5thGenRams Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Do options lower towing capacity or just GCWR?

Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
21
Reaction score
3
I know that adding options to your truck (side steps, MFT, etc) lowers your payload capacity, but does it change your towing capacity?

Or do options not change your towing capacity directly but added options count toward GCWR so they might push you over GCWR (if you happen to be hauling a good bit too)?

Hope this makes sense...

Thanks in advance.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

Zeronet

Ram Guru
Joined
Jul 5, 2018
Messages
627
Reaction score
648
Location
Florida and West Virginia
In my mind the max towing rating is just marketing hype. Especially for the 3.92 equipped trucks. Most people will exceed the payload capacity if attempting to pull a trailer anywhere close to the max towing weight.

The short answer to your question Is yes, options that add weight to the truck will reduce the remaining capacity for towing.

The max tow rating is based on a lightly optioned truck, full fuel load with a small weight allowance for driver, passenger and hitch. It is also assumed that the trailer will have a 10% tongue weight. Its a very specific criteria and is rarely duplicated in real world towing.

As you alluded to, the real-world number to use would be GCWR, the maximum weight of the combined Truck and Trailer. Obviously any weight added to the truck would lower the amount remaining for the trailer. But again, you’re likely to run out of payload on the truck before you would exceed GCWR.
 

Cueva del Osos

Active Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Messages
87
Reaction score
82
My take is that you’re taking about two different numbers. Tow capacity is based on engine, axle, etc and those numbers are published.

Payload & GVWR are vehicle specific. FCA starts with a payload for the model at a base trim and then every add on, option, etc eats into the available payload. Final # is on the door sticker. Don’t forget that fuel & passengers count as payload.

Tow capacity is independent of payload/GVWR but payload/GVWR is not independent of the toad. Just because a Ram ‘can’ tow 11,000# doesn’t mean that a Ram has available payload to absorb the tongue weight of an 11,000# toad. I might be able to lift 300#, but the hernia I blow when I try it will tell me in hindsight that I should have thought better!:ROFLMAO:

You can calculate tongue weight estimates for 10-12% of the toad weight with a good WD hitch or 15% of a 5W weight, but those numbers vary based on how your toad is loaded (balanced side to side, 60% of weight in front of toad’s axles, height/angle of the hitch), so the ’safest’ bet is to get thee to a CAT scale and get the true weight for your rig/setup.

Final two cents: Some consider payload to be a suggestion. They tow in excess of GVWR arguing that manufacturers build in excess of the stated payload and the door sticker is a low-ball number. They point out that they’ve never had a problem towing their massive trailers or toy haulers (last year @ Grand Canyon, we had a neighboring spot with an F150 - not diesel - a family of 6 and pulling their new 10,000# 5W toy hauler...WTF...) While they have a right to their opinion, they don’t have the right to endanger others on the road. Driving out here in the open expanses of the western US, I’ve seen the aftermath of towing gone bad...from trailers/trucks laying on their sides to trailers cracked open like an egg and the contents spread across 1/4 to 1/2 mile of road/median to burned out wrecks that have rolled and, I assume, sent the passengers to hospital on a gurney or in a bag. Pick your truck based on what you want to tow or buy a trailer based on what your truck can SAFELY handle. The difference in how you’ll feel after a day of driving a properly sized tow combo vs driving a maxed out combo is the difference between feeling like you’re on vacation vs feeling like an OTR trucker.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
21
Reaction score
3
Thanks, that's all what I thought. I'm looking at a pretty loaded CC 4x4 Laramie, so payload is getting eaten up by options.. so I am likely to hit the payload capacity before towing capacity.

I don't think I'll ever tow more than 7500 lbs (current TT is around 4500 lbs but will probably upgrade in the future).

That's at least 750 lbs off payload capacity right there due to tongue weight. Plus a family of 4, other gear, ice chests, etc in the bed.. probably getting close to max payload.

I'd rather be a bit under all the max ratings. :)

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

Cueva del Osos

Active Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2019
Messages
87
Reaction score
82
For what it’s worth, we definitely pack as much as possible in the trailer and as little as possible in the truck, since you only realize 10% of the true weight that way. The cooler goes in the trailer and a small tote of beverages/snacks goes in the cab. We refill the tote as needed when stopping for gas or Mother Nature. Same goes for camp chairs, awnings, tables, etc. we drive with all that in the trailer and then stow it in the truck bed (if storage is needed) when we’ve made camp.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
21
Reaction score
3
We do similar. But our current trailer is single axle and Soni don't want to overweight it (esp if the fresh water tank is filled).. so, it's a balancing act.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,382
Reaction score
2,317
Tow capacity is independent of payload/GVWR but payload/GVWR is not independent of the toad.

