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A bit of my 2022 Limited Night Edition SQL Build and a Question on System Audio Routing in HK System

Ceri

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The MLV barrier I installed runs between the factory widgets/dodads and my amplifier rack, so in a way it likely offers some protection to the OEM equipment that is recessed in the lower area. The amplifiers sit outboard of the main upper vertical plane of the truck's structure, but if there were streaming water, I wouldn't hold out much hope of the amps surviving. I'd be leaving it up to a higher power for the water to find its way to a place where nothing will go pop.
 

Ceri

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Here's some finished pictures from the third amp install, showing how I used the factory seat bracket bolt locations to help hold it stable. That lump to the back left of the amp is the eTorque battery cabling under the carpet. Also a few other shots of the finished hardware installation. From 10 feet, you can't really see much of anything, except a nice Ram interior. The trained eye might spot the sub box and/or seat riser, but it blends in with the colors of the cab so well that if I were a thief, I'd keep walking to the next car. Honestly though, everything is to tied in with everything else, with specialty hardware, etc. that I wouldn't envy a thief trying for a quick smash and grab. I don't envy myself in ~10 years when I go to sell the truck and have to rip everything out. :)

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Ceri

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I spent about 5-6 hours yesterday tuning things with the C-DSP processor. My approach, sharing with others for any potential feedback or benefit to future DIYers, was to tune the frontstage 3-way system, with the subs, using Dirac Live's outputs to manually set things in the DSP as close as I could. Then, with the front 6 channels set, I could lump them all together on a single pair of Dirac channels (1 and 2) and add the headliner speakers (3 and 4) and the rear bass (5 and 6), with the sub on Dirac 7. This is the general approach that the C-DSP manual recommends, and they actually advise against handling each speaker individually, although my final result is a hybrid between their "do" and "don't" approach.

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Therefore, I spent a good 4 hours running DL calibrations over and over on the frontstage, transferring the level matching, time delay, and adding one or two PEQ filters to iron out the individual drivers so they would play well with each other. The level matching and time delay were lifted directly from what Dirac was putting out. For this intermediate step, here's how the mixer was set up.

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Here was an example output of the first pass running Dirac (only one position measured) during this intermediate tune of the fronts:

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You can see that Dirac was cutting Dirac 5 and 6 (front midbasses) by about 10 dB, and everything was delaying by 11-13 ms to align with the subwoofers. Dirac 8 was turned off since it wasn't being used.

So I would take the gain/delay figures and enter them on the output channels for 1-6 (my frontstage), and adjust their individual time delay settings as an offset from whatever I got from the last run. The ideal goal was to peg them all down at ~0.00 ms. My subs were used like a reference, since they would be common to my stage two tuning, and they were the furthest away from the mic in stage one. What I mean by that is that the delay coming from the subs started off as 0.00 ms, and everything else had to be delayed considerably to align to it. By entering those delays into the manual Output tab per driver and rerunning Dirac, I'd get a new offset value to either add or subtract from my previous calibration run. Here's an example from a middle pass where you can see the calibration output after I'd set all of the numbers for each driver on the Outputs tabs.

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There were several calibrations run before I started getting this close, but you can see that the gains are all ~0.0X dB, and the delays are uniformly around 0.25 and 0.29 ms. For me, this reads as "I need to add another 0.25 ms delay to my front right midbass, and 0.29 ms delay to everybody else to align to the sub". Then rerun the calibration to see if things are pegging on 0.0 dB and 0.00 ms across the board. While the goal was perfection, 0.1 dB and 0.02 or 0.04 ms is getting into the realm of external variables during the measurement sweep, and I considered it acceptable to have some tiny deviations (after running ~30 calibrations). I was parked in my garage, but my garage door can't close because of the difference in length between a 2022 truck and a 1976 garage's dimensions. Cars/trucks drive by, birds chirp, etc.

