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Do ALL Rebels have a 1" lift

umbighouse

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I'm about to become the owner of a new (to me) 2020 Ram Rebel. I've confirmed that it doesn't have the air suspension. I'm planning to add a lift. Do all Rebels have a 1" lift? If so, this will affect my lift math. I'm looking at Bilstein adjustable shocks, and if I remove the current ones, would the total lift be about 1" less than the new adjusted shocks (i.e., a 2.8" adjustment would net 1.8")? Thanks in advance.
 

Grape_Ape

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If I'm remembering correctly the rebels should be like the orp trucks in that the springs are where the extra 1" of lift comes from. So whatever you set your shocks at would be +1" because of the springs.
 

umbighouse

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If I'm remembering correctly the rebels should be like the orp trucks in that the springs are where the extra 1" of lift comes from. So whatever you set your shocks at would be +1" because of the springs.
I wonder if this is why Bilstein says to only set the 5100 max height to setting 5 (and not 6 or 7) because of the longer springs/coils? So if this is the case, would a 2" adjustable shock net me 3" total?
 

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I wonder if this is why Bilstein says to only set the 5100 max height to setting 5 (and not 6 or 7) because of the longer springs/coils? So if this is the case, would a 2" adjustable shock net me 3" total?

Yes, this is the reason, due to the stiffer and/or longer Rebel spring. The issue is the angles of the suspension is beyond what they recommend with Rebel/ORP springs at the highest collar settings.
 

HSKR R/T

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I wonder if this is why Bilstein says to only set the 5100 max height to setting 5 (and not 6 or 7) because of the longer springs/coils? So if this is the case, would a 2" adjustable shock net me 3" total?
There are different directions for the Bilstein shocks based on if you have ORP or normal. The Rebel has ORP. In which case circlip 4 us the recommended max setting without going with aftermarket UCAS.
 

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Yes, this is the reason, due to the stiffer and/or longer Rebel spring. The issue is the angles of the suspension is beyond what they recommend with Rebel/ORP springs at the highest collar settings.
^^^This. The coil is 1" longer. Don't go above ring five even if you do get UCA's.
 

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^^^This. The coil is 1" longer. Don't go above ring five even if you do get UCA's.

That makes sense, I heard that you really shouldn't go beyond 2.5" with a spring or spacer type lift due to the angle limits on the RAM, even an aftermarket UCA may not be able to compensate. After that point, you will need drop type systems that move the whole assemblies down to maintain proper angles.

That's why the Carli kit, which is a 2.5" diameter shock, but also only lifts the front 2.5 inches, they said that's about how far you can go with the angles the 1500 offers, they did a lot of research on this before settling on that height.
 

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That makes sense, I heard that you really shouldn't go beyond 2.5" with a spring or spacer type lift due to the angle limits on the RAM, even an aftermarket UCA may not be able to compensate. After that point, you will need drop type systems that move the whole assemblies down to maintain proper angles.

That's why the Carli kit, which is a 2.5" diameter shock, but also only lifts the front 2.5 inches, they said that's about how far you can go with the angles the 1500 offers, they did a lot of research on this before settling on that height.
Almost all of the major manufacturers go to three inches. They just recommend you go to an aftermarket UCA. You will get a good alignment and if you can get a good alignment then there are no issues.
 

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Almost all of the major manufacturers go to three inches. They just recommend you go to an aftermarket UCA. You will get a good alignment and if you can get a good alignment then there are no issues.

Absolutely, though that doesn't mean Carli is wrong for being conservative about that. Their recommendation for 2.5" is based on using aftermarket UCAs. I don't think anyone does the same level of testing and R&D that Carli does. Other manufacturers put out plenty of kits that stress out components. There is an acceptable range of stress people will make depending on their goals and budgets.

That being said, Carli is focused on off-road ability and ride, so they are more critical about those angles. If you are just using these kits to fit 35" tires, street driving & dirt roads, it's probably not a big deal. In that case, 3" is probably fine.

