Discussion over motors and what to get

[mhb1638]

Afternoon gents. I was wondering what peoples opinions are on motor choices. I've driven several 5th gens with the hemi non etorque and one with ED. I'm getting ready to order a 2022 ram (either rebel or limited). I like the gas mileage of the Eco allot. But dealership mechanics advise against it. Say they are expensive to own and maintain. If you go to fueleconomy.gov and compare the two, they say the hemi is more expensive. Either way, i'm looking for input. I will probably do a level and 33/34 AT tires down the road. My 2020 limited with 285's only got 16.5 on the highway with those tires which is even more reason I'm considering the eco.....

 

[mikeru82]

It's not just about fuel economy. It also depends on how long you plan to keep it. You pay a premium for the oil burner ($3200 over the Hemi), so you'll want to do some calculations to figure out how long it will take for the fuel economy savings to pay for that difference in price. Also consider that diesel is more expensive in most parts of the country, and maintenance costs for the diesel are higher.

 

[mhb1638]

It's not just about fuel economy. It also depends on how long you plan to keep it. You pay a premium for the oil burner ($3200 over the Hemi), so you'll want to do some calculations to figure out how long it will take for the fuel economy savings to pay for that difference in price. Also consider that diesel is more expensive in most parts of the country, and maintenance costs for the diesel are higher.

Very true. Right now in Arizona, gas and diesel almost the same price. So that point is moot. But yes, the $3200 is a good point. I usually keep vehicles a year or 2 maybe 3 at most.

 

[bill-e]

Very true. Right now in Arizona, gas and diesel almost the same price. So that point is moot. But yes, the $3200 is a good point. I usually keep vehicles a year or 2 maybe 3 at most.

But 30mpg vs 16.5 is a big deal as well even if diesel .20 more expensive. Then again if you put those big tires on you wont get 30 with the EcoD.

I tow and like the torque, I like the mileage, the premium price is forgotten once the sale is made plus I just like the little diesel.

 

[Cajun_]

Very true. Right now in Arizona, gas and diesel almost the same price. So that point is moot. But yes, the $3200 is a good point. I usually keep vehicles a year or 2 maybe 3 at most.

How many miles you driving a year?

 

[mhb1638]

How many miles you driving a year?

Well, thats tough to say, I moved here from Georgia to Arizona in May. I've been driving allot here going to see places. I drive 20 miles to work one way daily. Plus the trips to the store, outings, etc...plus new sites....maybe ball park 15k

 

[AMS Guru]

I'm hard-core EcoDiesel. The fuel economy is incredible as is the driveability. As stated by @mikeru82 if you're trying to run cost analysis you'll have to figure average fuel prices of both fuels, maintenance, and the up-front acquisition cost. (which varies depending on trim level)

For me I want the diesel for all the reasons diesels are great. Economy, lower operating RPM's typically, torque (seat of the pants) acceleration feel, durability. That being said I wouldn't want any modern diesel without warranty coverage on it but that applies to gassers anymore too with repair costs being so high.

The Gen1 and Gen2 ED's had some issues with spinning main bearings, but I've not heard issues with the Gen3.

Partially-and something to keep in mind too-it depends on your overall driving requirements. If you only are doing 5-10 mile trips most of the time then the ED isn't your engine. Diesels need to be able to come up to operating temps on a regular basis for a multitude of reasons.....

 

[Johnny_H]

I occasionally regret not getting the ED. I love my Hemi, and am surprised with how much I like the etorque (an option I didn’t want but the truck was sitting on the lot so I took it). I own a BMW diesel suv and absolutely love it - 7 years and one minor repair on the emissions system covered under warranty. Doesn’t stink, amazing driveability and power, easy cold starts at -40 (much better than any gas engine I’ve owned), super reliable, and great mileage - but even so I was scared of the FCA ED. From what I’ve read the 5th gen is a huge improvement from the G4, to the point where I plan on waiting to see if the Grand Wagoneer comes with the ED and I’ll likely replace the BMW with a diesel GW if it materializes. These small diesels are such a great engine for SUV/light trucks, after 7 years with a German diesel I have zero regrets.


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[AMS Guru]

I occasionally regret not getting the ED. I love my Hemi, and am surprised with how much I like the etorque (an option I didn’t want but the truck was sitting on the lot so I took it). I own a BMW diesel suv and absolutely love it - 7 years and one minor repair on the emissions system covered under warranty. Doesn’t stink, amazing driveability and power, easy cold starts at -40 (much better than any gas engine I’ve owned), super reliable, and great mileage - but even so I was scared of the FCA ED. From what I’ve read the 5th gen is a huge improvement from the G4, to the point where I plan on waiting to see if the Grand Wagoneer comes with the ED and I’ll likely replace the BMW with a diesel GW if it materializes. These small diesels are such a great engine for SUV/light trucks, after 7 years with a German diesel I have zero regrets.


