Diesel vs 6.4?

[RevRon]

I have enjoyed my 2020 Ram Laramie, but I have changed from a bumper pull trailer to a 5th wheel and need more towing power. I am upgrading to a Ram 2500. I have two on the hook that have the same equipment except the motor. One is a diesel and the other is the 6.4. The diesel can tow 20,000lbs+. The 6.4 has the 4.10 towing gear that helps it to tow up to 16,800 lbs. My trailer isn't but 12,000 lbs dryweight, then I have to add people and equipment. I've never had a diesel, so take me to school, please. What do you know to be the facts of either? Thanks!

 

[devildodge]

Get the 6.4l If you never had a diesel there is no need to get one.

And you will find much more info about thr HeftyDuty trucks at our sister site www.HDRams.com

An active debate is going on there as we speak.

 

[zrader4143]

Your're going to need a 3500 if you want a diesel....Diesel payload in the 2500 can't handle your fifth wheel pin weight. Was in this same situation with a fifth wheel that weighed less than yours....all about payload with 5th wheels

The 6.4 2500 might have enough payload....what is your pin weight?

 

[flyfingers]

12,000 lbs dry weight + passengers, gear, water, propane, fuel..... Overall the diesel will be a much nicer towing experience with engine RPM's staying much lower when towing. The gasser will be fantastic when tooling around town but once you hook up 14,000 lbs behind it, you'll know it. Pick your poison I guess.

 

[silver billet]

With that weight you're on the limit of what I personally would pull with the gas. And as was already mentioned, if you want the diesel then get the 3500 due to payload being too low in a diesel 2500. 2500 is more than fine with the 6.4 gas (in terms of payload).

 

[Royalist_Ram]

So again yeah check out the HDforums link; but I may be able to provide some insight. My mom has a 2020 HD 2500 6.4 for our farm. It pulls a 10k trailer Vid gooseneck and with everything is like 12.5-13k. Issue is, it’s max is about 14k, never mind tongue weight and payload. She also does nothing but city driving at speeds of 45mph and below. So a diesel doesn’t make sense, however it’s the lower axle ratio as well. So the fact you’re gonna tow 12,000 Lbs, at least get a 3500. In regards to gas or diesel at that point. If you’re going to tow more than once a week or several times a month, get a diesel. But if you don’t or don’t wanna deal with all the hassle, get a gas; but again go ahead and get a 3500 and deal with leaf springs.

 

[RevRon]

The hitch weight in my 5th wheel is 2,355. A diesel 3500, really? The diesel 2500 won't handle it, really? The gas 2500 with a 4.10 won't handle it, really?

 

[silver billet]

The hitch weight in my 5th wheel is 2,355. A diesel 3500, really? The diesel 2500 won't handle it, really? The gas 2500 with a 4.10 won't handle it, really?

Really.

As was mentioned, the diesel pulling power is not the problem; the payload in a 2500 diesel is the problem, the diesel weighs hundreds of pounds more than the 6.4 hemi does, so all that engine weight detracts from the payload. Some loaded 2500 diesels can have the same payload as some barebone 1500's, which is not enough for a 5w. 12000 pound (dry) 5w = about 12000 * .23 = 2700 pounds of pin weight. You can overload a 2500 diesel just by attaching your empty 5w to it, never mind adding cargo to it and/or your truck.

So yes, 2500 diesel is not the best choice.

3500 diesel will have significantly more payload, but the same pulling power (if you stay with the standard output cummins, high output of course gives you more pulling power yet)

As for a 2500/6.4; it will pull it, but we all have our own comfort levels. Some people don't like listening to a v8 working hard for hours on end, double that if you have any mountains or hills in your trip.

 

[Fuzznutz]

I'd get the Cummins all day everyday with that 5er. But I've owned 3 in the past.....a 2008, a 2012, and a 2015. All mine were tuned and deleted. However if you know little to nothing about diesel power, and especially new emissions diesel power, if the gasser will do the job, it might be best. And by do the job I mean if you only go on multiple short trips with the camper, and an occasional long haul. If you go on multiple long hauls I'd suggest the Cummins again, and learn quickly about diesel power if you need to. The new Cummins can be a real pain in the a$$. It's not the Cummins fault though. It's still the same old basic ultra reliable in line 6 it's always been. The dang emissions is what has its fair share of problems, but even those have gotten better over the years. But still the Cummins don't really like being a grocery getter when it's not pulling the camper either. I'd suggest you read as much as possible and figure out what's best for your needs. They both will do the job. The Cummins will do the job effortlessly and way better, but might not be the right truck for your other needs.