For example, the Readlift 3.5" kit seems to work for a lot of people, though it's a kit based on a top hat spacer and preload spacer on the same strut assembly utilizing the stock strut & spring, I would not recommend it for serious off-roading.
 
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boogielander

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Absolutely, though that doesn't mean Carli is wrong for being conservative about that. Their recommendation for 2.5" is based on using aftermarket UCAs. I don't think anyone does the same level of testing and R&D that Carli does. Other manufacturers put out plenty of kits that stress out components. There is an acceptable range of stress people will make depending on their goals and budgets.

That being said, Carli is focused on off-road ability and ride, so they are more critical about those angles. If you are just using these kits to fit 35" tires, street driving & dirt roads, it's probably not a big deal. In that case, 3" is probably fine.

For example, the Readlift 3.5" kit seems to work for a lot of people, though it's a kit based on a top hat spacer and preload spacer on the same strut assembly utilizing the stock strut & spring, I would not recommend it for serious off-roading.
actually Carli's recommendation is more than geometry.

before i start, let me just warn readers that this will be a lengthy and technical post. Feel free to skip if you only want the look and don't care about ride quality.





ok you've been warned.​

Carli recommend 2.5" because the King/ Fox they use are only 2-3" lift (depends on the spring rate used and preload adjustment) and you will NEVER want to max out your shock's potential when lifting. For instance, King/ Fox 2.5 has a max lift capacity of +3" (compare to stock). That means, to achieve that 3" lift you crank your collar down to show approximately 11-15 threads on top of the collar on the shock. That is not good because you're actually increasing your preload to get that "lifted" look by reducing the amount of distance your piston in the shock can travel to dampen the ride, and you're compressing the springs more.
Still not making sense to you? Think of it this way, your shock has a travel distance of position (p) 1-10 with the piston sitting at (p)5 when no preload adjustment is made (collar on top) with the +2" lift spring provided by the manufacturer. As your shock cycles, it goes from (p)5 to 10 for compression strokes and (p)5 to 1 for rebound strokes. This allows for a nice and comfortable ride whether you are going through Los Angeles crappy roads or through Mojave Desert or Baja doing 60MPH.
When you crank it up to get that 1 extra inch of lift, the piston sits at (p)7 and that's your new starting point. Your compression now go from (p)7 to 10 instead of (p)5 to 10, which makes your landing or going through bumps and what not harsher than it should be. In addition, your rebound now go from (p)7-1, which means it has more distance for your shock to decompress and slow down your shock cycle. Also not good for going through dips and stuff.

Unfortunately, that is how all these height adjustable shocks are designed. "Height adjustable" is not real but a marketing phrase used. Since adjusting "preload" yields the same visual result and using the term "height adjustable" is easier for average consumer without proper knowledge to buy their products. That is why many people think their suspensions ride "firmer" or "more sporty" after adjusting the collar on their Bilstein shocks. It is not only Bilsteins are firmer (yes, their valving is slightly firmer than stock non ORG/ Rebel shocks, but that's beside the point here), but also because people are increasing the preload (reduce suspension travel) for that "lift"

So, Carli recommends no more than 2.5" not only because of geometry limitations, but also for shock performance.
Majority of their customers buy their shock because they want to go fast in the desert, where bumps, dips, and everything in between come at you hard and fast. Applying what I just explained above, the more biased the shocks are, the harsher the ride will be in those situations. 2.5" is most likely the balancing point of visually appealing and performance, hence their recommendation.

If OP is going to use his truck for some high speed runs, I recommend skipping "height adjustable" Bilsteins and jump straight to King or FOX. But regardless how OP tackles his lift situation, I'd also put on aftermarket UCA as well just to bring front suspension geometry to where it should be.