Once I got things down to pretty tight tolerances, I examined the measured responses for each driver, and used some PEQ filters to tone down any major humps. In the example below, you can see Dirac 6 (front right midbass) has a pretty big hump above my target curve. I don't recall the exact settings I ended up with in the PEQ filter, but looking at this from my computer in retrospect, I would apply a fairly narrow cut at about 130 hz of around -6 dB to attempt to get this closer to my target curve (indicated by the grey dots).

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Since you can download and run the DSP software from your computer without being connected to anything, here's what my correction would look like to try to smooth out that hump a little bit:

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Then I'd remeasure everything through another calibration sweep and see where I was landing with my cuts. I didn't want to overprocess things more than Dirac would already be doing, but one or two filters added to tone down the big humps was good enough for me. You can constrain drivers/signals so much with processing that it loses some of it's liveliness. Another important point with any tuning is that you can't fix a suck out. If you have a major downward spike on one driver, trying to boost it is usually pointless. Those suck outs are caused by the environment, and if they didn't exist the response would be flat. You can try to keep throwing good wattage after bad, but the suck out will continue canceling it and you'll have insignificant impact. Furthermore, your amplifier will be stressing itself at those boosted frequencies, which will adversely affect all other frequencies. Fixing "room nulls" gets into far more advanced techniques (such as adding rear midbasses).

Below is an example of a suck out (aka "room null") where the frequency's wavelengths are lining up to form a perfect "destructive interference pattern" at the listening position. The direct sound wave, coming from the speaker to your ear (or the mic in this case) arrives as intended, call this the "zig", but reflections off other surfaces are arriving at approximately 180* out of phase at that exact measurement point causing a "zag" at reduced power (having lost some to the reflection bouncing off a surface). As an oversimplification, if the direct sound is at say +80 dB, and the combined reflections are at +30 dB, but 180* out of phase, then you get a -30 dB suck out and are left with a 50 dB response for that particular frequency at that particular location. The combined zig-zag results in these cancellation nodes. If you move your head two inches to the left, it could come right back, but now a different frequency has a suck out. So don't worry too much about these, unless you want to go chase a degree in acoustics.

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Ceri

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After finishing up with the frontstage, I put them all together into Dirac 1 (left front) and Diract 2 (right front) and added in my rear midbasses and rear headliner speakers as independent channels. The headliners had to be independent because I was feeding their output as a differential R-L and L-R signal. I found Dirac's measurement approach wasn't capable of dealing with the R-L and L-R input very well, so I performed their frequency and delay calibrations as just a normal L and R signal at standard dB reference. In the final form I'm running them as -3 dB on the main and -3 dB on the inverted signal and added about 8 ms additional delay (ran out of headroom on what the C-DSP is capable of). I'm not totally sure, but my subs might have benefitted from reversing their polarity to trim down some of the delays on the rest of the speakers. The delays for most of the speakers ended up in the 9-12 ms range, which translates to 10-14 feet, and there's definitely not that much space available, even in this huge truck.

My final tune is set up like this:

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After giving it about 45 minutes of listening time, I'm going to have to trim down the midbass. It's too good. I've got the "heart stopper" impact that I was after by adding in the rear midbass, but it's overwhelming to the mids and highs. Midbass is definitely something that most car audio nut can't get enough of, but I think I've gone too far here. As an effect, it's awesome. For overall sound quality, I'll have to dial it back a bit, hopefully by just reducing the dB on the individual outputs for each midbass equally. I haven't felt those chest thumps so good in a long time. I played a bunch of 80s pop with the synths and artificial drums for grins. So crispy. So nice. I also ran Tool's Chocolate Chip Trip, which has no vocal components, and the truck turned into an all encompassing surround experience. Stage width and depth on that non-vocal (and quite specialized recording) song was absolutely ridiculous. It was many feet beyond the side mirrors and instead coming from my physical left and right, likely due to the rear door vibrational cues. Level in the vertical plane. It was like sitting on Danny Carey's stool and hearing the sound from the performer's perspective, rather than sitting in front of the performance, which makes me wonder how it was actually recorded.