I agree with the bottom half of your post, but not sure I agree with your definition of "tow capacity", specifically the part of it being "independent of payload/gvwr".

To me, "tow capacity" = "how much can I tow"? That answer has 2 parts, payload, and gcwr. Either of those 2 numbers will limit you, and you go with the number that limits you first.

So you may be able to tow 11,000 pounds, but only have a payload of 1200 pounds. By the time you add your family and some luggage in the truck, you may be down to 400 pounds of available payload.

So pulling a travel tailer, with 10% tongue weight, means you can only tow 4000 pounds in this scenario. That is your "tow capacity".

Now if the same truck is only carrying a driver at 200 pounds, payload = 1200 - 200 + 150 = 1150. (150 is added back in because payload includes 150 pounds for a driver).

1150 payload with 10% tongue weight gives you 11,500 pounds of trailer. So now your limit is the 11,000 pounds, the payload isn't the limiting factor here. In this scenario, your tow capacity = 11,000 pounds.

So to me; tow capacity is very much dependent on payload. It can change depending on whether you have passengers/luggage.
 

devildodge

Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
4,926
Reaction score
4,639
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Your truck has 2 ratings. GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING and GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT RATING.

GVWR is for the truck. GCWR is for the truck and trailer.

GVWR for a Hemi 4x4 1500 is 7100 (7200 now for 2020 diesel) has nothing to do with anything but it being a 4x4 (2wd is 6900)

Gross Axle Weight Ratings are 3900 front and 4100 rear. each for 4x4. Which, yes goes to 8000...but there are other things getting us back to 7100.

GCWR is based solely on rear gear ratio.
3.21 is 13900 and 3.92 is 17000. Read the charts explanation and you will u understand why.

So now...
Final # is on the door sticker. Don’t forget that fuel & passengers count as payload.

Fuel IS NOT payload, it is part of base weight. With a full tank you still have all that payload listed.(as you drive and use fuel or start with less than a full tank...you actually gain payload) Payload is GVWR minus base weight. Base weight is the truck with all factory options and all fluids. But, yes passengers are payload so are not accounted for in the payload rating and would take away from it.

Passengers are included in GCWR...to the tune of 300 lbs. So, figure accordingly. The chart says 2 passengers at 150lbs...I weigh 295.

Also included is hitch weight of 70 and 10% tongue weight.

Easy to see how the max towing is that...MAX...never to be achieved unless you only have 300lbs of cargo and a very light tongue weight on trailer.

So, at the end of the day the max a RAM 1500 can weigh on a CAT scale with a trailer is 17000lbs. Each axle has to be under 3900, with the truck not exceeding 7100.

It is that simple. Be careful if you decide to exceed any one of the numbers.

And yes, options and mods do affect both payload and GCWR.
 
Last edited:

raven_DT

Active Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
141
Reaction score
100
All new 1/2 ton trucks (as far as I know) have tow rating established by the SAE J2807 standard. It use to be arbitrary and manufacturers would sometimes be overly generous (imo) in their tow ratings (cough cough Ford). We had a 2010 Expedition with the heavy duty tow package rated at 9200# max, towing a 6500# TT. We could barely pull across an intersection without it being an adventure... Gotta love the 5.4 engine coupled to a 3.31 rear end, but it was rated to tow 9200#. :rolleyes:
 

derp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
367
Reaction score
193
Location
FL
Everything in motion needs to be borne as mass that is either being put into or take out of motion by the driveline and brakes.

Cruising on flat land with a well balanced trailer is pretty damed easy (see space shuttle tow). Things really fall apart on inclines where the transmission is constantly working against the additional load going up or down. Braking and starts are also higher loads.

After detonating a transfer case on a Jeep many years ago, I am now much more observant of the rated cap of the trucks I have.

That said, I haven't actually had a cause to trailer anything heavier than a motorcycle trailer since then.
 

barr0208

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
244
Reaction score
159
Location
winipeg manitoba canada
Your truck has 2 ratings. GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT RATING and GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT RATING.

GVWR is for the truck. GCWR is for the truck and trailer.

GVWR for a Hemi 4x4 1500 is 7100 (7200 now for 2020 diesel) has nothing to do with anything but it being a 4x4 (2wd is 6900)

Gross Axle Weight Ratings are 3900 each for 4x4. Which, yes goes to 7800...but there are other things getting us back to 7100.

GCWR is based solely on rear gear ratio.
3.21 is 13900 and 3.92 is 17000. Read the charts explanation and you will u understand why.

So now...