How do I know these?​

I go fast in the desert and I spend time with people who go even faster in the desert in their HD Dodge Trucks with their $10k+ suspensions. I've ran a set of Bilsteins so hard in the desert that they exploded and squired the shock oil everywhere when I took them off. I've also had enough harsh landings and jumped my vehicle a few times to know what a good set of off-the-shelf suspension should perform. I've explained this to many customers asking what's the benefit of getting King/ FOX over Bilsteins or other more "economical" brands. I've also installed/ uninstalled/ adjusted enough sets of suspensions on customers' trucks to know what's good and what's not. Finally, I've had enough customers who didn't believe me the first time I explained only to come back after going on a trip in the desert to tell me I was right and they are now paying me to remove their Bilsteins to put on a set of proper suspension.


 

SD Rebel

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actually Carli's recommendation is more than geometry.

before i start, let me just warn readers that this will be a lengthy and technical post. Feel free to skip if you only want the look and don't care about ride quality.





ok you've been warned.​

Carli recommend 2.5" because the King/ Fox they use are only 2-3" lift (depends on the spring rate used and preload adjustment) and you will NEVER want to max out your shock's potential when lifting. For instance, King/ Fox 2.5 has a max lift capacity of +3" (compare to stock). That means, to achieve that 3" lift you crank your collar down to show approximately 11-15 threads on top of the collar on the shock. That is not good because you're actually increasing your preload to get that "lifted" look by reducing the amount of distance your piston in the shock can travel to dampen the ride, and you're compressing the springs more.
Still not making sense to you? Think of it this way, your shock has a travel distance of position (p) 1-10 with the piston sitting at (p)5 when no preload adjustment is made (collar on top) with the +2" lift spring provided by the manufacturer. As your shock cycles, it goes from (p)5 to 10 for compression strokes and (p)5 to 1 for rebound strokes. This allows for a nice and comfortable ride whether you are going through Los Angeles crappy roads or through Mojave Desert or Baja doing 60MPH.
When you crank it up to get that 1 extra inch of lift, the piston sits at (p)7 and that's your new starting point. Your compression now go from (p)7 to 10 instead of (p)5 to 10, which makes your landing or going through bumps and what not harsher than it should be. In addition, your rebound now go from (p)7-1, which means it has more distance for your shock to decompress and slow down your shock cycle. Also not good for going through dips and stuff.

Unfortunately, that is how all these height adjustable shocks are designed. "Height adjustable" is not real but a marketing phrase used. Since adjusting "preload" yields the same visual result and using the term "height adjustable" is easier for average consumer without proper knowledge to buy their products. That is why many people think their suspensions ride "firmer" or "more sporty" after adjusting the collar on their Bilstein shocks. It is not only Bilsteins are firmer (yes, their valving is slightly firmer than stock non ORG/ Rebel shocks, but that's beside the point here), but also because people are increasing the preload (reduce suspension travel) for that "lift"

So, Carli recommends no more than 2.5" not only because of geometry limitations, but also for shock performance.
Majority of their customers buy their shock because they want to go fast in the desert, where bumps, dips, and everything in between come at you hard and fast. Applying what I just explained above, the more biased the shocks are, the harsher the ride will be in those situations. 2.5" is most likely the balancing point of visually appealing and performance, hence their recommendation.

If OP is going to use his truck for some high speed runs, I recommend skipping "height adjustable" Bilsteins and jump straight to King or FOX. But regardless how OP tackles his lift situation, I'd also put on aftermarket UCA as well just to bring front suspension geometry to where it should be.


How do I know these?​

I go fast in the desert and I spend time with people who go even faster in the desert in their HD Dodge Trucks with their $10k+ suspensions. I've ran a set of Bilsteins so hard in the desert that they exploded and squired the shock oil everywhere when I took them off. I've also had enough harsh landings and jumped my vehicle a few times to know what a good set of off-the-shelf suspension should perform. I've explained this to many customers asking what's the benefit of getting King/ FOX over Bilsteins or other more "economical" brands. I've also installed/ uninstalled/ adjusted enough sets of suspensions on customers' trucks to know what's good and what's not. Finally, I've had enough customers who didn't believe me the first time I explained only to come back after going on a trip in the desert to tell me I was right and they are now paying me to remove their Bilsteins to put on a set of proper suspension.