The differential rear fill seems to have fixed the stage left and right droop and brought the whole presence up to eye level. I don't think I'm going to mess with pillars or sail panels for the tweeters. I picked up on something new in Tool's Lateralus that I'd never been able to resolve before. There's someone waggling a piece of sheet metal coming from both the left and right channels in portions of the song. There's an artificial reproduction of that sound that is obvious on the crappiest speakers, but there's a real one in the background too. Crazy to pick up on it considering how many times I've listened to Lateralus in my life. Some of that 90s country just blows me away. I almost shed a tear on Tim McGraw's "Don't Take the Girl". The background chorus on that song is easy to lose with his leading vocals dominating, but there's good stereo separation in the recording that helps to localize them separately from his centering.

Anyway. Loving it. Worth the amount of money and time? Probably not for most people. Worth it to me for the next 10 years of listening experience? Yep.

Side note: Don't park your truck underneath cabinets and then drain the battery in a 5 hour tuning session. I had to pay a tow truck $145 to pull my truck about 2 feet because I couldn't pop the hood to hook the battery up on my charger. The manual release only overrides the transmission. The parking brake was still locking the rear axle, and it's controlled electronically, so I couldn't get it to deactivate with a fully discharged battery. I saw someone on here that disassembled the rear rotor to disengage it, but I wasn't about to go on that deep dive in 110*F heat. Ironically, my battery charger is directly above the driver's headlight in this picture, literally about 2' away from the battery terminals, but I couldn't open the hood to connect it. I think I'll be upgrading the OEM to some sort of deep cycle battery before too long. I tend to be brutal on batteries when I get too focused on doing something to my truck.

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Gus0024

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I just got a '22 Ram Limited earlier this week and was excited to get the HK stereo, only to be unimpressed after listening. My point of reference for a good factory car stereo comes from my wife's Volvo XC90 with the Bowers and Wilkins. The soundstage was beautiful, and I suspect it has ruined me for any other car stereo. I have some pretty decent home stereo equipment, but never dabbled in car audio. What do you think it would take for a layman to get to 80-90% of where you are at? I have nowhere near the tech knowhow that you have, and I really appreciate the write up/ efforts here!
 

CalvinC

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Fantastic write up and astounding efforts here.
I appreciate not just your time and knowledge, but also the way in which you articulated it. I definitely learned quite a few things here.
Hope you are happy with the dividends of your investment for many years to come.
 

Ceri

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I just got a '22 Ram Limited earlier this week and was excited to get the HK stereo, only to be unimpressed after listening. My point of reference for a good factory car stereo comes from my wife's Volvo XC90 with the Bowers and Wilkins. The soundstage was beautiful, and I suspect it has ruined me for any other car stereo. I have some pretty decent home stereo equipment, but never dabbled in car audio. What do you think it would take for a layman to get to 80-90% of where you are at? I have nowhere near the tech knowhow that you have, and I really appreciate the write up/ efforts here!

It's tough to give you a good rubric to get there. Unfortunately, the factory amplifier creates quite a bottleneck on any other improvements to get to an 80%+ level due to the factory processing. Going around the factory amp is going to hit the pocketbook pretty hard.

If you wanted to skip the rear situation completely, which I've done on a lot of previous vehicles, then some sort of DSP/amp combo unit that can handle at least 6 channels of amplification, a dedicated subwoofer amp, a PAC AmpPRO with the TOSLINK upgrade, and then a 3 way component set for the fronts and subs to suit your taste would get you where you need to be on the audio signal side. For the 6 channel amp/dsp I considered replacing my coveted 6 channel with either a JL VX800/8i (8 channels, but could bridge two pairs for the midbass) or an AudioControl D-6.1200. I kept my Zed 6 channel, but wanted to try out a new DSP since my Helix had been iffy on USB connectivity. I could get away with a "dumb" 6 channel as long as I had a stand-alone DSP like the C-DSP 8x12 DL. It worked out nicely that when I decided to add a rear seat amplifier to the mix, the C-DSP had 12 output channels that allowed me to expand further.

The deadening/acoustic treatment bares fruit too, but could be done after you've upgraded the electronics and can replenish your war chest, or call it "phase 1" and do it before you tackle the electronics. It'll help the factory system out, and also quiet down the cabin even more than it already is.

