Diesels usually hold their value a bit better, hard to say if this new engine will or not. To early to tell. Those lucky enough to get into a truck below msrp before all this COVID crap happened should make out good either way when it comes time to trade in or sell.
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Diesel Rebel owners - How is your economy? How's your truck?
- Thread starter Borsig
- Start date
PoopsMcGee
Active Member
So I've been researching a the 5.7 vs the Diesel. Warning, long read and math ahead. But when you're about to spend $65k+, why not read a little more?
According to user posts on these forms and YouTube video fuel efficiency tests, the 5.7l V8 Rebel gets anywhere from 15-18 combined average mpg, while the diesel gets anywhere from 22-26 combined.
The average person travels 12,000 miles average a year, so let's use that for our math:
The 5.7l would get you 12000 miles a year divided by 16mpg, equalling 750 gallons of gas a year. Let's say you only use 87 as a way to save money. The average for 87 here in Az is $4.29. Obviously gas will fluctuate, but for the sake of simplicity let's keep it average of $4.29. So, 750 gallons of 87 a year is $3217 a year in gas total.
The 3.0l diesel at 12000 miles a year/23 mpg = 521 gallons of gas a year. Average diesel here in Az is 4.83, so $4.83×521 gallons a year = $2520 spent on diesel a year. Also add in the extra costs of running a diesel: 12 bottles of DEF at $8 a bottle per 1k is +$96 a year. Also add an extra $100 for the oil change cost difference on diesels, and that's a total of $2716 a year.
$3217 to run a V8 - $2716 to run the diesel is the difference of $501 a year.
The diesel engine trim on th Ram website is $2700 more than the V8. That means $2700 cost difference divided by the $501 year difference between the engines would be 5.4 years to cover the cost difference. Meaning, after five and a half years of driving 12k and staying the average fuel efficiency, you'd finally have started to get the diesel to pay for itself.
Also note that there's a significant "fun factor" drop off between the diesel and the V8. And if you want a diesel but are looking at other brands, do note that from the videos I've watched, the Ram diesel is +2 seconds slower than the inline 6 GM diesel. So the Ram diesel is a slower engine overall. That said, it still performs well off road, and is a towing monster.
TLDR:
If you drive it longer than five years, and gas stays within about $.60 of eachother, and don't mind the complete drop in horsepower, then diesel doesn't seem to be a bad option on the Rebel, as long as you're fine with it losing a lot of fun factor.
According to user posts on these forms and YouTube video fuel efficiency tests, the 5.7l V8 Rebel gets anywhere from 15-18 combined average mpg, while the diesel gets anywhere from 22-26 combined.
The average person travels 12,000 miles average a year, so let's use that for our math:
The 5.7l would get you 12000 miles a year divided by 16mpg, equalling 750 gallons of gas a year. Let's say you only use 87 as a way to save money. The average for 87 here in Az is $4.29. Obviously gas will fluctuate, but for the sake of simplicity let's keep it average of $4.29. So, 750 gallons of 87 a year is $3217 a year in gas total.
The 3.0l diesel at 12000 miles a year/23 mpg = 521 gallons of gas a year. Average diesel here in Az is 4.83, so $4.83×521 gallons a year = $2520 spent on diesel a year. Also add in the extra costs of running a diesel: 12 bottles of DEF at $8 a bottle per 1k is +$96 a year. Also add an extra $100 for the oil change cost difference on diesels, and that's a total of $2716 a year.
$3217 to run a V8 - $2716 to run the diesel is the difference of $501 a year.
The diesel engine trim on th Ram website is $2700 more than the V8. That means $2700 cost difference divided by the $501 year difference between the engines would be 5.4 years to cover the cost difference. Meaning, after five and a half years of driving 12k and staying the average fuel efficiency, you'd finally have started to get the diesel to pay for itself.
Also note that there's a significant "fun factor" drop off between the diesel and the V8. And if you want a diesel but are looking at other brands, do note that from the videos I've watched, the Ram diesel is +2 seconds slower than the inline 6 GM diesel. So the Ram diesel is a slower engine overall. That said, it still performs well off road, and is a towing monster.
TLDR:
If you drive it longer than five years, and gas stays within about $.60 of eachother, and don't mind the complete drop in horsepower, then diesel doesn't seem to be a bad option on the Rebel, as long as you're fine with it losing a lot of fun factor.
I think there’s a fatal flaw in this logic of the fun ratio and mpg. To get that 15 mpg average (pen and paper method) of the hemi if doing at least 75/25 mixed driving, it needs to be babied enough that it takes the fun out of it (yes, the mpg average readout, a.k.a. “lie-o-meter,” is lying- it doesn’t get 20+mpg average).
The diesel, however, can be driven moderately hard and average 22-24- no fun lost. Babying the diesel the way the hemi needs to be babied nets between 28-30mpg (pen and paper method).