Nice info!
 

H2OMAN

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Absolutely, though that doesn't mean Carli is wrong for being conservative about that. Their recommendation for 2.5" is based on using aftermarket UCAs. I don't think anyone does the same level of testing and R&D that Carli does. Other manufacturers put out plenty of kits that stress out components. There is an acceptable range of stress people will make depending on their goals and budgets.

That being said, Carli is focused on off-road ability and ride, so they are more critical about those angles. If you are just using these kits to fit 35" tires, street driving & dirt roads, it's probably not a big deal. In that case, 3" is probably fine.

For example, the Readlift 3.5" kit seems to work for a lot of people, though it's a kit based on a top hat spacer and preload spacer on the same strut assembly utilizing the stock strut & spring, I would not recommend it for serious off-roading.
This is correct. Let us just note that Carli doesn't make anything. They upgrade existing. They are great upgrades. Also, you are correct about the Readylift. It is a POS that will destroy your front end for the sake of looking lifted. 3.5 inches on a puck is just dumb.
 

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I've been trying to solve this Rebel 1" factory lift riddle for a while. I have a 2020 Rebel to which I've added a 2" Readylift leveling kit. With the additional 2 inches, I'm at 23.75" from center hub to fender. Assuming I was at 21.75" pre level kit, that suggests there was no lift relative to other trims.
I also see on Readylift's website they call BS on Rebels being lifted. They state virtually every Rebel they've seen has the same hub to fender distance as other trims.
Lastly, note the vehicle height as stated in the owners manual. The Rebel is no higher than other trims, regardless of additional tire size and supposed factory lift.
I'm of the opinion Rebels do not come with a 1" factory lift.
But I would love to have definitive proof I'm wrong!
 

HSKR R/T

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I've been trying to solve this Rebel 1" factory lift riddle for a while. I have a 2020 Rebel to which I've added a 2" Readylift leveling kit. With the additional 2 inches, I'm at 23.75" from center hub to fender. Assuming I was at 21.75" pre level kit, that suggests there was no lift relative to other trims.
I also see on Readylift's website they call BS on Rebels being lifted. They state virtually every Rebel they've seen has the same hub to fender distance as other trims.
Lastly, note the vehicle height as stated in the owners manual. The Rebel is no higher than other trims, regardless of additional tire size and supposed factory lift.
I'm of the opinion Rebels do not come with a 1" factory lift.
But I would love to have definitive proof I'm wrong!
The Rebel, and any Ram with the Off Road Package have a 1" taller ride height than non-ORP Rams. There is no riddle to solve.
 

MattB07

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The Rebel, and any Ram with the Off Road Package have a 1" taller ride height than non-ORP Rams. There is no riddle to solve.
I realize that is what is written. But this is not what is reality according to the tape measure.
 

HSKR R/T

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I realize that is what is written. But this is not what is reality according to the tape measure.
Not sure where you are getting this info. There was even a recall on the Built to Serve trucks because they got shipped with the wrong springs and didn't have the raised ride height from the ORP
 

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I think the 1" lift is based on a stiffer spring and in part to the 33" tires. You are losing some of that "lift" when you measure from hub to bottom of fender well. Of course this doesn't make up for the full 1".

I remember reading that Readylift stated there was some variance when measuring from center of hub to fender, that some trucks didn't appear to have a lift that stated they did, and that if you were below a certain measurement, you could use their leveling kit.

If you have a Rebel, go out and measure a non-ORP truck and see the difference. Remember to check both sides, as there will be a variance, usually the driver's side is lower.
 

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I think the 1" lift is based on a stiffer spring and in part to the 33" tires. You are losing some of that "lift" when you measure from hub to bottom of fender well. Of course this doesn't make up for the full 1".

