Air suspension or not

[SpeedyV]

If you are a Ram engineer then I welcome you to share which components of the system have been changed. As far as my eye can tell, it's exactly the same. I really don't want to upset anyone or start an unnecessary pi$$ing contest.

I'll withdraw from the conversation and only add that my intention was to inform. I have had a lot of experience with this and just wanted to add my perspective to the topic of the thread.

Both you and @Electrical make some good points here.

Way back in May 2018, and right here on 5thGenRams, @202snowman posted info straight from the FCA brochure on the air suspension redesign: https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/2019-airsuspension.467/. Surfing through FCA media and other articles, you'll also find info about the system being made 'smarter', with features such as auto load-leveling, Entry/Exit from keyfob, etc.

But it's still a new redesign, and we don't know how it'll hold up in the long run. One would hope FCA has learned from their previous experiences and given us a more robust system.

 

[DakotaRam]

 

[Brent T]

So what problems are they giving in the cold ? You know all the semis on the road that deliver almost everything we all use everyday, food, fuel, clothes, these trucks etc, they almost all have air suspension. And never really give a problem. And a lot of them drive 150,000 miles/year. I actually own 4 semi trucks, in Canada, no problems to speak of due to cold. Put some special antifreeze in there, and the moisture will dissipate and nothing will freeze.

 

[Electrical]

Oh. Well if it looks the same I guess that settles it

Maaaaan, the stakes are too high. The last annual report is littered with mentions of "perceived reliability"... from the CEO's office. Mopar brass said many times that they have not yet found the ceiling for what people will pay for a premium truck... and then they tie the premium truck (and most profitable trim) to air suspension without re-engineering past issues?

It just doesn't add up. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Electrical]

So what problems are they giving in the cold ? You know all the semis on the road that deliver almost everything we all use everyday, food, fuel, clothes, these trucks etc, they almost all have air suspension. And never really give a problem. And a lot of them drive 150,000 miles/year. I actually own 4 semi trucks, in Canada, no problems to speak of due to cold. Put some special antifreeze in there, and the moisture will dissipate and nothing will freeze.

I think bags were deflating in extreme cold. VR can explain much better than I.

 

[VaderRebel]

The 4th Gen software allowed for micro adjustments to level the truck after it was left off for 10min or so. In winter or extreme cold, this would introduce cold air to meet condensation in the system and freeze out the compressor and fittings. To my understanding, the only update the FCA made to the system was software related and the actual parts and fittings are 4th Gen parts.

 

[VaderRebel]

The biggest change they could have made was to bring the sensitive components into the cab area, delete one of the lower Ram Bins and protect the compressor and line block to remove any cold issues. I assume eTorque was the bigger priority for space and the none eTorque trucks needed to fit the same mold.

 

[SpeedyV]

The 4th Gen software allowed for micro adjustments to level the truck after it was left off for 10min or so. In winter or extreme cold, this would introduce cold air to meet condensation in the system and freeze out the compressor and fittings. To my understanding, the only update the FCA made to the system was software related and the actual parts and fittings are 4th Gen parts.

This is inconsistent with the link I shared above, with info shared by @202snowman from the FCA brochure stating, "The system has been modified for 2019 Ram 1500, now with a redesigned air supply unit in a single unit to increase capability and reduce weight...".

 

[202snowman]

just some more info from tech authority showing the layout of the 19 system. I can't comment on how that compares to the 18 system

 

[TruckDriver]

Were 4th Gen Air Suspensions 'open loop' or closed loop like the 5th gen nitrogen systems?

I built a few air ride systems (for fun) on past vehicles and the biggest issues I had were leaks caused by my own doing, but these were 'open loop' systems with compressors bringing outdoor air into the system. IF past systems were open and now are closed, I think that's a monumental difference.

 

[Jordan2929]

Were 4th Gen Air Suspensions 'open loop' or closed loop like the 5th gen nitrogen systems?

I built a few air ride systems (for fun) on past vehicles and the biggest issues I had were leaks caused by my own doing, but these were 'open loop' systems with compressors bringing outdoor air into the system. IF past systems were open and now are closed, I think that's a monumental difference.

4th gens we’re closed loop but had the ability to draw in outside air.

 

[Brent T]

Semi’s compressor are driven off the engine. Take outside air. Still no problems.

 

[Edwards]

just some more info from tech authority showing the layout of the 19 system. I can't comment on how that compares to the 18 system

Any chance you have this doc on filling the system?

"For more information about the complete system fill procedure (Refer to 02 - Front Suspension/Air Suspension/Standard Procedure)."

 

[Edwards]

Were 4th Gen Air Suspensions 'open loop' or closed loop like the 5th gen nitrogen systems?

I built a few air ride systems (for fun) on past vehicles and the biggest issues I had were leaks caused by my own doing, but these were 'open loop' systems with compressors bringing outdoor air into the system. IF past systems were open and now are closed, I think that's a monumental difference.

After reading what @202snowman posted, I'm more confused.

1. The page 1 diagram shows component 9, "air hoses" which are described on page 4 as "Air hoses facilitate the venting or intake of atmospheric air and are located in the right rear tail lamp area." That seems to clearly indicate it is not a closed system.
2. Under ASCM, page 4, it states, "This air suspension system is a four-corner closed system."

How can #1 and #2 both be true?

 

[202snowman]

Any chance you have this doc on filling the system?

"For more information about the complete system fill procedure (Refer to 02 - Front Suspension/Air Suspension/Standard Procedure)."

 

[202snowman]

Feel free to take a look at that

 

[Edwards]

Thanks! Great info in there like Nitrogen filled system and initially charged to 175 PSI.

 

[Electrical]

Neither of these documents mention the ASU described in the 4th Gen. What gives?

EDIT: A bit more detail... the analogous document for the 4th Gen fill procedure is where the quote below comes from. Was this deleted from the 5th Gen fill procedure because it's extraneous, or does it point to a difference in the systems?


The Air Supply Unit (ASU) is located on the vehicle frame rail on the passenger side of the vehicle. The ASU contains the air dryer, compressor, exhaust valve, valve block, pressure sensor, and temperature sensor.

 

[202snowman]

The 4th Gen software allowed for micro adjustments to level the truck after it was left off for 10min or so. In winter or extreme cold, this would introduce cold air to meet condensation in the system and freeze out the compressor and fittings. To my understanding, the only update the FCA made to the system was software related and the actual parts and fittings are 4th Gen parts.

Any of those parts look similar to your 4th gen that you had issue with?

 

[VaderRebel]

Any of those parts look similar to your 4th gen that you had issue with?

I appreciate your knowledge and your cache of parts diagrams. Invaluable.

But I am motivated to answer your question with a question... Does anyone have a documented statement or advertisement that claims, clearly, that the cold climate issues have been 100% acknowledged and remedied?

The fact that they may have changed the compressor to a single piston or revamped how they circulate the nitrogen doesn't mean they have improved it beyond weight reduction and convenience features.

I have no real horse in this race since switching to a coil suspension truck and I have already apologized for stirring the pot. Time will tell and I will bite my tongue until then.

All good.