DT Acceleration Slow Compared to DS

[HSKR R/T]

Wow, your 22 Limited is only 6300lbs?. My door sticker says 7100lbs GVWR !
I dont remember what my Laramie weighed, but I routinely had 4 big guys, 4 sets of golf clubs and 4 overnight bags in my Laramie, and it didnt even seem to care. The 24 feels like its towing that Laramie with just my fat butt in it
Im sure the pedal fly by wire system is tapered towards economy, yet another failed attempt at such.
Ill try the relearn and premium gas with a heavier foot, and see what happens.
Im really hoping it has some built in limitation until a certain mileage is hit, like you say !

You do realize gvwr is gross vehicle weight with full payload. Not curb weight

 

[Darksteel165]

Wow, your 22 Limited is only 6300lbs?. My door sticker says 7100lbs GVWR !
I dont remember what my Laramie weighed, but I routinely had 4 big guys, 4 sets of golf clubs and 4 overnight bags in my Laramie, and it didnt even seem to care. The 24 feels like its towing that Laramie with just my fat butt in it
Im sure the pedal fly by wire system is tapered towards economy, yet another failed attempt at such.
Ill try the relearn and premium gas with a heavier foot, and see what happens.
Im really hoping it has some built in limitation until a certain mileage is hit, like you say !

You do realize gvwr is gross vehicle weight with full payload. Not curb weight

^This lol
It confused me as first as my previous cars listed the curb weight.
I want to say some Tradesmen and Bighorn come in around 5300 lbs from the factory.
An older not optioned out Laramie likely could too.

 

[Scram1500]

^This lol
It confused me as first as my previous cars listed the curb weight.
I want to say some Tradesmen and Bighorn come in around 5300 lbs from the factory.
An older not optioned out Laramie likely could too.

My Bighorn is 5306 from the factory. Last time it got weighed with myself and stuff that's been added over the years it came in at 5740

 

[Kiwiaudio]

You do realize gvwr is gross vehicle weight with full payload. Not curb weight

Nope, i didnt know that. sorry.
So i guess i still dont know what it weighs then.
I know there are posts about this elsewhere on the forum so i should probably go look there, but the tire sticker on the door piller says a max load of 1189, so it weighs 5911 ?

 

[Darksteel165]

Nope, i didnt know that. sorry.
So i guess i still dont know what it weighs then.
I know there are posts about this elsewhere on the forum so i should probably go look there, but the tire sticker says a max load of 1189, so it weighs 5911 ?

This is correct. That was weight as it left the factory.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Nope, i didnt know that. sorry.
So i guess i still dont know what it weighs then.
I know there are posts about this elsewhere on the forum so i should probably go look there, but the tire sticker on the door piller says a max load of 1189, so it weighs 5911 ?

Yes, you got it. Subtract max load from GVWR to get your vehicle weight.

 

[Kiwiaudio]

Got it, Thanks guys.
Now i need to root around and find what my old Laramie might have been
Found a chart listing the 2014 Laramie with my drivetrain etc. listing GVWR as 6900, payload as 1360, so actual weight 5540 ! So 371 lighter than my Limited.

 

[Dewey]

8-9 months later Brandon, how do you feel about it now?
My situation is a lot like yours and ive just read all 6 pages of this thread, hoping to learn something that might help.
My 24 Limited is a great deal slower at every facet of acceleration, than my 14 Laramie, and thirstier too. Same drivetrain with the exception of etorque and all the techy stuff. I loved the minimal throttle travel needed to get the 14 to haul ***. By comparison, im pushing the pedal on the 24 far further and although its revving, the overall sensation is that im pulling twice as much weight.
Just turned over 2500 miles, so im trying to not be too demanding of it, but shes gotta wake up soon.
Im about to do the battery disconnect, throttle relearn thing - does that really work?
Next fill up will be premium to see if that makes it respond better.

I agree with everything you mentioned and posted the same earlier in this thread. My 22 Bighorn is still slower than my 2013 and 2017 Laramie’s which were much heavier especially with toppers on them.

