Desert Dawg Ram Rebel Build

[Desert Dawg]

Posted in the General Discussion but too pretty not to post here too...lol.

 

[Steelwheelz]

I posted some pics previously in the build thread but probably hard to find so will repost here. Overall, I think the CVs are looking okay. I was more concerned about the stabilizer bar linkage (since the boot looked like it was slipping) but I had Desert Rat Off-road Centers take a look and they confirmed that there were no concerns.

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You may have answered this in your breakdown but how is the street ride quality on the Highway and hitting bumps? Is it really stiff or actually nice to drive as a daily driver? Thanks again!

 

[Swicago]

Posted in the General Discussion but too pretty not to post here too...lol.

What lights are those and are they mounted cleanly, as in no cutting? Looks great on the RAM. Background looks good too

 

[Desert Dawg]

What lights are those and are they mounted cleanly, as in no cutting? Looks great on the RAM. Background looks good too

Thanks!

The lights are Rigid 360 Series Spot LEDs and 360 Series Driving LEDs; I have a write up on the install in an earlier post (click link: Rigid 360 Series Install).

 

[Desert Dawg]

You may have answered this in your breakdown but how is the street ride quality on the Highway and hitting bumps? Is it really stiff or actually nice to drive as a daily driver? Thanks again!

@Steelwheelz; sorry, I skipped right over this! Ride quality is pretty darn good.

The Fabtech-Dirt Logic 3-inch system definitely provides the lift I wanted without going crazy in fitting +34-inch tires while keeping the center of gravity relatively low for maintaining on-road handling and off-road stability. I can fly over speed bumps and washboard roads like they are not there and turn-in feel and overall handling is very good. Overall, the ride quality is excellent on maintained roads but not quite as smooth as the Falcon system at slower speeds.

The Falcon system was even smoother over the rough stuff but does not provide enough clearance for larger tires (while leaving adequate room for flex and full lock) and clearance in order to run harder off-road trails. But regarding on-road performance, the Falcon system's ride quality is almost on par with the factory system but offers noticeable improvement in handling/turn-in feel and control. The factory Bilstein system is just unbelievable and definitely provides the smoothest highway ride but with less confidence in control (again, the Ram generally feels great as is but I am comparing it to the upgraded systems) along with its obvious limitations when off-roading compared to the Falcon or Dirt Logic systems.

 

[Steelwheelz]

@Steelwheelz; sorry, I skipped right over this! Ride quality is pretty darn good.

The Fabtech-Dirt Logic 3-inch system definitely provides the lift I wanted without going crazy in fitting +34-inch tires while keeping the center of gravity relatively low for maintaining on-road handling and off-road stability. I can fly over speed bumps and washboard roads like they are not there and turn-in feel and overall handling is very good. Overall, the ride quality is excellent on maintained roads but not quite as smooth as the Falcon system at slower speeds.

The Falcon system was even smoother over the rough stuff but does not provide enough clearance for larger tires (while leaving adequate room for flex and full lock) and clearance to in order to run harder off-road trails. But regarding on-road performance, the Falcon system's ride quality is almost on par with the factory system but offers noticeable improvement in handling/turn-in feel and control. The factory Bilstein system is just unbelievable and definitely provides the smoothest highway ride but with less confidence in control (again, the Ram generally feels great as is but I am comparing it to the upgraded systems) along with its obvious limitations when off-roading compared to the Falcon or Dirt Logic systems.

Thank you. Very helpful. This is a big decision and I want to make the right choice. One other question. Is the rear coil spring spacer in the dirt logic kit to put the rake back or level it to the front lift? What size is the spacer? My Rebel Measures 22 inches from center hub to lip of wheel well in the front and 24.5 in the rear. A 2.5 difference. I’m just trying to do the math on where the dirt logic
kit would get me. Thanks again! Love your truck by the way!


