Did I buy the wrong truck?

[SilverNight2020]

My ECO light is always on when MDS is engaged and off when MDS is not engaged. The RAM manual says that ECO Mode Indicator Light will turn on when ECO mode is active. When ECO Mode is on; MDS is engaged. It has not been proven wrong. On the older RAMS, ECO mode showed up when you were driving economically. In the 5th Gens, when you are driving economically the MDS and ECO mode are simultaneous. I can tell you without a doubt that for the past two years I have been driving my truck the ECO Mode and MDS are in fact on at the same time and off at the same time.

Great, so I am not losing my mind. At least not in this case. I appreciate the confirmation.

 

[PowerJrod]

Great, so I am not losing my mind. At least not in this case. I appreciate the confirmation.

Lmao. I have noticed that my Eco light will sometimes come on a few seconds before I feel MDS kick in...but otherwise the eco light is always on during MDS.

 

[BowDown]

This has been proven wrong multiple times. Light does not equal MDS.

You're 100% wrong on this in Gen 5 Rams, look in the manual

 

[jdmartin]

OK, Original Poster (Wally world?), here are two thoughts:

1. It is amazing how fast the body adapts to just about anything. Things you thought were impossible to live with at first you don't even notice in a week or two. Once upon a time I lived in a small midwest town that was on a major railroad spur. 30 or more trains came through every day at high speed, and they blew their whistle at every street crossing of which there were about 12. You could feel the ground rumble for a couple of miles before they got there and after they left, and the whistle sounded like it was inside your house. The first 3 weeks I lived there I slept about 40 minutes of every hour, because the rumble and the whistle woke me up every time. By the time I was there a couple of months I didn't even notice when a train was going by. So you might just give it a little time to see if it's just the weirdness of it being new.

2. If you really, really hate a feature about your vehicle and it's integral to the vehicle - the way E-torque is with the Ram - then a couple of thousand dollars is chump change on a $45-50k vehicle. Think about it - you'd be taking a 4% loss, assuming even to even equity in what you bought vs. your truck now. There's been lots of times in my life I would have gladly absorbed a 4% loss to have greater happiness. Think about how many things you absorb a 100% loss just for happiness - every time you drop 40 bucks at the movies, or run a $100 tab at the sports bar watching your team kick the **** out of the other team. What kind of gain do you get for your money there? Nothing - if anything, you probably got fatter and killed some brain cells and your liver a little more. But you got enjoyment, and that was worth the 100% loss. So just keep the loss in perspective.

 

[BowDown]

I simply think his expectations were way off and they'll likely be off again with the next truck, not enough due diligence on the OPs part

 

[Adrianp89]

You're 100% wrong on this in Gen 5 Rams, look in the manual

I did, and it does not say that.

"This light will turn on when ECO Mode is active. " This is the only mention of the light I can find in the entire manual. There is no definition of ECO Mode, nor is mention of MDS.
I have not seen any evidence otherwise. Are they related? Of course and very closely - If MDS is on, then the light should be on, but you can also be driving without MDS active and the light be on. Hence why the light will come on a split second after you let of the accelerator, but go away with even a slight press. The Pentastar does not have MDS but has an ECO mode light. When you use a tuner to disable MDS, the light still comes on. You can also still get the Eco-light with tow mode active (which disables top gear, and thus MDS)

Ram, to my knowledge, has not come out and said one way or another, nor do I see documentation supporting one or the other. However, evidence strongly points that they are not related.

 

[Adrianp89]

Please help me understand this. Where do you find this information? A Google search just took me to a bunch of questions about MDS. It is my understanding MDS is indicated not only by the change in exhaust note when driving, but also by the ECO light that comes on my infotainment center.

Several years on the forums, with many threads discussing this, (which also can be found by searching with right keywords) provides the evidence to make the reasonable assumption. See my post above.

 

[BowDown]

I did, and it does not say that.

"This light will turn on when ECO Mode is active. " This is the only mention of the light I can find in the entire manual. There is no definition of ECO Mode, nor is mention of MDS.
I have not seen any evidence otherwise. Are they related? Of course and very closely - If MDS is on, then the light should be on, but you can also be driving without MDS active and the light be on. Hence why the light will come on a split second after you let of the accelerator, but go away with even a slight press. The Pentastar does not have MDS but has an ECO mode light. When you use a tuner to disable MDS, the light still comes on. You can also still get the Eco-light with tow mode active (which disables top gear, and thus MDS)

Ram, to my knowledge, has not come out and said one way or another, nor do I see documentation supporting one or the other. However, evidence strongly points that they are not related.

