in, and again he said Don will be able to answer that.

@boogielander I believe you mentioned in your build specs that Fox PEs come with 450PPI CO springs??
I remeber that Shock Surplus used to offer Fox PEs that had spring options..Eibach 450, 500, 550, 600, etc..but they don't show that on their site anymore.

I feel like any CO with a 600PPI spring is going to be "over" sprung for my needs..I'd prefer a softer spring like a 450 or 500..so if King is 600 and Thuren can't swap, and if Fox is 450..that would sway me to the Fox PEs.

Oh, I did also ask Zeb about lift on Kings. I've been thinking that on Kings, I'd want to stay under the 2.5" max lift to keep ride comfort the best, so maybe only go ~1/2" more (2.125-2.25") than I have now (1.5-1.625"). I'd have to refigure how to do 1/2" rear lift..easiest would be 1/2" billet spacers I have on the shelf..not crazy about it, but I've done it before. If I knew Carli rear springs were 1/2" as they say, I'd do that. Foxs are easier, 2.5" lift is middle of their range whereas it's top of Kings range. I have new rear 1" ORPs and 1" Eibachs that I could use with Foxs at ~2.5" lift.

Thuren suspension with Fox PEs is probably the easiest setup for me, but I do love suspension challenges!

One thing I have no idea about is adjuster setting on Kings. You all have given me great data on your setting for L/H, but Kings are completely different, especially if custom setup by Thuren..an unknown for sure. I can't afford another expensive mistake (I've mentioned the whole painted wheel, caps, flares incident..cost me $1750 to correct it all..plus the $600 I couldn't get back!!

I'll be interested in what Don has to say, but also much appreciate the advice here! My email to Don said, "I'm building a poser that looks offroad, but will be all onroad mainly, and everthing I'm doing is for maximum comfort". I often feel like Wisconsin roads are "asphalt offroads" though!

yeap fox PE comes with 450lb. After doing the swap I see why they are not offered/ advertised on the website anymore becuase it is legit a pain in the as* to do.
for the king questions just wait and see what Don says. I mean, even though you're building a poser but with all the technical questions I'm sure he'll be happy to help and explain.

 

[Ready Go]

yeap fox PE comes with 450lb. After doing the swap I see why they are not offered/ advertised on the website anymore becuase it is legit a pain in the as* to do.
for the king questions just wait and see what Don says. I mean, even though you're building a poser but with all the technical questions I'm sure he'll be happy to help and explain.

I did hear back from Don..and am waiting to hear back on follow up questions I have....

I asked if the Thuren suspension (CAs, etc) would actually be beneficial for what I'm looking for..I believe they should remove the torsional and stretch feeling from the OEM rubber bushings.

Also, if he had a recomendation of strut/shock for what I'm trying to acheive..I asked for clarification on his Fox comment.

His comments on building Thuren Kings for me were honest and appreciated..he didn't exactly turn me down, but also didn't say he could, so Fox probably is best for me. Carli Commuter maybe is a decent option, but the Fox DSC Adjustments give much more flexibility and chance for success.

I post up any followup comments from Don.