Did I buy the wrong truck?

[Trippi]

I am looking into a lease as well, in addition to purchase. One on my ideal truck (delmonico red, nav, 33 gal tank, 18" rims, limited slip, level 1 Laramie) one on one I like but it is black (not my ideal color, but would be OK with it for a lease) and bench seat. The black one is Level 1 with 33 gal tank. Both no etorque.

One thing I am wondering about is passenger foot room. It is only 15" width on console equipped trucks. Anyone know if that is larger with bench seat?

I have experienced any issues with passenger foot room with the bucket seats in the Rebel. I have sat there, also had slightly larger passenger over there and said more than once how much room there was. If I remember from my last truck I suppose with a bench seat you could technically spread your feet more but not many people need that space as part of a normal ride. The Delmonico red is NICE - I didn't want another black vehicle but she does shine up nice.

 

[The Critic]

I think your expectations are setting you up to be disappointed. You had some gripes about your F150, and now you are having concerns about eTorque. These trucks (or anything else in this segment) are not built for the level of refinement or perfection that you are probably expecting.

The sensation you are experiencing is probably not related to eTorque. I drive a Prius as well so I know what regenerative braking feels like. The sensation you are experiencing is most likely a rumble/judder from the MDS system being active.

 

[wallyuwl]

I think your expectations are setting you up to be disappointed. You had some gripes about your F150, and now you are having concerns about eTorque. These trucks (or anything else in this segment) are not built for the level of refinement or perfection that you are probably expecting.

The sensation you are experiencing is probably not related to eTorque. I drive a Prius as well so I know what regenerative braking feels like. The sensation you are experiencing is most likely a rumble/judder from the MDS system being active.

According to RAM MDS is only on the hwy, this is when slowing down under 15 mph. The regular HEMI I drove didn't do it. I do expect a lot with how expensive these trucks are. The RAM is just a characteristic, with the Ford I had problems (some of which have class action lawsuits about now).

 

[Adrianp89]

I didn't read the entire thread but it sounds like you have two issues, one being regenerative braking and the other the ride.

I forgot about the regen braking almost right away, not sure if I even noticed it between my '19 and '20 to be honest. To be fair my wife drives a Tesla, which is one pedal driving (basically extreme regen braking) and I love that... I wish the truck could do one pedal driving. Anyways, it is pretty hard to find something without eTorque so I think I would just let my self get used to it. Regen braking is here to stay, and will be on everything in a matter of years, might as well get used to it now. I think the auto on/off is the worst part of the e-torque.

As far as suspension - if you think 20s are rough, I doubt 18s are better. I doubt a trade in would make this any better UNLESS you went with air suspension. I have air suspension on 22 ATs and it rides great.

 

[The Critic]

According to RAM MDS is only on the hwy, this is when slowing down under 15 mph. The regular HEMI I drove didn't do it. I do expect a lot with how expensive these trucks are. The RAM is just a characteristic, with the Ford I had problems (some of which have class action lawsuits about now).

Anytime the ECO light is on, MDS is active. The transmission programming between the eTorque and non-eTorque models may be different, but any transmission needs some time to learn your driving habits.

 

[wallyuwl]

I have never noticed the eco button active, even on the highway.

I drove around the city for a half hour this morning. I didn't notice the regen braking much. With the +/- it didn't do it that I noticed. It did do it, but not bad, without the +/- active. It isn't MDS, but there is something different when you activate the +/-.

Here are the two trucks I'm considering:
red one: https://www.eagleriverdodge.com/new/Ram/2020-Ram-1500-aaf278a20a0e0a171b89cf018fd6e663.htm
black one: https://www.wildedodge.com/inventory/new-2020-ram-1500-4x4-crew-cab-1c6srfjt8ln376700

The red one is almost identical MSRP to the current truck, about $100 more. The black one is about $2,200 cheaper.

I got some numbers from the RAM dealer. Right now I'm at $12,795 positive equity if I sell the truck to a local smaller dealer for $42k, then lease. I get that money in my pocket right away. Then I pay on the lease for three years, $19,188 ($533/mo) on the red one and $18,288 ($508/mo) on the black one with a 55% residual. I did the math, and I would be a fool to buy the truck at the end of the lease. But it could always be traded in if a strong market like currently (there are tax benefits in WI to trading, as well). So leasing would be a 3 year commitment to the truck and no longer.


To buy would be the following with the payment accounting for 1.99% for 60 months. Note my old F-150 payment was $650/mo:

I would be $18,432 ($512/mo) in payments over three years with the current truck. Using a 55% residual from MSRP (I decided that is the best figure, because that is what Ram uses on a lease), I would have $19,507 equity after three years (anticipated value $30,280, loan balance $10,773).
On the red truck linked above, I would pay $19,800 in payments ($550/mo) and have equity $18,763 (anticipated value $30,324, loan $11,561). Accounting for a small MSRP difference, this is a $$ difference of $2,032, which is basically how much I'd be in the hole after 3 years with that truck vs keeping my current truck. On the black truck I'd pay $18,504 ($514/mo), and have equity of $18,237. So, I'd be in the hole $3,546 after MSRP difference.

