EcoDiesels selling for TRX prices

[silver billet]

What swayed me away from moving up to the Cummins?

1. Prices are insane. 4 year old trucks with 100k on the clock are $45,000. New ones lease like s*** compared to a half ton, with monthly payments that are literally double.

2. 5'7" box not available, which means I'd never be able to use my residential garage ever again.

3. Fuel mileage is identical to a 6.4L Hemi while towing, and is only 3 MPG higher when unloaded. And compared to EcoDiesel I'd lose a solid 5-6 MPG in typical daily driving.

4. Washboard ride quality.

5. Payload is only 400 lbs. greater than a Gladiator/Ram 1500, unless you go Ram 3500 and then every one in stock is a dually.

6. Maintenance intervals are even more expensive than the EcoD, if that were possible. More oil, double the fuel filters, etc.

So I think I'll stick with the EcoD trucks. Tunes are coming out this year. IF we can get close to 600 lb/ft of torque at the crank, which is certainly within the realm of possibility, then we'll have the same power to weight ratio as a stock Cummins truck, but in a package that's garagable, parkable, and a lot more fun to daily drive.

There is no way a hemi gets same MPG as cummins, either unloaded or not. People tend to gloss over the differences to suit their narrative, because what's 1 or 2 mpg difference; but every MPG difference is extremely significant. If you tow with a hemi and get 9 MPG, and tow with a cummins and get 12 MPG, that looks tiny until you turn that into a percent and realize the difference is 20% to 25%.

For payload, it is quite low on a 2500/cummins vs a 2500/hemi, but you can find many cummins north of 2000 (especially in tradesman/bighorn trims) and also keep in mind that 100 pounds overloaded on a gladiator is a far bigger problem than overloading a 2500 by 100 pounds.

Gladiator cannot pull 17000 pounds (what the 2500/cummins can pull) no matter how much you tune that ED.

 

[WXman]

There is no way a hemi gets same MPG as cummins, either unloaded or not. People tend to gloss over the differences to suit their narrative, because what's 1 or 2 mpg difference; but every MPG difference is extremely significant. If you tow with a hemi and get 9 MPG, and tow with a cummins and get 12 MPG, that looks tiny until you turn that into a percent and realize the difference is 20% to 25%.

For payload, it is quite low on a 2500/cummins vs a 2500/hemi, but you can find many cummins north of 2000 (especially in tradesman/bighorn trims) and also keep in mind that 100 pounds overloaded on a gladiator is a far bigger problem than overloading a 2500 by 100 pounds.

Gladiator cannot pull 17000 pounds (what the 2500/cummins can pull) no matter how much you tune that ED.

Oh it's true. There are millions of combined miles of real owner data out there. Hemi 8-10 towing, Cummins 9-10 towing. It's a wash, unless you factor in that diesel fuel costs more in most of the country in which case Cummins loses. When unloaded, all the data is dead nuts consistent. Hemi is at 12 MPG, Cummins is at 15.5. Again, factor in fuel costs, maintenance costs, etc. and the Cummins is a wash. IF we then factor in the $9k upcharge for the option, the Cummins ends up being more expensive monthly over a 10 year term.

I don't follow on payload. ALL of these trucks are rated using the SAE J2807 method. They're proven and tested safe at published specs. 100 lbs. over on a Gladiator and 100 lbs. over on a Ram 2500 are the same.

Thankfully, I don't need to tow 17,000 lbs. so that last part doesn't apply to me.

As far as your earlier post... believe it or not dealers ARE still discounting new trucks. I got quoted invoice pricing on everything I've looked at so far. But, there is almost a guarantee that 2022 models will go up in base price due to costs of steel and computer chips, so ordering a new truck right now while new prices are the same but used prices are sky high is the wise thing to do if a guy is leaning that direction. Six months from now tables will turn.

 

[silver billet]

Oh it's true. There are millions of combined miles of real owner data out there. Hemi 8-10 towing, Cummins 9-10 towing. It's a wash, unless you factor in that diesel fuel costs more in most of the country in which case Cummins loses. When unloaded, all the data is dead nuts consistent. Hemi is at 12 MPG, Cummins is at 15.5. Again, factor in fuel costs, maintenance costs, etc. and the Cummins is a wash. IF we then factor in the $9k upcharge for the option, the Cummins ends up being more expensive monthly over a 10 year term.

I don't follow on payload. ALL of these trucks are rated using the SAE J2807 method. They're proven and tested safe at published specs. 100 lbs. over on a Gladiator and 100 lbs. over on a Ram 2500 are the same.

Thankfully, I don't need to tow 17,000 lbs. so that last part doesn't apply to me.

As far as your earlier post... believe it or not dealers ARE still discounting new trucks. I got quoted invoice pricing on everything I've looked at so far. But, there is almost a guarantee that 2022 models will go up in base price due to costs of steel and computer chips, so ordering a new truck right now while new prices are the same but used prices are sky high is the wise thing to do if a guy is leaning that direction. Six months from now tables will turn.

There is no way the difference, towing the same trailer, is only 1 to 2 mpg. That's some very selective data. I'm going to need some evidence on this; links to threads or youtube videos etc. I've seen closer to 4 to 5 mpg difference, even more if you delete/tune the diesel. But again, remember that even 2 MPG at that point is 20% difference. How much driving do you intend? Hauling an RV once a summer, agreed, never make that back. If you're on the road a lot, that 20% will add up fast.

Diesel is only more expensive than gas in some areas. For many (myself) its the otherway around. Most often Hemi is cheaper all around no doubt about it, but it really depends on where you live and how long you keep the truck and how often you drive it.

What I was talking about with payload, is that 100 pounds over in a gladiator is far worse off situation to be in, than being 100 pounds over in a 2500. It's not just the absolute number that matter (100 pounds), it's also relative to what the truck is actually capable of handling. Your margin for problems is far less in a gladiator, than it is in a 2500.

Extreme example to illustrate the point; lets say you own a civic with 600 pounds of payload, then you dump in 100 pounds extra over that. Not good. Now lets say you have a flatbed trailer that is rated to haul 30000 pounds, and you go 100 pounds over. Which is worse? The civic, obviously, the civic is going over its payload by a huge percentage, the flatbed won't even know the extra 100 pounds is there. Same idea with 2500. It's far more capable and heavy duty right from the start.

 

[grimreefer]

The dealer I bought from in Orlando only has ecodiesel Limiteds right now. They're going for about $70K with MSRP''s of $74K to $75K. Not much to be had in the other trim levels with the diesel, though.