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The Europeans are experts at diesels. They experience less-than-ideal climates for a large portion of the year and have a MUCH higher market-share of diesels overall over there. This truck I have on order will be my 4th EcoDiesel and I'm looking forward to it. I've never driven the Hemi and don't care to (other than the TRX which I'd love to go hoon for an afternoon just because!! )

Yes, the oil changes cost more but you're usually only performing them half as often as opposed to the gassers. I hope RAM continues to offer the ED for a while and I'd LOVE to see it offered on the Jeep GC/Wagoneer!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cajun_]

Well, thats tough to say, I moved here from Georgia to Arizona in May. I've been driving allot here going to see places. I drive 20 miles to work one way daily. Plus the trips to the store, outings, etc...plus new sites....maybe ball park 15k

about 500 to 600 gallons a year on the ED vs 800 to 900 on the hemi. you can factor in local fuel costs and whatever other costs of ownerships you want but fuel economy alone you will cover the cost of the ED in about 3 years assuming $3.50 a gallon for both which is what it is here.

 

[Sascwatch]

I have owned my truck for less than two year now and I’m at close to 35000 miles. Up here in Ontario Canada diesel is usually cheaper than gasoline, combine that with the much better fuel economy and I’ve more than paid for the upgrade to the ecodiesel in less than two years.

Ecodiesel on my rebel was a $3900 Canadian upgrade with a $2500 early adopter diesel rebate.

I just got back from my moose hunting trip, three trucks drove up and hunted for the week a 1500 limited with the hemi, my rebel with the ecodiesel and a gmc 1500 with the 5.3. Over the entire 4200km trip which I towed a trailer for 1500km my fuel bull was over $200 less than the other trucks.

 

[mhb1638]

I have owned my truck for less than two year now and I’m at close to 35000 miles. Up here in Ontario Canada diesel is usually cheaper than gasoline, combine that with the much better fuel economy and I’ve more than paid for the upgrade to the ecodiesel in less than two years.

Ecodiesel on my rebel was a $3900 Canadian upgrade with a $2500 early adopter diesel rebate.

I just got back from my moose hunting trip, three trucks drove up and hunted for the week a 1500 limited with the hemi, my rebel with the ecodiesel and a gmc 1500 with the 5.3. Over the entire 4200km trip which I towed a trailer for 1500km my fuel bull was over $200 less than the other trucks.

Got a pic of your truck sir? I'm sonsidering either white or red 2022 rebel or a granite night limited

 

[Sascwatch]

I don’t take many pics. But I do have this one of my two week old truck, brought it to our house up north thinking we’d be able to put it in 4low and drive into the driveway in march at -30… No winter cover was installed but I did plug it in overnight as temps dipped close to -40.

 

[silver billet]

Are the engines the same price? If not, at 2 or 3 years of ownership you will have a tough time getting your money back on ED based on your comments on how much you drive.

These discussions are always fun because there are too many variables:
- gas vs diesel is cheaper/more expensive depending on where you live
- the less time you keep it, the more you save money with the hemi and vice versa
- the less you drive it the better it is to own the hemi

Generally the ED favours long term ownership (5+ years), and at least 20,000+ miles per year. However if you have even one EGR related expense outside of warranty you have just blown whatever savings you have accumulated. I know guys who have spent 4000+ on EGR repairs, and well $4000 can feed the hemi for a loooonnnnng time.

The Gen 2 ED has poor reliablity, jury is still out on these new 3rd gen ED's but they appear to be better so far.

But some just prefer how the ED drives and that's that. It's not always about the money (like cloth seats which are cheaper and more durable, leather just has that feel to it that some are willing to pay extra for).

One other option is the v6 with the 3.55 if you plan to run bigger tires. It might surprise you and you don't drive much anyway, if you can accept the performance then that is definitely the cheapest option.

 

[tom318]

If you like the way the ED drives then don’t be so concerned about “making up the cost”. That’s always everyones argument against it. Not sure how many justified the extra cost over the v6 or the extra cost on the 12” touchscreen option. Many of us get these options because we like them. I think to get the ED, you need to like it. It’s not likely your will save money unless you really drive a ton and do you own servicing and nothing goes wrong..... If you don’t service it yourself or find a reasonable dealership/independent shop for simple services then your in for some nasty bills. I do my own oil/fuel/air/cabin filters and after 1yr and 35k miles it cost me about $900 in maintenance(including DEF). At a dealer it would easily be double. If your hoping to get the ED to save you money then look the other way, you won’t. I have the ED and absolutely love it. For me, I prefer the diesel for daily driving and towing. The 33gal tank and 850miles of range is just awesome on trips!