You'd want to make sure the new amplifiers can overpower the factory amplifier by a healthy margin to avoid a sloppy stage up front. I tried stopping there, but the rear woofers were still a major obstacle to getting the midbass I was after. The headliner speakers are take it or leave it. The cheap fix is to disconnect them. If you didn't have the easy ability to synthesize R-L and L-R signals, it would probably be better to do without them.

I'm making up funny numbers a bit, but if you wanted to take it up a notch, say 50%, without going "whole hog" then you could drop in replacement speakers for the 3.5" doors and dash, upgrade the woofers in the doors, and add a sub/amp combo to fill in the low lows (maybe as a phase 2). The problem as I understand it from my reading is that the factory amplifier will still be trying to play Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) through the new speakers that way, and you're liable to get some funky bass hum noise playing when you're rolling around. Ram designed the ANC system to be played specifically through the factory speakers. They account for the response of the factory gear, so if you change the factory gear, then the signal it's sending to "cancel" road noise is colored, and you end up hearing something that somewhat resembles exhaust and tire noise being played through the speakers. The only way to get around the ANC system is to completely go around the factory amplifier, as in cut it out of the signal chain. Doing that is going to require some form of aftermarket amplification to be able to play music at all. My setup still has the factory wiring sitting at each speaker location, but it's taped up and tucked out of the way. I had to run all new wires throughout the truck to get around the factory amp.

Another "half measure" would be to go with a 4 channel frontstage replacement, swapping the door woofers and 3.5"s with a pair of two way components. If you selected the two ways from a family that has the option to buy a dedicated midrange down the road, you could make that a future upgrade if the system still wasn't up to snuff.

Admittedly I'm not the most humble guy in the world, but for a layman to get to 90% of where I'm at, I'd probably recommend stopping by your local audio shop and getting a quote for them to do it. It's all available to someone with the time, patience, and physical dexterity, but I've been chasing the car audio dragon for about 20 years. It lead me to going back to college to get a degree in electrical engineering. I don't work in car audio, but my education does help inform my hobby. With everything I already knew coming into this build, it still took me several months of weekends to DIY the install in the Texas Summer, and several weeks before that to research everything and source parts.

I love talking about this stuff, so if anyone out there has specific questions, I'm happy to share my experience.
 

Ceri

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Fantastic write up and astounding efforts here.
I appreciate not just your time and knowledge, but also the way in which you articulated it. I definitely learned quite a few things here.
Hope you are happy with the dividends of your investment for many years to come.

I tracked the money in a spreadsheet. Other than that final number, I'm super happy with it!
 

mellofello

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I tracked the money in a spreadsheet. Other than that final number, I'm super happy with it!
Hey Ceri:

Wonderful, detailed write-up which is much appreciated. A couple of quick questions since you have gone through the entire process already:
1. Where under the back seat did you ground the amplifier (any pics would be appreciated)?
2. Where through the firewall did you run the 1/0 AWG Knukonceptz power wire (pics again, if possible)?
3. Does the auto stop/start cause any problems with the power to the amplifiers at high volumes when you stop at a stoplight?

Thanks in advance and again great job with the install.
 

Ryan6900

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What battery are you using? I'm wanting an XS D3100, but not sure if it will fit. What are your thoughts on it?
 

Ceri

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Hey Ceri:

Wonderful, detailed write-up which is much appreciated. A couple of quick questions since you have gone through the entire process already:
1. Where under the back seat did you ground the amplifier (any pics would be appreciated)?
2. Where through the firewall did you run the 1/0 AWG Knukonceptz power wire (pics again, if possible)?
3. Does the auto stop/start cause any problems with the power to the amplifiers at high volumes when you stop at a stoplight?

Thanks in advance and again great job with the install.