Fuel IS NOT payload, it is part of base weight. With a full tank you still have all that payload listed.(as you drive and use fuel or start with less than a full tank...you actually gain payload) Payload is GVWR minus base weight. Base weight is the truck with all factory options and all fluids. But, yes passengers are payload so are not accounted for in the payload rating and would take away from it.

Passengers are included in GCWR...to the tune of 300 lbs. So, figure accordingly. The chart says 2 passengers at 150lbs...I weigh 295.

Also included is hitch weight of 70 and 10% tongue weight.

Easy to see how the max towing is that...MAX...never to be achieved unless you only have 300lbs of cargo and a very light tongue weight on trailer.

So, at the end of the day the max a RAM 1500 can weigh on a CAT scale with a trailer is 17000lbs. Each axle has to be under 3900, with the truck not exceeding 7100.

It is that simple. Be careful if you decide to exceed any one of the numbers.

And yes, options and mods do affect both payload and GCWR.
everything you say is correct except for the rear axle rating which is 4100 lbs not 3900 for the 4x4 and the sticker is questionable as I cat scaled my truck and with a full tank I weighed in at 5448 lbs so 7100-5448=1652 lbs of payload my sticker says 1272lbs which one would you use???
 
Last edited:

derp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
367
Reaction score
193
Location
FL
everything you say is correct except for the rear axle rating which is 4100 lbs not 3900 for the 4x4 and the sticker is questionable as I cat scaled my truck and with a full tank I weighed in at 5448 lbs so 7100-5448=1652 lbs of payload my sticker says 1272lbs which one would you use???
Always go with the lower number. this is a situation where being conservative in your loading can save your truck and your life.
 

devildodge

Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
4,926
Reaction score
4,639
Location
Central Pennsylvania
everything you say is correct except for the rear axle rating which is 4100 lbs not 3900 for the 4x4 and the sticker is questionable as I cat scaled my truck and with a full tank I weighed in at 5448 lbs so 7100-5448=1652 lbs of payload my sticker says 1272lbs which one would you use???

I fixed the error above. Who knows what I was thinking.

For the experiment...can you post both your axle rating sticker and your tire and loading sticker.

That is very odd that they did it that low.

Can you also go here
Enter your VIN and tell us what it says.

@Dawn Fought the good fight for us and she got them to change the way they do the information.

Let us know what you come up with please.

Thanks for catching the mistake and giving us some new info
 

Wileykid

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2020
Messages
6
Reaction score
3
Always go with the lower number. this is a situation where being conservative in your loading can save your truck and your life.

I am curious as to why you say this. If in fact the sticker is correct for the lower number, either the truck has lost that additional weight since the factory weighed it, or if correct, the GVWR would be a lower weight corresponding to the payload number.

Agree with doing the VIN lookup, and being Canadian, make sure you are not mixing kgs and lbs in your numbers.
 

devildodge

Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
4,926
Reaction score
4,639
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Agree with doing the VIN lookup, and being Canadian, make sure you are not mixing kgs and lbs in your numbers.
Thanks for showing he was Canadian. Not that it should matter (it does with HeavyDuty though...Canadian trucks get a different GVWR) maybe a conversion number is wrong.

@barr0208 when you get a chance please post your stickers. Thank you
 

devildodge

Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
4,926
Reaction score
4,639
Location
Central Pennsylvania
everything you say is correct except for the rear axle rating which is 4100 lbs not 3900 for the 4x4 and the sticker is questionable as I cat scaled my truck and with a full tank I weighed in at 5448 lbs so 7100-5448=1652 lbs of payload my sticker says 1272lbs which one would you use???
I see in the payload sticker thread you listed your scale weight as 5580. So, now I am more confused.

And I now realize you have a canadian Sport. Can not imagine it makes a difference but will be interesting to see.
 

barr0208

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2019
Messages
244
Reaction score
159
Location
winipeg manitoba canada
I see in the payload sticker thread you listed your scale weight as 5580. So, now I am more confused.

And I now realize you have a canadian Sport. Can not imagine it makes a difference but will be interesting to see.
I stand corrected slip of numbers it was 5548 not 5448 still a higher number I really don't care what the sticker says I weighed my truck and will go with the actual weight to figure out my payload.
 

devildodge

Moderator
Staff member
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Messages
4,926
Reaction score
4,639
Location
Central Pennsylvania
Ok, that is fine, weighing your truck before during and after a buildup is the best way. You know and understand the capacities so we won't be helping you there.

Was just curious if we could figure out what went wrong...why your truck is rated wrong.

Thanks for alerting my mistake though. I did figure out my slip up though.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top