Sent from my SM-A426U using Tapatalk

 

[RevRon]

Thanks for all the seasoned input... and I'm open to more! I am strongly leaning on the 6.4 gas. It has the 4.10 rear end and can pull 16,800 lbs. That should pull the empty weight and added stuff, fine. I know I will sacrifice gas mileage if I drive it around town, but pick my poison. Most of my driving will not be pulling the trailer, and when I pull it 4-5-6 times a year, it will be less that a few hours. What am I missing?

 

[silver billet]

You're not missing anything, other than possibly room to upgrade your trailer in the future in which case a 6.4 might be soon under powered.

The 2500/6.4 will pull it. A 3500/cummins will do a much better job pulling it. Only you can decide whether you want to listen to your hemi working hard for a few hours 6 times a year, whether it has enough passing power, or enough power to climb hills/grades/mountains (if you have them) etc etc.

So we're not saying you can't do it with a 2500/6.4, just that many would prefer to upgrade to the cummins with that kind of load. Others don't care and just hate everything to do with diesel and think a hemi working at 3000+ rpms is the best thing ever. Its your preference, we can't tell you what you're going to like.

You're on the edge of 6.4 vs cummins territory, it can go either way.

 

[RevRon]

I don't understand... why a Ram 2500 diesel won't do the job? Please help me...

 

[Royalist_Ram]

The hitch weight in my 5th wheel is 2,355. A diesel 3500, really? The diesel 2500 won't handle it, really? The gas 2500 with a 4.10 won't handle it, really?

Yes really, see payload and tongue weight. I doubt you’re getting a tradesman too. As far as diesel 2500, you said you won’t be pulling more than 10x a year. Get a gas 3500. And that 16k for a 4.10 Is for what trim? The higher the trim, the more weight, the less payload and towing capability.

 

[LaxDfns15]

Thanks for all the seasoned input... and I'm open to more! I am strongly leaning on the 6.4 gas. It has the 4.10 rear end and can pull 16,800 lbs. That should pull the empty weight and added stuff, fine. I know I will sacrifice gas mileage if I drive it around town, but pick my poison. Most of my driving will not be pulling the trailer, and when I pull it 4-5-6 times a year, it will be less that a few hours. What am I missing?

You keep talking about pulling power. Both trucks have plenty of PULLING power. They do not have the PAYLOAD to carry the weight. Go open the driver door and look at the sticker that says "Combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXXX pounds." As others have said, you're going to have at least 2000 pounds JUST from the dry pin weight. If the payload on either or both trucks is at or below 2500 pounds you will almost certainly be over payload when towing.

It's the exact same issue with every 1500. Yeah, this truck can pull 11,000 pounds. Does that mean I should hook up a 2000 pound hitch weight trailer to my truck with only 1500 pounds of payload? No.

 

[RevRon]

I am getting the Tradesman 2500, gas motor, 4.10. rear end. It has everything I want on it except the radio. It has the small 5" radio, but that will do for now. I'm studying on all that you gents are saying. Thanks.

 

[silver billet]

Lets put it this way. You're out in the arctic and need to pull a sled on the snow behind you. You also have a knapsack that you strap to your shoulders.

I suspect you are simply looking at the trucks tow rating and saying "I can pull whatever I want", but you have to keep in mind that whatever you add to your knapsack is going to really stress you out. You need to balance everything so that you don't go overweight on your shoulders while trying to pull the sled behind you.

The cummins is like filling up your knapsack almost to the top; that engine is so heavy, that your truck simply does not have any room left to carry much in terms of cargo, pin weight from a 5w (which is extremely heavy as well), and passengers. The hemi is much lighter, leaving room in your knapsack for other cargo etc.

So the hemi is much lighter, you can stuff more in your truck because the weight from the cummins is gone; I'm not sure on specifics, but if it is 800 pounds heavier than the hemi, well that's 800 pounds you get back for cargo and/or weight of the trailer on the back of your truck if you pick the hemi.

But even if you have managed the weight of your knapsack and got that ironed out, you still need to worry about what you're trying to pull behind you on the sled, that has its own limits. Just because the truck is rated to pull > 15000 pounds, doesn't mean you're going to enjoy that experience. The more you tow, the further you go, the more you might wish you went with a more powerful engine.

As I said, that kind of weight is sort of on the edge of cummins territory, only you can ultimately decide if the hemi has enough power for your taste, but many would prefer the cummins at that point.

However, the cummins is too heavy for a 2500 trying to pull your trailer. Moving up to a 3500 is like going to the gym, building muscle, and buying a bigger knapsack. Now you have so much more room in that knapsack (3500) that the extra weight of the cummins is no longer a problem.

That is why you're getting recommendations for either:
2500/6.4
3500/cummins

Both of those trucks will probably give you enough room in the knapsack to carry everything; cargo in the truck, occupants, weight of the trailer on the back of your bed; but the cummins is much much stronger so pulling the load will be a much nicer experience.

 

[RevRon]

Thanks so very much. It's a lot to chew on.