So, leasing is stupid if I'd keep the truck at least three years, as I'd be in the hole $5,968 on the red truck ($18,736 equity in three yeas vs $12,795 equity now on a cash out now) and about $5,442 on the black truck. Seems like the black truck is a bad deal now that I put numbers down to it (similar payment as current truck, but less MSRP and less equity).

So I guess it comes down to if $2,032, plus another $200 for wheel well liners, is worth it to get non-etorque, anti-spin, nav, 18s which should ride a little smoother, and the 33 gal tank. If I like the truck and don't have problems I would keep it more than three years. In the past I've kept vehicles until they were 14 years old (although I didn't get them until they were 6-8 years old - ah the good old days when I was poor but happy).

 

[CPenn1086]

I have never noticed the eco button active, even on the highway.

You can activate the "eco" light in the settings. However, I forget if it is found in the Uconnect settings or cluster settings.

I got some numbers from the RAM dealer. Right now I'm at $12,795 positive equity if I sell the truck to a local smaller dealer for $42k, then lease. I get that money in my pocket right away. Then I pay on the lease for three years, $19,188 ($533/mo) on the red one and $18,288 ($508/mo) on the black one with a 55% residual. I did the math, and I would be a fool to buy the truck at the end of the lease. But it could always be traded in if a strong market like currently (there are tax benefits in WI to trading, as well). So leasing would be a 3 year commitment to the truck and no longer.

Before you lease, you should have a good plan for what is next - Buying the vehicle at the end of the lease probably seems stupid, but compare it to the other options...

• Keep leasing? This is great for those who NEVER want to own thier vehicle and ALWAYS have a car payment
• BUY a new truck? This will easily cost more then buying your lease out.
• BUY a similar used truck? Odds are the price will be higher then your buyout. And - Why buy someone else's truck when you can buy your own?

Unless you want to keep leasing for eternity, buying your lease out will most likely end up being cheaper then the other two options.

I get it, buying out a lease sounds stupid as you always pay more. But, most people don't compare that to the costs associated with the other options.

Just some food for thought

 

[Adrianp89]

Anytime the ECO light is on, MDS is active. The transmission programming between the eTorque and non-eTorque models may be different, but any transmission needs some time to learn your driving habits.

This has been proven wrong multiple times. Light does not equal MDS.

 

[Adrianp89]

I am still struggling to understand this. You hardly notice the regen.... that leaves the ride. You can probably break-even on selling your 20s and buying some nice looking 18s with tires. 18s to 20s will not make a big difference in ride quality... the only option there is air suspension, which is a big upgrade.

 

[smashweights]

Took me a bit to acclimate to the brakes but now that I am I love them. Drove a family members 2020 Silverado and hated the brakes. As far as ride quality, ensure your tires aren't overinflated. Many come at 40+ off the lot and should be around 36. Makes a difference. Best of luck in your decision but if $2k to swap then seems like an easy choice.

 

[PowerJrod]

I didn't read the entire thread but it sounds like you have two issues, one being regenerative braking and the other the ride.

I forgot about the regen braking almost right away, not sure if I even noticed it between my '19 and '20 to be honest. To be fair my wife drives a Tesla, which is one pedal driving (basically extreme regen braking) and I love that... I wish the truck could do one pedal driving. Anyways, it is pretty hard to find something without eTorque so I think I would just let my self get used to it. Regen braking is here to stay, and will be on everything in a matter of years, might as well get used to it now. I think the auto on/off is the worst part of the e-torque.

As far as suspension - if you think 20s are rough, I doubt 18s are better. I doubt a trade in would make this any better UNLESS you went with air suspension. I have air suspension on 22 ATs and it rides great.

Riding on 18"s is smooth sailing for me

 

[PowerJrod]

You can activate the "eco" light in the settings. However, I forget if it is found in the Uconnect settings or cluster settings.



Before you lease, you should have a good plan for what is next - Buying the vehicle at the end of the lease probably seems stupid, but compare it to the other options...

• Keep leasing? This is great for those who NEVER want to own thier vehicle and ALWAYS have a car payment
• BUY a new truck? This will easily cost more then buying your lease out.
• BUY a similar used truck? Odds are the price will be higher then your buyout. And - Why buy someone else's truck when you can buy your own?

Unless you want to keep leasing for eternity, buying your lease out will most likely end up being cheaper then the other two options.

I get it, buying out a lease sounds stupid as you always pay more. But, most people don't compare that to the costs associated with the other options.

Just some food for thought

Buying out a lease after a few years is actually cheaper. I wish we did it with my girls new Rav4. It would've been around $27k total cost instead of $33k financed after 3 years.

