Does the Ram 1500 Payload Account for Driver/Passenger, or Not?

[AngelPhoenix]

So I did a brief search through the forums and couldn't nail down a specific thread for this question. I've heard (read) a nearly equal amount of answers on this: does the door sticker payload rating on a Ram 1500 account for the driver? And the passenger? Neither? If someone knows, where/how did you confirm this? Thanks guys!

 

[Turin]

[D]oes the door sticker payload rating on a Ram 1500 account for the driver? And the passenger? Neither?

No.

payload = GVWR - curb weight
curb weight = vehicle as shipped from the factory (model/trim/optioned) with full fluids (gas, oil, etc.) but no occupants

From the manual:

VEHICLE LOADING
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The GVWR is the total permissible weight of your vehicle including driver, passengers, vehicle, options and cargo. The label also specifies maximum capacities of front and rear axle systems (GAWR). Total load must be limited so GVWR and front and rear GAWR are not exceeded.

Payload
The payload of a vehicle is defined as the allowable load weight a truck can carry, including the weight of the driver, all passengers, options and cargo.

[...]

Curb Weight
The curb weight of a vehicle is defined as the total weight of the vehicle with all fluids, including vehicle fuel, at full capacity conditions, and with no occupants or cargo loaded into the vehicle. The front and rear curb weight values are determined by weighing your vehicle on a commercial scale before any occupants or cargo are added.

 

[devildodge]

NO

 

[devildodge]

Ford does this.

SAEj2807 does this for towing numbers...

RAM towing number is GCWR minus Base weight.

This means no driver or hitch.

Explained many, many times here

 

[AngelPhoenix]

No.

payload = GVWR - curb weight
curb weight = vehicle as shipped from the factory (model/trim/optioned) with full fluids (gas, oil, etc.) but no occupants

From the manual:

Thanks for clarifying. I saw some people in other forums/YouTube comment sections insisting that it accounted for a 150lbs driver, and some that it included 300lbs of people total. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do that cause you have no idea how much drivers/passengers will weight but I saw it enough times that I wanted to check here.

 

[Andymax]

In answer to your question, the other folks covered it clearly. At the end of the day though, if you want real detail and numbers there is only one way to measure payload accurately. Load your truck as you would for a worst case towing trip, including the people, pets, snacks, coolers, crap under the rear seat, glove box contents (I think you get the point), tonneau cover, bed mat, etc etc...and the hitch. Then go weigh it and do the math from there. The payload numbers on the door stickers, owners manual, Ram website, etc are all academic...meaning they don't account for real daily life hauling/towing.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

In answer to your question, the other folks covered it clearly. At the end of the day though, if you want real detail and numbers there is only one way to measure payload accurately. Load your truck as you would for a worst case towing trip, including the people, pets, snacks, coolers, crap under the rear seat, glove box contents (I think you get the point), tonneau cover, bed mat, etc etc...and the hitch. Then go weigh it and do the math from there. The payload numbers on the door stickers, owners manual, Ram website, etc are all academic...meaning they don't account for real daily life hauling/towing.

Yeah, I was reading about how even if you're comfortably inside your payload you may be over on your rear axle weight, like if you have a particularly high hitch weight and maybe something in the bed. And that you should get a WDH (just a good idea to have one in general) but that those can help TOO much and allow you to feel really comfortable with your setup but be over your total payload (which can get you in serious trouble if you have an accident).

I mean, I'm such a noob that I had no idea weighing your setup was even a thing that people with trailers did till I started poking around here lol

 

[devildodge]

You HAVE to HAVE a WDH over 500lbs tongue weight and 5000 lbs trailer.

You HAVE to be under axle ratings.

Payload ratings and towing ratings especially are bogus.

The tow number everybody brags about...is without a driver or a hitch...two very important things.

You need to weigh your setup. It makes everything easier.

People tow large trailers everyday...does not make it a good idea for everyone.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

You HAVE to HAVE a WDH over 500lbs tongue weight and 5000 lbs trailer.

You HAVE to be under axle ratings.

Do you mean that the WDH should be able to handle at least 500lbs, and that the trailer you use it on should weigh at least 5K lbs?

And actually, how exactly do you confirm that you're inside your axel ratings, in particular the rear one? Will a scale tell you that?

 

[IvoryHemi]

Thanks for clarifying. I saw some people in other forums/YouTube comment sections insisting that it accounted for a 150lbs driver, and some that it included 300lbs of people total. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do that cause you have no idea how much drivers/passengers will weight but I saw it enough times that I wanted to check here.

A lot of people are confused by the SAE J2807. It’s a towing standard that allows for a 150 lb driver. It’s not a payload calculation standard

 

[Andymax]

Yeah, I was reading about how even if you're comfortably inside your payload you may be over on your rear axle weight, like if you have a particularly high hitch weight and maybe something in the bed. And that you should get a WDH (just a good idea to have one in general) but that those can help TOO much and allow you to feel really comfortable with your setup but be over your total payload (which can get you in serious trouble if you have an accident).