Given that the only eco mode on the vehicle is MDS, pretty sure eco MODE, the operative word being MODE, means MDS is active. Eco mode is not a driving style in the Gen 5 . When coasting, the light doesn't come on but your driving economically, not sure why people keep arguing this

 

[silver billet]

I did, and it does not say that.

"This light will turn on when ECO Mode is active. " This is the only mention of the light I can find in the entire manual. There is no definition of ECO Mode, nor is mention of MDS.
I have not seen any evidence otherwise. Are they related? Of course and very closely - If MDS is on, then the light should be on, but you can also be driving without MDS active and the light be on. Hence why the light will come on a split second after you let of the accelerator, but go away with even a slight press. The Pentastar does not have MDS but has an ECO mode light. When you use a tuner to disable MDS, the light still comes on. You can also still get the Eco-light with tow mode active (which disables top gear, and thus MDS)

Ram, to my knowledge, has not come out and said one way or another, nor do I see documentation supporting one or the other. However, evidence strongly points that they are not related.

You're wrong on this. I've tested it at least 20 times specifically to see whether ECO = MDS, and it does.

Drive down a long hill on the freeway, ECO light comes on, feel the MDS tug. Then engage gear limiter. MDS tug, ECO light goes off. Like clockwork, 100% of the time. When the hill is long enough, you can repeat the test 10 times in a row, and ten out of ten times the ECO light flickers with the MDS tug.

In fact, since owning my truck, I have put 30,000 KM on it, and other than short tests (which clearly had the ECO light going on and off with MDS), I drive with MDS disabled. And guess what? ECO light never shows up in my truck. I haven't seen it in months.

ECO = MDS.

 

[Adrianp89]

No, MDS = ECO but ECO does not = MDS, simplest way to understand this is that you still get ECO light in tow mode.

 

[BowDown]

No, MDS = ECO but ECO does not = MDS, simplest way to understand this is that you still get ECO light in tow mode.

ECO light doesn't come on unless the vehicle is operating in MDS mode ergo ECO = MDS.
Does ECO light come on when NOT in MDS, NO.
What other eco modes are their on this truck?
The light still comes on in tow/haul, do you understand what tow haul does?

 

[Wsmith]

No, MDS = ECO but ECO does not = MDS, simplest way to understand this is that you still get ECO light in tow mode.

I am not arguing, but in my case I can feel the MDS kick in when it does eco on. I have never seen the eco light on without feeling the MDS engage. The book says that the auto locks activate at 15mph as well, mine activate between 15mph and 40, sometimes immediately, sometimes whenever the gremlin tells them to. I am not trying to be a d***, but I read in my manual about the 15mph and can assure anyone that what it says, in my case is no more than a guideline. To me MDS = ECO and ECO = MDS. Out.

 

[wallyuwl]

When it comes to trading in a vehicle...that's a whole different story. There is no "building equity" in a vehicle...ever. you might be able to reduce the debt to value ratio in a loan but thats about it. When you go to buy out a lease...you're paying what the vehicle is worth at that time...3 years later (for example). So you don't take a depreciation hit in the first year or two like you would on a new and financed vehicle. If you're trading in a vehicle that you're not even on...you pay any difference you have in the loan to value plus the cost of lease. Hope that makes sense. So not factoring in a trade... leasing is absolutely cheaper in the long run over financing. The insurance rates are about the same....plus dealers are more likely to provide more free maintenance to a leased vehicle.

I see what you're saying. I agree, building equity isn't the right term, reducing the debt to value ratio, like you said, is more appropriate because a vehicle is a depreciating asset.

In my specific situation I'd pay down the loan from about $29,200 to around $10,000 in three years. I'd pay almost the exact same in lease payments over three years. The truck will theoretically be worth around $30,000 in three years either on trade or lease buyout. So in three years I have almost $20,000 to roll into a new truck, or I cash out $12,795 now. Either way I'd have paid about $18,500 in truck payments over three years. This is the perspective I'm looking at it from.

 

[PowerJrod]

I see what you're saying. I agree, building equity isn't the right term, reducing the debt to value ratio, like you said, is more appropriate because a vehicle is a depreciating asset.

In my specific situation I'd pay down the loan from about $29,200 to around $10,000 in three years. I'd pay almost the exact same in lease payments over three years. The truck will theoretically be worth around $30,000 in three years either on trade or lease buyout. So in three years I have almost $20,000 to roll into a new truck, or I cash out $12,795 now. Either way I'd have paid about $18,500 in truck payments over three years. This is the perspective I'm looking at it from.