1. I joined it with 1/0 where the factory eTorque battery is grounded, which is on the floor around the rear center seat area, after combining all audio grounds through a distribution block.
2. I cut into an existing rubber boot to pass the cable through and taped it up with electrical tape to minimize dust, etc. I don't recall it being much trouble for me. I used zip ties in the engine bay to secure it. I HAVE had my main power wire get damaged before due to "good enough" support, so now I take the extra few minutes to make sure it'll never go anywhere.
3. No, I haven't had any issues, even at extreme volume levels. The factory alternator keeps the battery charged up good. I DON'T have a super bass setup in my truck, but it's quite capable of scaring the neighbors and hearing inside my house. Definitely in the "that stupid idiot next to me needs to turn down his stupid stereo" class if I wanted to be. There's no noticeable change when the truck kills the engine at a stop light, even at "full tilt". My total system capacity is about 3000 watts RMS, but I'm probably never getting into that range in my daily listening.
 

Ceri

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What battery are you using? I'm wanting an XS D3100, but not sure if it will fit. What are your thoughts on it?

I'd have no objections to any of the XS battery lines. I've heard plenty of good things for a long time about the brand, but have no experience with them personally. I've always been a fan of Optima's YellowTop series, especially the GM style, D34/78, with the dual sets of posts so I can keep my audio separate from the main truck connection. It's been helpful when I've needed to mess with amplifiers, etc. to be able to disconnect the audio system without killing the truck's main power (air conditioning while I'm tinkering!). They've never "fit" the battery tray in any of my Rams, but using one of the supplied mounting brackets the battery has always been properly secured. I'm still running the factory battery. I had some trouble with it at the tail end of my audio install, but since getting it charged back up, it hasn't caused me any issues. When the time comes to replace it, I'll probably stick with Optima, but it's mostly because I've had a good track record with them, even after some rumors about their quality going downhill ~5 years ago. I migrated a YellowTop from my 2011 Challenger into my 2005 Ram 1500, and had it for about 6-7 years total. I probably drained that sucker 10+ times down to "can't start the engine", and after a recharge cycle on my crappy Walmart charger, it fired right up and kept on ticking for years after. When it finally failed during a "snowmageddon" event down here in Texas (<0*F actual temps and -20s *F wind chill), I replaced it with another YellowTop and that went another 4 years before the 2005 got totaled. I kinda wish I'd have pulled it from the junk yard, but then I would have had to replace it with a Walmart battery and it was too much hassle in the heat of the moment.

Long story short, I'm not much help because I haven't messed with the battery yet.
 

mellofello

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1. I joined it with 1/0 where the factory eTorque battery is grounded, which is on the floor around the rear center seat area, after combining all audio grounds through a distribution block.
2. I cut into an existing rubber boot to pass the cable through and taped it up with electrical tape to minimize dust, etc. I don't recall it being much trouble for me. I used zip ties in the engine bay to secure it. I HAVE had my main power wire get damaged before due to "good enough" support, so now I take the extra few minutes to make sure it'll never go anywhere.
3. No, I haven't had any issues, even at extreme volume levels. The factory alternator keeps the battery charged up good. I DON'T have a super bass setup in my truck, but it's quite capable of scaring the neighbors and hearing inside my house. Definitely in the "that stupid idiot next to me needs to turn down his stupid stereo" class if I wanted to be. There's no noticeable change when the truck kills the engine at a stop light, even at "full tilt". My total system capacity is about 3000 watts RMS, but I'm probably never getting into that range in my daily listening.
Thanks again....much appreciated.
I have seen some persons saying not to use the grounding point for the Etorque battery but if you haven't encountered any problems then it might be an ok grounding point.
 

McDew608

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This is a great write-up. I have a similar 2022 (Laramie with HK)... planning to use PAC audio to get the signal and disable ANC. I just had 1 question on the stock speaker wiring. If I want to completely bypass the HK amp, I assume you would unplug the output harness on that amp under the driver seat. Is there something available to plug into that empty harness to get access to all the speakers? This would allow me to run speaker wires from my amps in rear to just under the driver seat.
 

Brunzca

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@Ceri great job, and even better write up/photo doc! I love my current system, but could have done better with (need to work on) my sound deadening. Very good info here, thanks!
 

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