Did Chrysler Fix the Hemi Tick for 5th Gen?

[Cravenfan]

I have a nervous tick, or twitch at every stop sign and redlight...I want to race everyone.

My 5.7 ticks a bit, usually on cold start up...less than my prior Denali, way less than my Dad's Ford.

Not sure why this would bother anyone...crank the tunes and rip it.

 

[Orion10182011]

Engine tolerances are designed for the oil weight the MFG recommends at a specified operating temperature. The exception is if you are say racing(maybe towing) which subjects the engine to greator then typical operating temps then a thicker oil might be a good choice. As oil get continuously thinner at temps rise.

I know a guy who is a damn good mechanic. He swears buy 20w50 in his engines... He clearly don't understand oil worth a $*&t...

 

[Orion10182011]

My 5.7 ticks a bit, usually on cold start up...less than my prior Denali, way less than my Dad's Ford.

Not sure why this would bother anyone...crank the tunes and rip it.

A tick for a couple seconds at cold start is normal. All the oil has drained to the pan and it will tick till the pump gets oil up there. The trick is to use oil that will get there and start lubing the fastest. That's why most engine wear occurs as cold start.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

I think you mean clearances, tolerances are the amount of variance allowed in the clearances. Still can’t overlook the fact that 5W-30 seems to work just fine for a whole lot of folks in their HEMI engines. If using 5W-20 was so important because of the bearing clearances then it would show up in cold starts when the oils viscosity is way, way too high for several minutes before it reaches operating temperature of 212F. It’s clear that the bearing clearances are not that sensitive because 5W-30 with a KV only 2 cSt higher works without any issues.

 

[Orion10182011]

I think you mean clearances, tolerances are the amount of variance allowed in the clearances. Still can’t overlook the fact that 5W-30 seems to work just fine for a whole lot of folks in their HEMI engines. If using 5W-20 was so important because of the bearing clearances then it would show up in cold starts when the oils viscosity is way, way too high for several minutes before it reaches operating temperature of 212F. It’s clear that the bearing clearances are not that sensitive because 5W-30 with a KV only 2 cSt higher works without any issues.

Cold starts are where the 5w or better yet 0w comes into play. There isn't much difference between 5w30 and 5w20 in that scenario becuase the oil is behaving like a 5 weight.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

Cold starts are where the 5w or better yet 0w comes into play. There isn't much difference between 5w30 and 5w20 in that scenario becuase the oil is behaving like a 5 weight.

0W and 5W track fairly closely in CCS and MRV tests until you get well below zero, down around -20F before the 0W starts showing any real advantage. By cold start I mean any time the oils temperature is below the optimum operating temperature. For example, at 100F the viscosity of a 5W-20 is between 45 and 50 cSt and a 5W-30 will be between 65 and 70 cSt, which is about 6 times their viscosities at 212F, so they're both too "thick' to be providing optimal protection, even at 100F.

And you're right, there's very little difference between 5W-20 and 5W-30 because they've both passed the CCS and MRV requirements to be labelled as a 5W. As long as the oils temperature isn't below its cold pumping limit then a 5W-30 will be pumped to the top end just like a 5W-20, and both will be too "thick" until they warm up to around 200F, which is exactly the point I've been trying to make.

 

[Billy James]

Manual "recommends" 5W-20, but it does not say not to use anything else, as long as it meets MS-6395, so 5W-30 should be fine as long as it meets that standard.
I have a pronounced tick by the way. Grown used to it.

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It looks pretty clear to me under the Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) paragraph that RAM wants you to use 5W20 in the 5.7. The last sentence says it all; "Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used."

 

[aimlowrobin]

On my 5th hemi RAM. Every one of them ticked, inuding my 2020. Put high mileage in all of them except the one I totaled. Zero engine issues with any of them. Just used recommended oil. I don't worry about it.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

It looks pretty clear to me under the Oil Viscosity (SAE Grade) paragraph that RAM wants you to use 5W20 in the 5.7. The last sentence says it all; "Lubricants which do not have both the engine oil certification mark and correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used."

Agreed, I quoted that same paragraph back in post # 20.

 

[jdefoe0424]

I don't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, but I believe the 5W-20 is recommended for proper actuation of MDS and heavier weight oils can affect the operation.

I would say use good oil and keep up with your changes, maybe do an oil analysis if it helps you feel better about your change interval and don't worry about it.

 

[silver billet]

I don't remember if I read it here or somewhere else, but I believe the 5W-20 is recommended for proper actuation of MDS and heavier weight oils can affect the operation.

I would say use good oil and keep up with your changes, maybe do an oil analysis if it helps you feel better about your change interval and don't worry about it.

Yes I've read that too; and also, that MDS might be the reason they suggest 5W-20, otherwise, they would suggest 5W-30 like they did in the same 5.7 hemi in the 2500 which doesn't have MDS.

So... that perspective is suggesting that fuel efficiency is driving the recommendation, not what's best for the engine in terms of longevity. You might be killing your engine earlier by running 5W-20 (according to them) just so that FCA can get a slight bump in corporate MPG.

I dunno what to believe. But, I don't run MDS anyway, and if the 5W-30 (or some additive like Moly which is only present in the 5W-30 brands we're running) is making the engine run more quiet, to me that's a good thing.

None of us will ever know just by reading the manual. Only a Hemi engineer would be able to put this argument to rest.