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[Desert Dawg]

Thank you. Very helpful. This is a big decision and I want to make the right choice. One other question. Is the rear coil spring spacer in the dirt logic kit to put the rake back or level it to the front lift? What size is the spacer? My Rebel Measures 22 inches from center hub to lip of wheel well in the front and 24.5 in the rear. A 2.5 difference. I’m just trying to do the math on where the dirt logic
kit would get me. Thanks again! Love your truck by the way!


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Thanks!

I totally understand the need for as accurate information as possible; I always try to make sure that things will fit and work as intended (with mixed results...lol). According to Fabtech, the rear spacer will retain the factory rake which makes sense if using the Dirt Logic coil-over settings as is (~2 inches of front lift) and using the rear spacer. When I had the lift first installed, I had my shop adjust the coilovers in which I kept ~1/2-inch of rake. I just remeasured my lift height again since I dialed my front coil-overs up some more so my current set-up is now almost perfectly level (so I ate up the remaining .5-inch of rake since my prior measurement). I am going to post my methods below so maybe they will help some.

 

[Desert Dawg]

So it's been sort of hit and miss on my actual lift height dimensions since I did not do a good job of recording results every time I dialed the system in some more. My shop, Desert Rat Off-Road, provided me some initial measurements that I used early on but have come to suspect their technician was not very accurate (in other words, took some quick measurements without baselining). But I really wanted to see where I am at since I asked them to dial the front coil-overs up a tad. To do this, I used some scrap metal that I could easily bend and taped one piece to the underside of the fender flare and the other piece to the center of the wheel hub. I had measured the wheel cap and found the center using a template I made. I then leveled both pieces the best I could; since the fender flares are plastic and fitted onto the body, there are variances between each fender so I had to adjust the angle of the protruding portion in order to achieve a leveled position for each wheel.

Set up:

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I then took (3) measurements; centerline of the wheel hub to bottom of fender flare lip, floor to bottom of fender flare lip, and top of tire to bottom of fender flare lip. Now I know that there are some discrepancies depending on actual tire pressure, fender fitment, suspension lean, etc. but I think I got close enough to give me a pretty accurate picture of what the Fabtech Dirt Logic 3-inch lift achieved.

For example, for the front driver side, I measured the centerline of the wheel hub to the fender flare lip at 25-1/8 inches which netted me 3-1/8 inches of actual lift (so a 5/8-inch increase over my initial calculation of ~2.5-inches of front lift). This is the most accurate measurement since it does not have to adjust for the increase for tire size (going from 33.2 to 34.4-inch diameter).

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If I look at the body measurements, the bottom of the fender flare lip is ~41-3/8 inches off the floor; this gives me approx. 2.4 inches of lift (3.0-inches of lift adjusted down to account for the change in increased tire diameter). Finally, measuring the top of tire tread to the bottom of the fender flare lip netted ~8-1/4 inches which helped verify the other rear to front rake measurements at zero inches. Averaging the suspension and body measurements results in lift height of about 2.65 inches which is close to my initial approximation. But just considering the suspension system, I am at 3-1/8" of front lift (again, I dialed in more turns than what was provided).

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So I think it's safe to say that the Fabtech Dirt Logic system will provide a minimum of +2.5-inches of front lift for a Rebel (and 3-inches for a non-Rebel using shorter springs). I am not entirely sure about the actual rear lift as I thought I had more rake initially and I am relying on the shops initial readings, so may be off some but the numbers are close to consistent; I will go with 7/8-inches of lift in the rear due to the suspension (so almost 1.5 inches over the factory rear height when including the larger tires).

Edits: Fixed typo​

 

[Steelwheelz]

So it's been sort of hit and miss on my actual lift height dimensions since I did not do a good job of recording results every time I dialed the system in some more. My shop, Desert Rat Off-Road, provided me some initial measurements that I used early on but have come to suspect their technician was not very accurate (in other words, took some quick measurements without baselining). But I really wanted to see where I am at since I asked them to dial the front coil-overs up a tad. To do this, I used some scrap metal that I could easily bend and taped one piece to the underside of the fender flare and the other piece to the center of the wheel hub. I had measured the wheel cap and found the center using a template I made. I then leveled both pieces the best I could; since the fender flares are plastic and fitted onto the body, there are variances between each fender so I had to adjust the angle of the protruding portion in order to achieve a leveled position for each wheel.