 

[AMS Guru]

If you like the way the ED drives then don’t be so concerned about “making up the cost”. That’s always everyones argument against it. Not sure how many justified the extra cost over the v6 or the extra cost on the 12” touchscreen option. Many of us get these options because we like them. I think to get the ED, you need to like it. It’s not likely your will save money unless you really drive a ton and do you own servicing and nothing goes wrong..... If you don’t service it yourself or find a reasonable dealership/independent shop for simple services then your in for some nasty bills. I do my own oil/fuel/air/cabin filters and after 1yr and 35k miles it cost me about $900 in maintenance(including DEF). At a dealer it would easily be double. If your hoping to get the ED to save you money then look the other way, you won’t. I have the ED and absolutely love it. For me, I prefer the diesel for daily driving and towing. The 33gal tank and 850miles of range is just awesome on trips!

Could not have said this any better myself!! Thank you for putting it best!

 

[Johnny_H]

Serious question but is it really that much? My BMW diesel gets serviced once a year and it’s never more than $500. The first four years were free mind you, but still, I can’t see a domestic small diesel being that much more - especially if you get a service pack with purchase.

At the end of the day I agree with above - it’s more about preference and performance versus overall cost - otherwise we’d all be driving a tradesman v6!


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[SpeedyV]

Are the engines the same price? If not, at 2 or 3 years of ownership you will have a tough time getting your money back on ED based on your comments on how much you drive.

These discussions are always fun because there are too many variables:
- gas vs diesel is cheaper/more expensive depending on where you live
- the less time you keep it, the more you save money with the hemi and vice versa
- the less you drive it the better it is to own the hemi

Generally the ED favours long term ownership (5+ years), and at least 20,000+ miles per year. However if you have even one EGR related expense outside of warranty you have just blown whatever savings you have accumulated. I know guys who have spent 4000+ on EGR repairs, and well $4000 can feed the hemi for a loooonnnnng time.

The Gen 2 ED has poor reliablity, jury is still out on these new 3rd gen ED's but they appear to be better so far.

But some just prefer how the ED drives and that's that. It's not always about the money (like cloth seats which are cheaper and more durable, leather just has that feel to it that some are willing to pay extra for).

One other option is the v6 with the 3.55 if you plan to run bigger tires. It might surprise you and you don't drive much anyway, if you can accept the performance then that is definitely the cheapest option.

I was surprised not to see more discussion on long-term maintenance costs of a diesel. It is what it is. There are reasons for us to have a lot of diesels on our farm. There are also reasons why our non-farm road-going vehicles are mostly gas-fueled.

To the OP...buy what you like. It sounds like you're not going crazy with a lift, so performance will be fine with either drivetrain. The diesel gives you solid low-end torque, but the HEMI is much more enjoyable on the highway (e.g. passing at 70+ mph...no comparison). You said you typically hang onto vehicles for 2-3 years, so you (probably) won't keep the truck long enough to face an out-of-warranty repair bill. You also (probably) won't make up the purchase price difference in 2-3 years if you opt for the ED. So again...buy what you like

 

[mhb1638]

I really appreciate everyone's inputs and assistance here. Truly. I was merely considering the ED over hemi due to fuel costs and range. Where I'm at fuel and diesel are neck and neck on prices. I realize there is a $2700 upcharge over the hemi according to the build sheet. I'm not sure how many "years" it would take to make that up either. I really like seeing 24mpg on my display too. The hemi I had was 15/19. Then 16 with the tires. I'm also looking at the Hemi with etorque to justify the hemi purchase.
Thing is in Arizona, everywhere is interstate mostly. I also usually keep trucks under 3 years as well. So I may not recoup that upfront expense. So maybe the hemi is a better option?

 

[mhb1638]

I was surprised not to see more discussion on long-term maintenance costs of a diesel. It is what it is. There are reasons for us to have a lot of diesels on our farm. There are also reasons why our non-farm road-going vehicles are mostly gas-fueled.

To the OP...buy what you like. It sounds like you're not going crazy with a lift, so performance will be fine with either drivetrain. The diesel gives you solid low-end torque, but the HEMI is much more enjoyable on the highway (e.g. passing at 70+ mph...no comparison). You said you typically hang onto vehicles for 2-3 years, so you (probably) won't keep the truck long enough to face an out-of-warranty repair bill. You also (probably) won't make up the purchase price difference in 2-3 years if you opt for the ED. So again...buy what you like

Was thinking along the same