Since most of what was highlighted was fun factor, I’ll start with the purely subjective stuff:
The hemi in these trucks is not fun to begin with. It’s woefully underpowered and desperately needs forced induction if you’re not going to swap a larger engine like a 6.4.
The Diesel is not as quick as the hemi, but diesel’s turbo does a great job at making it fun. It also does vastly better when pairing it with more unsprung weight (heavy wheels and tires); it’s like the diesel doesn’t notice the extra weight at all.
Staying within the subjective realm and giving anecdotal evidence: I had a ‘21 hemi 1500 and traded it on the ecodiesel. Put the same wheels and tires on the ‘22 and drive it the same (that’s almost ingrained now), and I’ve doubled mpg. Doubled. I spent a little over $3000 in four months on gas for the hemi and I’ve halved that. Spread that over four years and that is significant.
PoopsMcGee
Active Member
Fantastic points. I have yet to test the 5.7L but I assumed it was much better than the diesel, but apparently not.
Have been going back and forth on this, and the 6.2 GM motor in the AT4/ZR2. But it sounds like the diesel is peppy enough to have some grit while still being amazing at mpg's.
Sounds like a diesel Rebel may be my best bet. Even if gas prices level out and drop back into the $3 range, if I plan on keeping this truck for 7-10 years, I'm sure there will be periods of fluctuation where I wish I had a diesel.
Thanks for your input. Anecdotal experience like this helps those of us still on the fence with trims, engines, and even brands.
Thanks for this post. I did similar math to the post your're responding to and likewise estimated it would take me 5 to 6 yrs to break even on buying the diesel. However, I think I am probably under-estimating the "babying" of the hemi that will be needed. Especially since I drive a '07 Subaru Outback XT right now. It's a 2.5L, 240HP turbo engine and it's a blast to drive. Over on the other Rebel mpg thread somebody commented on a post I made the other day and said that if I drive a Rebel the way I drive the Subaru I won't get 15mpg. I have 15 years of muscle memory of driving the Subaru - what's the chance I'm going to change and drive the Rebel "like grandma" ? Realistically, it's not going to happen !
All this to say, I have a Rebel on order, actually it's delivered to the dealer, but it arrived damaged ( a vehicle above it on the transporter sustained a broken window and bits of glass rained down on my truck - nicks all over the hood and roof. So it's gone to the body shop for repairs. Stellantis gets to pay for the damage ). I was planning to still accept the truck but hopefully negotiate an additional discount. However, given the damage exceeds my deposit, I have the right to cancel or change the order. Your post has just about made up my mind to re-order with the eco-diesel. I've just reached out to the dealer for a quote.
By the way, I notice in your signature you have a Laramie with ORG : I went back and forth for days between that configuration or the Rebel when ordering. Do you think you probably lose a little mpg with the ORG since it makes the truck heavier ? I got the impression there might not be a lot of mpg difference between a Rebel and a Laramie with ORG, but that may not be correct. The Rebel does have that 1" factory lift which is not going to help aerodynamics. I settled on the Rebel eventually because the design appealed to me more.
SD Rebel
Spends too much time on here
It's not a lie, except on FCA's part. The EPA tested a regular RAM Laramie with 18" street tires and 3.21 axle. Then FCA blanket stated all trims with that same EPA rating, which they are allowed to do by law, but they can do an exception to lower them for specific models. FCA decided not to lower the Rebels, which is clearly fraudulent in my mind, though not technically.
One other piece of data that further changes things a little in favor of the diesel is that the ramtrucks website isn't up to date for pricing. You noted that the diesel is +2700 over the Hemi, and that's indeed what the website has. But, if you go get an official POC from a dealer, you'll discover that the Hemi went up by $500 in mid January and is now +2795 over the base V6 model. ( I put in an order on Jan 15th and when I got an updated POC with VIN a few days later, the Hemi line item had gone up to 2795. Fortunately I was price-protected. By the way, the Level 2 equipment group is actually $3200 today and not $2930 which the website states )
The diesel has not gone up and is still + 4995 over the base model. ( I just got a quote today because I'm about to change my order from Hemi to diesel ).
So it's +2200 for the diesel today, which further reduces the time to recoup the extra cost, and if you assume 13mpg for the paper study rather than 15 as an average, and assume 22mpg for the diesel, it's more in favor of the diesel. There's still the maintenance costs on the diesel of course and the "fingers crossed" that they've fixed the issues on the Gen1 and Gen2 diesels ! The evidence seems to suggest they mostly have.
It doesn’t help mpg any, but I just installed a banks Derringer this afternoon and the butt-dyno makes it feel faster than the hemi. It’s really pretty amazing.
The biggest downside right now to the diesel is my emotions at the pump. I just paid $119 for 22 gallons of diesel. That still hurts to see no matter what my mpg is.
I decided to post in here because the weight of my wheel/tire setup and aftermarket suspension messing with aerodynamics brings it fairly close to an apples to apples comparison of the rebel. I understand if people don’t feel it’s close enough. The laramie does hold a slight mpg advantage when paired with lightweight H/T tires, so I left that comparison out.