Set up:

​

I then took (3) measurements; centerline of the wheel hub to bottom of fender flare lip, floor to bottom of fender flare lip, and top of tire to bottom of fender flare lip. Now I know that there are some discrepancies depending on actual tire pressure, fender fitment, suspension lean, etc. but I think I got close enough to give me a pretty accurate picture of what the Fabtech Dirt Logic 3-inch lift achieved.

For example, for the front driver side, I measured the centerline of the wheel hub to the fender flare lip at 25-1/8 inches which netted me 3-1/4 inches of actual lift (so a 5/8-inch increase over my initial calculation of ~2.5-inches of front lift). This is the most accurate measurement since it does not have to adjust for the increase for tire size (going from 33.2 to 34.4-inch diameter).

​

If I look at the body measurements, the bottom of the fender flare lip is ~41-3/8 inches off the floor; this gives me approx. 2.4 inches of lift (3.0-inches of lift adjusted down to account for the change in increased tire diameter). Finally, measuring the top of tire tread to the bottom of the fender flare lip netted ~8-1/4 inches which helped verify the other rear to front rake measurements at zero inches. Averaging the suspension and body measurements results in lift height of about 2.65 inches which is close to my initial approximation. But just considering the suspension system, I am at 3-1/4" of front lift (again, I dialed in more turns than what was provided).

​

So I think it's safe to say that the Fabtech Dirt Logic system will provide a minimum of +2.5-inches of front lift for a Rebel (and 3-inches for a non-Rebel using shorter springs). I am not entirely sure about the actual rear lift as I thought I had more rake initially and I am relying on the shops initial readings, so may be off some but the numbers are close to consistent; I will go with 7/8-inches of lift in the rear due to the suspension (so almost 1.5 inches over the factory rear height when including the larger tires).

Edits: Spelling and grammatical corrections​

By leveling the front with the back spacer installed, it might take it out of factory specs for alignment and such. I called Fabtech yesterday and they stated that the system was designed to keep everything in spec. Not to say us off-roaders don’t take things out of spec once in a while. LOL! I was just wondering by cranking it up will the on road ride suffer more? Anyway, it looks awesome!


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[Desert Dawg]

By leveling the front with the back spacer installed, it might take it out of factory specs for alignment and such. I called Fabtech yesterday and they stated that the system was designed to keep everything in spec. Not to say us off-roaders don’t take things out of spec once in a while. LOL! I was just wondering by cranking it up will the on road ride suffer more? Anyway, it looks awesome!


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Thanks!

Well, Fabtech might claim that based on their UCA angles but I always get my front end realigned even if just using a hockey puck spacer system; as shown in my previous posts, other components are still effected. Even still, the re-alignment that was completed during the first install on the Fabtech system (don't have the spec sheet for second alignment on the Fabtech system) shows some adjustments are still needed. I should be able to get those closer to spec once I replace the Fabtech UCAs with adjustable ones.

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To answer your question about ride quality, my last adjustment definitely made the ride a tad stiffer but still very comfortable and smooth. I really have no complaints but it is certainly not buttery smooth as the factory suspension (but also not as floaty either).

P.S. If your Rebel is still stock with the factory wheels and tires, did you take any measurements yet? I am looking for the centerline of the wheel hub to bottom of the fender flare lip as I am not sure I have the right factory measurements from the shop when they first installed my Falcon suspension system. No worries if not as I am sure someone in this forum has them!

 

[Steelwheelz]

Thanks!