 

[My1stHemi]

I'm not sure where you're getting your data from, but it contradicts everything I've read on the subject. Using an expensive Redline 5w30 oil has quieted the tick for everybody that has tried it, they suspect due in part to the high Moly content. None of them were running the wrong oil before the tick started, they noticed the tick and went looking for a solution.

For the OP, here is one sample discussion:

Quieting Hemi Tick with Redline Oil

First thing, if your Hemi powered car/truck is still under warranty, I recommend taking it to the dealer. Hopefully they will fix it for you but if they don't, at the very least it will be documented. If they essentially blow you off like they did to me, continue reading. For a lot if not...

www.bobistheoilguy.com

Of course, running a 5w30 oil like Redline might void your warranty, so this is all at your own risk.

This was the BITOG thread that lead me to try using Moly additives on top of Shell Rotella which has higher moly from the get-go. No tick, but I don't want one either.

 

[cotonymopar]

the Hemi Tick in my 2012 was a broken exhaust manifold.. once replaced, it was quiet. only did that on cold startup, then once warm, the crack would expand to seal.

 

[Rambeaux]

I used amsoil 0w-20 signature series & their filter in my '06 for over 10 yrs. I never had a oil issue except for a front timing cover leak at the end of ownership & valve cover gaskets years before. Changed oil & filter once a year or 25k, whichever came first. It never had a cold start tick, & amsoil claims their oil protects against cold starts because of how well it clings to surfaces.

It did have a tick, but after watching several hemi tick & the exhaust leak vids, it wasn't either of those issues. Unlike the lifter tick that bounces around or the exhaust tick that goes away after warming up, my "tick" was constant, came from the same spot (front, right of the engine), & wasn't near as loud as either. I chalked it up to either the valve train, an injector, or the egr valve (that was at that spot on the engine) & ran the **** out of it.

 

[jdefoe0424]

I used amsoil 0w-20 signature series & their filter in my '06 for over 10 yrs. I never had a oil issue except for a front timing cover leak at the end of ownership & valve cover gaskets years before. Changed oil & filter once a year or 25k, whichever came first. It never had a cold start tick, & amsoil claims their oil protects against cold starts because of how well it clings to surfaces.

It did have a tick, but after watching several hemi tick & the exhaust leak vids, it wasn't either of those issues. Unlike the lifter tick that bounces around or the exhaust tick that goes away after warming up, my "tick" was constant, came from the same spot (front, right of the engine), & wasn't near as loud as either. I chalked it up to either the valve train, an injector, or the egr valve (that was at that spot on the engine) & ran the **** out of it.

Good data right there. I have a similar experience and it's also why I finally became a dealer, I owned a 3 series BMW that was notorious for eating cam chain components before 100k(actually just received a class action letter in the mail the other day for it). I bought the car at 38k and sold it at 105k always with AMSOIL Euro oil, oil changes were up to 12k with analysis and that car never missed a beat. Sometimes I wish I hadn't sold it.

 

[SD Rebel]

I thought the Hemi tick was caused by the very design of the motor, that the crankcase is positioned too low, that the oil getting splashed to the upper valve train experiences oil starvation if you idle for too long. Essential the opposite design of GM small block, where the crank is positioned closer to the valve train, allowing good lubrication from the spinning assembly even at low idle.

Essentially, I was told you want to be at 1500 rpm or higher on the Hemi to make sure enough oil gets to the upper part of the engine. Revised stronger roller pins help, but they won't last long without enough oil being fed to them.

Best bet is avoid excessive idling and use a quality synthetic oil that sticks & lubricates well. If I am idling for a while and have to leave my engine on, like say off-roading on a slow trail following groups of vehicles, I will rev my engine a bit to oil up the valve train from time to time.

As for the oil grades, I thought that was only important for proper MDS operation, not preventing the Hemi tick.

 

[silver billet]

I don't know. I've seen some videos on youtube where they pull the engine apart looking at the lifters and cam. Seems to me that you get horrible wear on one or two lifters, and absolutely no wear on the remaining ones. If it was an oiling issue, wouldn't all lifters suffer equally? If it was a design flaw, I would think you would see the result in each and every lifter to varying degrees, but that's not what I've seen.

So that in my ignorant opinion suggests more that it was a supplier issue; some needle bearings went bad in individual lifters which is why you see the damage done to individual lifters in a specific engine, not various states of damage to them all.

 

[SD Rebel]

I don't know. I've seen some videos on youtube where they pull the engine apart looking at the lifters and cam. Seems to me that you get horrible wear on one or two lifters, and absolutely no wear on the remaining ones. If it was an oiling issue, wouldn't all lifters suffer equally? If it was a design flaw, I would think you would see the result in each and every lifter to varying degrees, but that's not what I've seen.

So that in my ignorant opinion suggests more that it was a supplier issue; some needle bearings went bad in individual lifters which is why you see the damage done to individual lifters in a specific engine, not various states of damage to them all.

That's a good point as well though who knows how uniform they get oiled that is based on splash lubrication. Maybe those two lifters are farthest away from the splash pattern?

Maybe it's a mix of variables that contribute to the problem? Maybe batches of low quality materials or machining of those cams/pins along with less than ideal lubrication could cause premature wear? I currently don't have the tick, but I will try whatever I can so I don't get it.

 

[119Allem$]

A tick for a couple seconds at cold start is normal. All the oil has drained to the pan and it will tick till the pump gets oil up there. The trick is to use oil that will get there and start lubing the fastest. That's why most engine wear occurs as cold start.

Makes sense to me