 

[wallyuwl]

Complicating this is UConnect 5 is said to be out for sure on 2022 MY, and possibly on late 2021 MY. It appears to be a huge upgrade from UConnect4. Unlike my wife's 2019 Highlander (awful Infotainment in there), it doesn't seem like it is an easy swap to put in an aftermarket unit. In that case, even if I get $4000 less on my trade in a year vs now (would require the market to normalize some plus normal depreciation), I'd be no worse off equity-wise than right now because of making payments for that year, and probably better because I wouldn't take a $2k hit right off the top. Factories won't be 100% for some time, so I'm thinking a year from now we'll still be in an "up" market even if not as strong of one as now. And if a certain person gets elected he has said he's going to shut everything down again.

I'm going to "test drive" my current truck some more and see if I can live with the things I don't love. If so, then maybe I look when the new infotainment comes out.

 

[wallyuwl]

Buying out a lease after a few years is actually cheaper. I wish we did it with my girls new Rav4. It would've been around $27k total cost instead of $33k financed after 3 years.

Could you explain this? Not fully understanding how you're getting there.

I did the math in my situation, and assuming trade-in would be similar to the lease residual, I'd be many thousands in the hole (numbers above) buying out the lease at the end of the term because of not building any equity in those payments. With the equity I had in my old truck, my loan payment (60 mo) is similar to the lease payment.

 

[CPenn1086]

I wouldn't compare the lease residual to the "trade in" amount. You want to compare the residual to the selling price of trucks similar to yours on the market.

For example- Your truck's residual is 35k. The trade in value might only be 33k but if dealers & private sellers are selling the same used truck for 37k off the lot then buying yours out is not a bad move.

Now if your truck's residual was HIGHER then what similar used trucks are selling for, then yes you would be a fool for buying it.

 

[PowerJrod]

Could you explain this? Not fully understanding how you're getting there.

I did the math in my situation, and assuming trade-in would be similar to the lease residual, I'd be many thousands in the hole (numbers above) buying out the lease at the end of the term because of not building any equity in those payments. With the equity I had in my old truck, my loan payment (60 mo) is similar to the lease payment.

When it comes to trading in a vehicle...that's a whole different story. There is no "building equity" in a vehicle...ever. you might be able to reduce the debt to value ratio in a loan but thats about it. When you go to buy out a lease...you're paying what the vehicle is worth at that time...3 years later (for example). So you don't take a depreciation hit in the first year or two like you would on a new and financed vehicle. If you're trading in a vehicle that you're not even on...you pay any difference you have in the loan to value plus the cost of lease. Hope that makes sense. So not factoring in a trade... leasing is absolutely cheaper in the long run over financing. The insurance rates are about the same....plus dealers are more likely to provide more free maintenance to a leased vehicle.

 

[SilverNight2020]

According to RAM MDS is only on the hwy, this is when slowing down under 15 mph. The regular HEMI I drove didn't do it. I do expect a lot with how expensive these trucks are. The RAM is just a characteristic, with the Ford I had problems (some of which have class action lawsuits about now).

I have eTorque and my MDS kicks on at really any speed I go from an acceleration to a coast. It doesn't matter the speed. I am not sure if it is regenerative braking I feel, but I do appreciate how secure the braking system makes me feel on this truck. Does all of this you are experiencing stop if you just disable the eTorque with the on/off button?

 

[PowerJrod]

I have eTorque and my MDS kicks on at really any speed I go from an acceleration to a coast. It doesn't matter the speed. I am not sure if it is regenerative braking I feel, but I do appreciate how secure the braking system makes me feel on this truck. Does all of this you are experiencing stop if you just disable the eTorque with the on/off button?

I haven't tried it but I think I will tomorrow. It should still brake the same since all you're doing with the disable button is turning off the auto stop/start. But I know what you mean about the braking...it's great! Especially since I live in a rediculous driving area (Las Vegas)

 

[SilverNight2020]

This has been proven wrong multiple times. Light does not equal MDS.

Please help me understand this. Where do you find this information? A Google search just took me to a bunch of questions about MDS. It is my understanding MDS is indicated not only by the change in exhaust note when driving, but also by the ECO light that comes on my infotainment center.

 

[Billy James]

Please help me understand this. Where do you find this information? A Google search just took me to a bunch of questions about MDS. It is my understanding MDS is indicated not only by the change in exhaust note when driving, but also by the ECO light that comes on my infotainment center.

My ECO light is always on when MDS is engaged and off when MDS is not engaged. The RAM manual says that ECO Mode Indicator Light will turn on when ECO mode is active. When ECO Mode is on; MDS is engaged. It has not been proven wrong. On the older RAMS, ECO mode showed up when you were driving economically. In the 5th Gens, when you are driving economically the MDS and ECO mode are simultaneous. I can tell you without a doubt that for the past two years I have been driving my truck the ECO Mode and MDS are in fact on at the same time and off at the same time.