Well, Fabtech might claim that based on their UCA angles but I always get my front end realigned even if just using a hockey puck spacer system; as shown in my previous posts, other components are still effected. Even still, the re-alignment that was completed during the first install on the Fabtech system (don't have the spec sheet for second alignment on the Fabtech system) shows some adjustments are still needed. I should be able to get those closer to spec once I replace the Fabtech UCAs with adjustable ones.

​

To answer your question about ride quality, my last adjustment definitely made the ride a tad stiffer but still very comfortable and smooth. I really have no complaints but it is certainly not buttery smooth as the factory suspension (but also not as floaty either).

P.S. If your Rebel is still stock with the factory wheels and tires, did you take any measurements yet? I am looking for the centerline of the wheel hub to bottom of the fender flare lip as I am not sure I have the right factory measurements from the shop when they first installed my Falcon suspension system. No worries if not as I am sure someone in this forum has them!

This is what my Stock Rebel is at right now from center wheel to Lip. 22" in front and 24" in rear

 

[Desert Dawg]

This is what my Stock Rebel is at right now from center wheel to Lip. 22" in front and 24" in rear View attachment 77962 View attachment 77964

Thank you so much for taking those and sharing! Looks like my shop was pretty close to those measurements as well so guess I will continue to use them.

 

[Desert Dawg]

I already posted this in the General thread, but like to keep all of my build topics within my Build Thread too.

My wife is amazing as she remembered a couple of things I mentioned that I should probably get the last time I took her off-roading. So for Christmas, she gave me a BushRanger X-Jack that you can inflate while on the trail either by using the truck's exhaust and/or an air compressor. Along with that, she also gave me a pair of ORCISH Recovery Traction Boards to boot!

Since a Hi-Lift jack won't work very well for my truck due to the power side steps and rub rails, I was really stressing about what I would do if something happened out on the trail; an inflatable jack is an ideal solution (not to mention a lot less weight and bulk to haul around). Before use, you have to inflate/deflate a few times to get it stretched out and ensure no leakage. I carry my VIAIR 400P Portable Air Compressor inside the truck so decided to try it out for the inflation; as expected, it worked perfectly!

After doing that, I tested it under load and figured out I still need some extra lift under the jack as it almost lifted the rear but not quite high enough to compensate for the lift and larger tires. Luckily, the recovery traction boards are the perfect thickness and length for use as a platform for the inflatable jack system and give me the additional height needed to clear the tires.

BushRanger X-Jack inflatable jack system with VIAIR compressor:







I secured the recovery traction boards along the inside of the bed with a couple of bungee cords; works great as the boards don't bang around but easy to get out for use.

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Edits: Spelling and grammatical corrections​

 

[Desert Dawg]

Skid Plate Poll Results

First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on my poll and/or made thread suggestions on whether I should leave the factory skid plate as is or change out the color to a matte black in order to match the Rebel trim. As of today, 65% of respondents were in favor of changing out the skid plate!

So I finally came to decision: I am going to change out the color!

photoshop courtesy of @TruckDriver
​

However, the decision is also partly a result of another recent decision I made to add a hidden winch to the front bumper. Since I will have to remove the entire front bumper to install the winch mount, this allowed me to also decide on the type of change I would make to the skid plate. I was considering various options including going with a matte black wrap (as I had done on my 4Runner), painting it, covering it with Linex, or powder coating the entire skid plate. I decided on the latter since I have to remove the entire skid plate anyway; this would be an opportune time to have it done right and now worry as much if it gets abused some when off-roading. From an aesthetic perspective, I thought having a matte black skid plate (vs. the factory silver) would give the entire front end a cleaner look by not having too many features highlighted (Ram lettering, lighting, winch fair lead, skid plate). I am thinking of maybe going with a black fairlead with with either a silver/gray or blue winch shackle (since I already keep D-shackles in the truck at all times, I would go with using another Factory 55 Prolink XXL which has a clean, cool look but also does not need to have a hook hanging on the bumper...I just add a D-shackle when needed). The silver/gray winch shackle would also help balance out the silver Ram lettering (which I like as a little contrast to the all gray/black color theme of the front end) and row of Rigid lights. Another option I think would work well is a silver fairlead (to tie in even more with the Ram lettering) with a black Prolink.