I mean, I'm such a noob that I had no idea weighing your setup was even a thing that people with trailers did till I started poking around here lol

Well, you are WAY ahead of the curve simply by being curious about how all of this works. So many people remain so clueless, and therefore dangerous. I see so many half tons WAY overloaded and so many not even using a WDH.

Good on ya for going about this the right way...

 

[IvoryHemi]

Do you mean that the WDH should be able to handle at least 500lbs, and that the trailer you use it on should weigh at least 5K lbs?

And actually, how exactly do you confirm that you're inside your axel ratings, in particular the rear one? Will a scale tell you that?

Trailer weight over 5,000 lbs needs a WDH. Depends on your setup with how much tongue weight capacity bars you need.

Yes a scale will give you individual axle weights of the tow vehicle.

Ram’s rear GAWR of 4,100 lbs is actually fairly generous. My truck empty weighs F/R 3300/2460 lbs

 

[AngelPhoenix]

A lot of people are confused by the SAE J2807. It’s a towing standard that allows for a 150 lb driver. It’s not a payload calculation standard

I believe that's the document I saw a YouTuber quoting, and saying that it accounts for 300lbs of passengers in a Ram.

That's why I watch those, to get a baseline education so I have some idea what I'm talking about/what to ask, and then come here to query you fine people to get my **** straight lol

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Well, you are WAY ahead of the curve simply by being curious about how all of this works. So many people remain so clueless, and therefore dangerous. I see so many half tons WAY overloaded and so many not even using a WDH.

Good on ya for going about this the right way...

Thank you sir, I am trying. I will be putting my family in this truck with the trailer out the back. **** happens but if it does, I refuse for it to be because I was ignorant.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Trailer weight over 5,000 lbs needs a WDH. Depends on your setup with how much tongue weight capacity bars you need.

Yes a scale will give you individual axle weights of the tow vehicle.

Ram’s rear GAWR of 4,100 lbs is actually fairly generous. My truck empty weighs F/R 3300/2460 lbs

Okay so a given WDH will have different (or more…or less?) tongue weight capacity bars, and how many/what strength you need will depend on the hitch weight of the trailer…?

Good to know about the rear axel. Makes sense that you lose most of the (total) payload at the front with the cab/engine.

 

[devildodge]

Okay so a given WDH will have different (or more…or less?) tongue weight capacity bars, and how many/what strength you need will depend on the hitch weight of the trailer…?

Good to know about the rear axel. Makes sense that you lose most of the (total) payload at the front with the cab/engine.

The WDH main job is to make sure you keep that weight at the front axle.

It is great to be able to pull things. But, you need to be able to steer and stop.

Guess what axle does that.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

The WDH main job is to make sure you keep that weight at the front axle.

It is great to be able to pull things. But, you need to be able to steer and stop.

Guess what axle does that.

Right, so it sounds like being over total payload with a WDH could be even more dangerous than being (slightly) over without one.

In any case, I will NOT go over, ever. Just seems like an utterly pointless risk to take (legally, if nothing else). I'm hoping to stay at least 100lbs under.

 

[devildodge]

Right, so it sounds like being over total payload with a WDH could be even more dangerous than being (slightly) over without one.

In any case, I will NOT go over, ever. Just seems like an utterly pointless risk to take (legally, if nothing else). I'm hoping to stay at least 100lbs under.

No. A WDH is always going to be better.

If you are over payload with a trailer hitched to you and you do not have a WDH...you are going to be light in the front axle and steering and braking will be adversely affected.

There is really no legal reason to worry about being over payload.

Being over axle weights will result in premature wear on components and an unstable truck.

Actually...lets say you are 100lbs over payload.

You properly hook your WDH...it is gonna send some of that weight to the trailer...and most importantly...back to the steer axle.

This is why GVWR is less than both axle weight ratings combined. A truck loads to the rear and removes weight from the front. An SUV distributes it much more equally

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Just FYI (I will probably do a separate thread for this once I get closer to actually purchasing), but this is the absolute top end of size I would look to tow:

Cherokee Grey Wolf 23MK - Forest River RV

Details, floorplan, specifications, and more about the Grey Wolf 23MK Grey Wolf Travel Trailers.

forestriverinc.com

And, realistically, I will end up with something more like this:

Rockwood Geo Pro G20FBS - Forest River RV

Details, floorplan, specifications, and more about the Geo-Pro G20FBS Travel Trailers.

forestriverinc.com

 

[AngelPhoenix]

No. A WDH is always going to be better.

If you are over payload with a trailer hitched to you and you do not have a WDH...you are going to be light in the front axle and steering and braking will be adversely affected.

There is really no legal reason to worry about being over payload.

Being over axle weights will result in premature wear on components and an unstable truck.

Actually...lets say you are 100lbs over payload.

You properly hook your WDH...it is gonna send some of that weight to the trailer...and most importantly...back to the steer axle.

This is why GVWR is less than both axle weight ratings combined. A truck loads to the rear and removes weight from the front. An SUV distributes it much more equally

Good stuff man, thank you!