Even with the extra potential problems, it was 100% worth it to me to get the ecodiesel. How can I not be thrilled with a giant truck that beats my 2.0T accord in real-world gas mileage? Plus now that I just put the Banks Derringer tuner on, the ecodiesel pulls unbelievably hard almost all the way to redline. That tuner has made this truck really fun.
If you haven’t ordered yet, wait a month or two before ordering. Incentives will go up, and there will be a glut of trade-ins of gas guzzler style vehicles. I just heard today that some dealers are mandating 10% lower trade-in values for diesels and gas guzzler. That will only increase, as will incentives. The higher the gas prices, the better the deal you’ll get. We are coming into a buyer’s market for trucks again.
I’m on the fence and actually walked away from this 2022 Ecodiesel i ordered it and the dealership let me take it for the weekend. It was definitely not as quick as my 2019 Rebel Hemi and surprisingly it did not tow my boat as easily as my Hemi. Very disappointed the fuel mileage was great but that’s about all it did better in my experience.
Attachments
PoopsMcGee
Active Member
Surprised it didn't tow better. I don't tow much though so doesn't bother me there.
How big a difference is it from the V8?
It’s not that it towed bad but the hemi was just a little better towing my boat. The ecodiesel turbo was definitely spooling and you could feel the weight a little more. Maybe a heavier load would give different results I dunno.
PoopsMcGee
Active Member
Regret the diesel or nah? Curious because I'm gonna pull the trigger soon
I didn’t buy it lol but I like fast over MPG’s so I’m sure that weighed in on my decision. If I was ok with it being slow I would have bought it for the mpg.
Rebelguy2020
Ram Guru
To fill my Rebel with diesel if it was completely empty at todays fuel prices in Ottawa Ontario Canada, some gas station are up to $2.36 per litre X 98 L fuel tank = $231.28 that’s crazy.
I found a gas station at $2.14/litre and cost me $100 to fill up and my truck was slightly above have full, I put 46.5 litres. I’m happy to be retired and not having to travel 30 miles to work.
That’s terrible. The good thing is we know from other gas events in the past that this too will pass. It will probably never go back to what it was, but it will decrease.
Rebelguy2020
Ram Guru
I do think you’re right, I hope it come down before mid summer, I will be towing a small travel trailer across to eastern Canada, then ferry to Newfoundland.
I have absolutely no regrets buying my diesel Rebel, I am visiting my children near Ottawa, it’s 500 miles south east from my home town and it felt good to take my truck for a good run, 26 mpg US or 31 mpg Canadian on winter fuel, impressive.
I have been using my truck for city driving since my retirement January 6th, and towing my Kubota tractor to my mom’s after every snowfall, it’s been a record year for the amount of snow, it’s cold too so more idling warm up time, my truck averages 15 mpg (us gallon) near 20 mpg Can. My previous 2011 Hemi achieved those numbers at best in the summer on the highway without towing!
I bought a OBDlink MX+ a year after owning my truck and have been monitoring the soot mass % and regeneration cycles, my truck has over 26,000 miles and has regenerated 38 times, average 700 miles between cycles, the soot % goes up in city driving but goes down when driving on the highway, I had never noticed a regeneration cycle before buying the OBD reader, my truck never gave me a message to keep driving to complete a regeneration cycle. I did see a few regenerations cycles since monitoring the OBD reader, the exhaust gas temperature shoots up and the soot mass drops rapidly, I was city driving and I let it complete its cycle before stopping the engine, it only took a few minutes.
Funny you mention that about the OBD reader. I just got a banks tuner and this is the first time that I’ve noticed it hit a regen cycle.
Chris3058
Ram Guru
Just drove from Barrie, ON to Tampa, FL. 2458 kms. Avg / hand calculated at 75 mph average / 8.4 l / 100 kms. That’s through WVA, VA, NC Mountains. If you live there you know the route. Diesel where I live is around 7.50 US a gallon (2.25 CDN/ Litre). Paying 4.99 a gallon ain’t bad for me. Still expensive as hell and never had gas station people apologize for the pricing. Especially in GA. That one guy was super apologetic. I can’t complain. When you’re at 3/4 tank showing 780 kms (463 miles) I’ll take it.
mhb1638
Well-Known Member
I've owned a few 5th gen rams (don't ask) and currently a 22 Rebel ED. Above statements are very true when you compare alterations to the vehicle. My previous 20 Limited Hemi 3.92 dropped 2mpg when i added a level and 34" tires. ED don't take such a hit, least in my experience. Furthermore, I spent about a grand or so on a GDE tune and it made a HUGE difference in the truck and I picked up 1-2MPG more depending on the road conditions. Yes, gas hurts the wallet and diesel is now much higher than gas (was very close in price ) but it makes me feel good seeing 23 MPG combines lol. Finally, a Hemi ram and Hemi Rebel are much different in fuel consumption.