I need to order the winch mount through Vice Design; once I have the mount and winch selected, I will schedule a date for powder coating the skid plate at a local shop and start ripping apart the front end. Oh joy!

Edit: Added Photo and Links​

 

[RockYacht2020]

Skid Plate Poll Results

First, thanks to everyone who weighed in on my poll and/or made thread suggestions on whether I should leave the factory skid plate as is or change out the color to a matte black in order to match the Rebel trim. As of today, 65% of respondents were in favor of changing out the skid plate!

So I finally came to decision: I am going to change out the color!

photoshop courtesy of @TruckDriver
​

However, the decision is also partly a result of another recent decision I made to add a hidden winch to the front bumper. Since I will have to remove the entire front bumper to install the winch mount, this allowed me to also decide on the type of change I would make to the skid plate. I was considering various options including going with a matte black wrap (as I had done on my 4Runner), painting it, covering it with Linex, or powder coating the entire skid plate. I decided on the latter since I have to remove the entire skid plate anyway; this would be an opportune time to have it done right and now worry as much if it gets abused some when off-roading. From an aesthetic perspective, I thought having a matte black skid plate (vs. the factory silver) would give the entire front end a cleaner look by not having too many features highlighted (Ram lettering, lighting, winch fair lead, skid plate). I am thinking of maybe going with a black fairlead with with either a silver/gray or blue winch shackle (since I already keep D-shackles in the truck at all times, I would go with using another Factory 55 Prolink XXL which has a clean, cool look but also does not need to have a hook hanging on the bumper...I just add a D-shackle when needed). The silver/gray winch shackle would also help balance out the silver Ram lettering (which I like as a little contrast to the all gray/black color theme of the front end) and row of Rigid lights. Another option I think would work well is a silver fairlead (to tie in even more with the Ram lettering) with a black Prolink.

I need to order the winch mount through Vice Design; once I have the mount and winch selected, I will schedule a date for powder coating the skid plate at a local shop and start ripping apart the front end. Oh joy!

Edit: Added Photo and Links​

Just installed my Hidden Winch. It's badass. You'll love it. I went with the Warn Evo 12S, and did both the clutch and box relo kits. Both are well worth the extra bucks. The clutch is critical, and the electrical box is really nice to have if your remote ever ran out of battery.

Oh, and whatever anyone tells you the approximate install time is...it's more. Lots more.

 

[Desert Dawg]

Just installed my Hidden Winch. It's badass. You'll love it. I went with the Warn Evo 12S, and did both the clutch and box relo kits. Both are well worth the extra bucks. The clutch is critical, and the electrical box is really nice to have if your remote ever ran out of battery.

Oh, and whatever anyone tells you the approximate install time is...it's more. Lots more.

View attachment 79265

Ha! I believe it as I was planning at least a couple of days especially since I am not the fastest mechanic and I always waste time trying to find stuff I lose in process...lol. For that reason alone, I am dreading taking off the skid plate and dissembling the lower grille insert as I just know I'll lose a couple of those screws or fasteners.

That looks fantastic. Been trying to figure out how best to retain the stock lower grille section; I have seen others cut out the grille to fit around the mount. But not sure yet if that's the approach I'll take. I was definitely planning to order the clutch and box relocation kits as you did.

I still need to get my act together in finding a powder coating shop to use so when I finally pull the trigger, I will ready to go in getting the skid plate done at same time.

 

[RockYacht2020]

Ha! I believe it as I was planning at least a couple of days especially since I am not the fastest mechanic and I always waste time trying to find stuff I lose in process...lol. For that reason alone, I am dreading taking off the skid plate and dissembling the lower grille insert as I just know I'll lose a couple of those screws or fasteners.