I remember reading that Readylift stated there was some variance when measuring from center of hub to fender, that some trucks didn't appear to have a lift that stated they did, and that if you were below a certain measurement, you could use their leveling kit.

If you have a Rebel, go out and measure a non-ORP truck and see the difference. Remember to check both sides, as there will be a variance, usually the driver's side is lower.
You read the same info from Readylift that I did which triggered some of my confusion. They are convinced Rebel's do not have 1" lift. This is what triggered my curiousity and confusion.

My mother in law has a Ram Limited. Last time she was in town I measured her rear fender height from ground which is the same as mine - 40". Although I don't know what setting her air-suspension was on and I also didn't measure hub to fender. So not convinced one way or the other based on this but it's suspicious.

On another thread within this forum (wish I could recall which), another user with a non-Rebel trim states his distance front hub-center to fender is 21.75". That would be the same as my Rebel. Not a good sign that I have a 1" lift.

The Ram spec sheet lists the "exterior body height" of the Rebel the exact same height as the Limited. Not a good indicator that a 1" lift is included.

During my last visit to a Ram dealer a few months ago servicing one of the recent recalls, I asked the service manager about the 1" lift. He said he knew nothing about a factory 1" lift on a Rebel. He's possibly clueless, but another small data point going against the 1" lift.

So I have all these data points that don't give me confidence about the lift.

HSKR's post about the Built to Serve trim gives me some reassurance, but there are all these other indicators that suggest otherwise.

Perhaps I'll visit my local dealer soon with a tape measure and see what I can find.
 

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You read the same info from Readylift that I did which triggered some of my confusion. They are convinced Rebel's do not have 1" lift. This is what triggered my curiousity and confusion.

My mother in law has a Ram Limited. Last time she was in town I measured her rear fender height from ground which is the same as mine - 40". Although I don't know what setting her air-suspension was on and I also didn't measure hub to fender. So not convinced one way or the other based on this but it's suspicious.

On another thread within this forum (wish I could recall which), another user with a non-Rebel trim states his distance front hub-center to fender is 21.75". That would be the same as my Rebel. Not a good sign that I have a 1" lift.

The Ram spec sheet lists the "exterior body height" of the Rebel the exact same height as the Limited. Not a good indicator that a 1" lift is included.

During my last visit to a Ram dealer a few months ago servicing one of the recent recalls, I asked the service manager about the 1" lift. He said he knew nothing about a factory 1" lift on a Rebel. He's possibly clueless, but another small data point going against the 1" lift.

So I have all these data points that don't give me confidence about the lift.

HSKR's post about the Built to Serve trim gives me some reassurance, but there are all these other indicators that suggest otherwise.

Perhaps I'll visit my local dealer soon with a tape measure and see what I can find.

Yeah, I'm not convinced either, though I just measured mine. From the bottom of the fender flare, directly over the hub center, I got 22 1/8th in. on the driver's side and 22 1/4 in. on the passenger side. Based on this, at least on my passenger side, there is about 1/2" between your truck and mine.

I also wonder how much space there is between the fender flare and the bottom of the fender sheet metal with the body colored flares vs painted ones. They aren't the same fender, there could be some discrepancy there. Keep that in mind with ORP trucks if they don't have fender flares.
 

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Yeah, I'm not convinced either, though I just measured mine. From the bottom of the fender flare, directly over the hub center, I got 22 1/8th in. on the driver's side and 22 1/4 in. on the passenger side.

I also wonder how much space there is between the fender flare and the bottom of the fender sheet metal with the body colored flares vs painted ones. They aren't the same fender, there could be some discrepancy there. Keep that in mind with ORP trucks if they don't have fender flares.
They used the full kit, 3.5 in the front and 2 in the back but mine is not a rebel, Just the rebel wheels and tires. Pre lift it measured 21.75 from center hub to fender
Found previous quote from another thread. Notice Tac747 does not have a Rebel but has roughly same distance. Good question about the fender flare. Who knows?!
 

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