Right and in your case It might be about the same cost either way you go....but consider this...under a lease; the restrictions are a little more in the sense that you can drive only so many miles and certain maintenance has to be documented. Now if you went to trade in that lease, you'd be free and clear. However, if you look at it from a monthly payment point of view...lease payments are usually less than finance because there is no loan financing percentage you have to worry about. In turn...that's another reason that leasing is cheaper IF you choose to buy out at the end of the lease. So you would have a lower monthly payment as well as a lower total cost of the vehicle since it's worth less 3 years later than what it was when you first drove it off the lot.
A side note...most deslers don't want a leased vehicle returned...so they're more inclined to provide a better deal for that buyout.

 

[wallyuwl]

Thanks all for the input. A lot to dissect.

Right now I'm leaning toward keeping it a year or so and re-evaluating then. I've already taken the biggest hit just by it being titled and not new.

I have activated the gear icon in the settings, and it seems some of what I'm feeling is the downshifting between gears (but not always, some times it is the regen braking). I think the gear downshifting sensation is programmed a bit more harshly in the etorque trucks. I am going to try to run it in the +/- mode all the time and see how it acts.

I activated the eco button as well, and now see that basically any time I am coasting.

For 2022 MY the Rams will have the new vastly superior UConnect with wireless Carplay and Android Auto (and presumably a dash more like the new Highlander or Explorer or Mazdas, for example), and there will be a completely new Tundra out. I've had my eye on the new Tundra for a while, and was hoping it would be a 2021 MY. But I got out of my F150 because of the problems I had (I actually liked the truck, except for the color and problems) and the fact I got at least $7,000 more on trade than I could have pre-COVID. There is so much to like about the RAM compared to the current competition, though. So I think instead of losing $2k right now and being happier for now, but maybe wanting to move into a RAM with the new UConnect or the Tundra in a year or year and a half, if I'm going to lose some value I'd rather do it later than now.

Still not 100% sure, but this is what I'm leaning. Next time I'll make sure the truck is exactly what I want, even if the deal isn't the absolute best.

 

[PowerJrod]

Thanks all for the input. A lot to dissect.

Right now I'm leaning toward keeping it a year or so and re-evaluating then. I've already taken the biggest hit just by it being titled and not new.

I have activated the gear icon in the settings, and it seems some of what I'm feeling is the downshifting between gears (but not always, some times it is the regen braking). I think the gear downshifting sensation is programmed a bit more harshly in the etorque trucks. I am going to try to run it in the +/- mode all the time and see how it acts.

I activated the eco button as well, and now see that basically any time I am coasting.

For 2022 MY the Rams will have the new vastly superior UConnect with wireless Carplay and Android Auto (and presumably a dash more like the new Highlander or Explorer or Mazdas, for example), and there will be a completely new Tundra out. I've had my eye on the new Tundra for a while, and was hoping it would be a 2021 MY. But I got out of my F150 because of the problems I had (I actually liked the truck, except for the color and problems) and the fact I got at least $7,000 more on trade than I could have pre-COVID. There is so much to like about the RAM compared to the current competition, though. So I think instead of losing $2k right now and being happier for now, but maybe wanting to move into a RAM with the new UConnect or the Tundra in a year or year and a half, if I'm going to lose some value I'd rather do it later than now.

Still not 100% sure, but this is what I'm leaning. Next time I'll make sure the truck is exactly what I want, even if the deal isn't the absolute best.

Theres an ECO button...?

 

[SpeedyV]

This has been proven wrong multiple times. Light does not equal MDS.

Yes, it does (on 5th gens, i.e. this forum). This has been confirmed in numerous threads by many, many members on this forum.

Or maybe it is pure coincidence that the ECO light has come on ONLY when my truck kicks into MDS and shuts off ONLY with the tell-tale “whump” of leaving MDS in the past 25 months of driving my 5th gen?

 

[SpeedyV]

Several years on the forums, with many threads discussing this, (which also can be found by searching with right keywords) provides the evidence to make the reasonable assumption. See my post above.

As one of the first members here, I completely disagree.

 

[SpeedyV]

ECO light doesn't come on unless the vehicle is operating in MDS mode ergo ECO = MDS.
Does ECO light come on when NOT in MDS, NO.
What other eco modes are their on this truck?
The light still comes on in tow/haul, do you understand what tow haul does?

I don’t get an ECO light (or MDS) in Tow/Haul mode. It’s one of the things that Tow/Haul disengages (along with stop/start, Aero mode, and of course the change in shift points).

 

[silver billet]

No, MDS = ECO but ECO does not = MDS, simplest way to understand this is that you still get ECO light in tow mode.

I certainly don't. What year is your truck?