That looks fantastic. Been trying to figure out how best to retain the stock lower grille section; I have seen others cut out the grille to fit around the mount. But not sure yet if that's the approach I'll take. I was definitely planning to order the clutch and box relocation kits as you did.

I still need to get my act together in finding a powder coating shop to use so when I finally pull the trigger, I will ready to go in getting the skid plate done at same time.

Baggies, baggies, baggies! It's the only way for me to keep track of all that stuff.

The good news is you only need most of the grill fasteners, not all of them (I think 8 of 11?). And as for retaining the stock grill...I haven't looked into how folks are doing that, but the fairlead would be clamped down on the plastic grill, and tightening that would almost certainly crack it; now I wish I'd kept mine so you could play with one. Come to think of it, you might post and see if anyone kept theirs after the install and would be willing to give it to you. It's probably pricy to buy another one, but useless once you've install the Hidden Winch. Mine's in a landfill now, sadly.

Another option would be to take the steel filler piece they provide and find someone to do some creative custom laser-cutting. Getting "DD" on both sides would look badass. Hell, you might even ask Vice if they have the ability to do that and would be willing prior to shipment for a small fee. You're customizing the heck out of your rig...don't stop short!

I can't wait to hear your feedback on the install and find out your answer to the inevitable question: "How the **** did they get a torque wrench on that bolt?!?"

 

[Desert Dawg]

Baggies, baggies, baggies! It's the only way for me to keep track of all that stuff.

The good news is you only need most of the grill fasteners, not all of them (I think 8 of 11?). And as for retaining the stock grill...I haven't looked into how folks are doing that, but the fairlead would be clamped down on the plastic grill, and tightening that would almost certainly crack it; now I wish I'd kept mine so you could play with one. Come to think of it, you might post and see if anyone kept theirs after the install and would be willing to give it to you. It's probably pricy to buy another one, but useless once you've install the Hidden Winch. Mine's in a landfill now, sadly.

Another option would be to take the steel filler piece they provide and find someone to do some creative custom laser-cutting. Getting "DD" on both sides would look badass. Hell, you might even ask Vice if they have the ability to do that and would be willing prior to shipment for a small fee. You're customizing the heck out of your rig...don't stop short!

I can't wait to hear your feedback on the install and find out your answer to the inevitable question: "How the **** did they get a torque wrench on that bolt?!?"

I like the the idea of laser cutting DD into the cover plate! But if I want to reuse the factory lower grille, it seems like the easiest solution is to cut into two sections that butt up on each side of the mount. Seen some powder coat the mount too in order to dress it some. But you got me with "How the **** did they get a torque wrench on that bolt?"...lol...I am hoping there is not something that is going throw me into an uncontrollable tirade!

 

[Desert Dawg]

Fun little Lego robotics video that relates to some good off-roading principals;

- Change out those street tires for off-road biased tires for increased grip
- Use larger tires for increased contact and clearance for going over obstacles
- Increase torque at the wheels with low-range four wheel drive to get over difficult and/or steep/deep obstacles
- Raise the vehicle some to increase vehicle's breakover angle
- Don't raise the center of gravity excessively by raising the vehicle too high and/or hauling heavy items on the roof
- In general, don't haul a lot of extra weight (I fail at this with mods, gear, and my own body weight...lol)
- Use four wheel drive for safety and performance

After about 2:25, it is all about robotic articulation over challenges but would make for an insane off-road vehicle if you could:

Video courtesy of Brick Experiment Channel​

 

[HDub]

The details of this build out are fantastic! Thank you for taking the time to do this.

One question on the truck cap & its impact on the suspension: does the weight of the ARE cap need to be "considered" or accounted for when doing the level/lift work ? Seems like the weight of the cap might affect the outcome on overall stance (and rake or lack thereof) of the truck.

Appreciate your insight on this. Looking to do similar mods...