My 22 was really bad the first few thousand miles but then woke up a little bit but still nowhere near my non-Etorque trucks.

 

[Darksteel165]

So I found something interesting on my truck yesterday while testing.
I will post pictures later but when I had a "throttle lag" my truck dropped into a gear 0. I think etorque taking the truck out of gear even when you disable auto start/stop it's still doing the same thing just not turning off the engine and also not giving you the rolling start assist.
At first I thought it was crazy and no way that could actually be the case, but then I did the same kind of turn normally with lag popping into gear 0 per my tuners logs, then did it in manual shifting mode and it stayed in gear 1.
The only other time I see gear 0 was when I went from park (gear 13) to drive it would go into gear 0, then gear 1 a few moments after.
Someone made a claim like this but talked about disconnecting the power train and everyone dismissed it but maybe he's onto something...

I wonder if my truck will run if I flash a TCM file from a non-etorque truck on my etorque truck and I can see if there is still that delay, will likely throw engine codes but would be an interesting test if I can pull it off.
I will post pictures of this from my logging software later on.

 

[DEG]

My 22 Bighorn is still slower than my 2013 and 2017 Laramie’s which were much heavier especially with toppers on them.

Yes, my 23 is noticeably slower than my 2012 Big Horn and 2017 Laramie, but both of my previous trucks were quad cabs vs current crew cab so I suspect they were significantly lighter. I wish they made the limited in quad cab as I think it looks much sportier and I no longer haul kids around.

 

[Darksteel165]

I asked the person doing my tune if he has ever seen this before and he says he has not.
He said typically he would think it's an incorrect PID or the transmissions is going into neutral or "an eTorque thing".
I know it's the correct PID, and the transmission going into neutral could also be an eTorque thing

So this is from my truck in park to driving.
Check out the red line which is gear number.
#13 is in park, no idea what #0 is and it only shows up when going form park to drive, and then at a rolling stop which results in a 1.3 second delay




Stopping to turn left, rolling stop. at 6 MPG transmission goes from gear 3 to "gear 0" with my foot off the gas


Now going 4 mpg, still in gear 0

2.5 mpg still gear 0

Finally not in gear 1 back in first, after a delay.



Now these pictures are from when I was manually shifting (not gear limit)
I get it into first gear as I am slowing down and then turn right keeping it in first, I notice a VERY small amount of lag nothing like when it is in automatic and as we can see it stays in gear 1 not gear 0 and there is a smooth throttle blade position % and the speed is more linear unlike the hump when in automatic drive.





I am going to do some more logging\testing and let eTorque operate and see if the trans is going into this gear 0 when the engine shuts off. Would be nice if the dealership actually knew how these damn trucks worked to be able to work on them but it's a god damned black box.

If anyone has any ideas or things to add or test please let me know. I know i'm not the only one having this problem.

 

[HSKR R/T]

I asked the person doing my tune if he has ever seen this before and he says he has not.
He said typically he would think it's an incorrect PID or the transmissions is going into neutral or "an eTorque thing".
I know it's the correct PID, and the transmission going into neutral could also be an eTorque thing

So this is from my truck in park to driving.
Check out the red line which is gear number.
#13 is in park, no idea what #0 is and it only shows up when going form park to drive, and then at a rolling stop which results in a 1.3 second delay
View attachment 182471
View attachment 182472
View attachment 182473

Stopping to turn left, rolling stop. at 6 MPG transmission goes from gear 3 to "gear 0" with my foot off the gas
View attachment 182474

Now going 4 mpg, still in gear 0
View attachment 182475
2.5 mpg still gear 0
View attachment 182476
Finally not in gear 1 back in first, after a delay.
View attachment 182477


Now these pictures are from when I was manually shifting (not gear limit)
I get it into first gear as I am slowing down and then turn right keeping it in first, I notice a VERY small amount of lag nothing like when it is in automatic and as we can see it stays in gear 1 not gear 0 and there is a smooth throttle blade position % and the speed is more linear unlike the hump when in automatic drive.
View attachment 182478
View attachment 182479
View attachment 182480


I am going to do some more logging\testing and let eTorque operate and see if the trans is going into this gear 0 when the engine shuts off. Would be nice if the dealership actually knew how these damn trucks worked to be able to work on them but it's a god damned black box.

If anyone has any ideas or things to add or test please let me know. I know i'm not the only one having this problem.

That's interesting. Even with etorque motor active and moving the truck, the transmission has to be in some sort of gear to transfer the engine rotation to the wheels.

 

[Darksteel165]

That's interesting. Even with etorque motor active and moving the truck, the transmission has to be in some sort of gear to transfer the engine rotation to the wheels.

I didn't have auto start-stop even turned on for any of those logs, but yes I agree.

I'm going to do some testing with it on and see what it does.
I wonder if i'm getting all the downsides of auto start-stop without the upsides since I don't let it turn the engine off LOL.
There's no way right?

 

[Darksteel165]

So I did a little more testing while I was driving today.

Here is what the logs look like for a normal stop with eTorque (I let eTorque engage while stopped for 5 seconds then went, I felt no delay).
It says it went into gear 0 while coming to a stop, but then went back into first gear once I hit 0 mph. So the transmission is going into neutral while slowing to a stop and then once stopped it's going back into first gear to be ready to move?
It looks like it's doing something funky with the Throttle Blade position while stopped too, I only had my foot on the break since the start of these pictures until I removed my foot to hit the accelerator pedal. Maybe that is a feature of eTorque so when it starts it already has the correct position to not stall out?

Does that make sense from a mechanic standpoint? I don't know how transmissions work.






These are logs with cityish driving in manual mode. I started logging in park, shifted to drive gave it a moment (no gas) and upshifted to engage manual mode.

As we can see it only ever went into the gear I selects, and never hits a gear 0 except when I shift out of park before I engage it.

I need to test if eTorque works while manually shifting, I did not think to try to see what that registers as.

This last logging is city driving WITHOUT start stop enabled, as we can see from the engine RPMs the truck never shuts off, but it shows gear 0 on like every stop, I was stopped at redlights for several seconds each time and it just sat in gear 0.

 

[Bt10]

Thanks for doing this work Darksteel. Sad that a FCA engineer got paid to program crap like this. I would think gear zero is a release of hydraulic pressure to make stopping easier (in winter) and smoother with a tight converter. In an auto trans, without hydraulic pressure applied to a certain gearset, it effectively is gear zero.

Mine is terrible at this also, whether going around a 90deg street corner or trying to goose it into heavy traffic, it is Heart Stopping Lag, HSL. I've done the reset, helped about 10%, but really need the tune redone. Waiting for the right time to ask the CFO.

 

[Darksteel165]

Thanks for doing this work Darksteel. Sad that a FCA engineer got paid to program crap like this. I would think gear zero is a release of hydraulic pressure to make stopping easier (in winter) and smoother with a tight converter. In an auto trans, without hydraulic pressure applied to a certain gearset, it effectively is gear zero.

Mine is terrible at this also, whether going around a 90deg street corner or trying to goose it into heavy traffic, it is Heart Stopping Lag, HSL. I've done the reset, helped about 10%, but really need the tune redone. Waiting for the right time to ask the CFO.

I mean you can thank me but i'm not doing or fixing anything

One thing I would like to see is someone with a GT who can log and see what happens with start\stop disabled while in sports mode.

The tuner I am working with says he thinks this might just be a quirk of eTorque and could be damaging to get around it and I agree with him. Assuming this is even the TCM's software doing this I would want to flash a firmware from a truck without it, maybe a Jeep with a 392 and run logs, but I have a funny feeling eTorque might just decide to not charge my battery when I do that? Or could be even worse and I don't want to really really risk damaging my truck knowing it could get very expensive and impossible to fix due to software causing some very critical problems knowing a dealership would throw their hands up and say it's unrepairable, or just want to throw every part under the sun at it to fix.

I know someone who has a similar setup to me but no eTorque, i'm going to see if he can do some logging and see if he is encountering gear 0 on starts. Trucks without eTorque don't have the auto start\stop "feature"