2019 Laramie oil pan and plug rust at 9000 miles

[HAL9001]

I agree undercoating is the best.
But first off...no one in the right mind would wash their vehicle and then take it for a drive on a snowy/salty road...that would be stupid. But your views don't reflect on what my experience is lol. Don't care if you don't agree ..I pointed out what we did and what worked for us. Kudos. And no...leaving salt on your frame without rinsing it off is what causes the rust. With your mindset washing your truck will cause rust every time which is obviously not the case.

Well, then how are you supposed to get home from the car wash after you rinsed it? And what are you supposed to do after you rinsed off the undercarriage? Put the truck in the garage and not drive it again? The majority of people have to take it back out on the roads soon after it's been washed, and in the salt belt, there's almost always salt on the road until Spring. So, you would need to completely and effectively rinse it off every time you used it, not just weekly, otherwise you're just kidding yourself that it's doing any good.

And you're wrong, salt on your frame alone simply cannot effectively cause rust without moisture, that's a fact. Water is what causes rust, not salt. Regular water alone, without any salt, will cause rust all by itself. Salt greatly exacerbates rusting, acting as a catalyst, but without water, salt alone cannot cause rust. Water must be present. Chemistry 101, rust is a form of oxidation, the oxygen comes from the water acting as an electrolyte (H20 or Dihydrogen Monoxide), not from the salt (NaCl or Sodium Chloride).

The chemical formula for rust*:

O2– (aq)+ 2H2O (aq)+ 4e– → 4OH–

The Fe2+ ions then chemically react and bond with the OH– ions in water to create iron hydroxide, which eventually dries up to form rust: (Iron (III) Hydroxide)

Fe2+(aq) + 2OH–(aq) → Fe(OH)2 (aq) → Fe2O3 (s) (rust)

*Sources cited, see links below.

See, no salt (NaCl) in the equation for rust. Salt alone cannot cause rust, it greatly quickens rusting, but it alone cannot cause rust. So, if you leave a vehicle's undercarriage dry or frozen, covered with salt or not, then the rusting process is effectively suspended until unfrozen moisture is once again present to act as the required electrolyte.

You don't need to believe me, look it up for yourself. Here's a start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/vehicle-maintenance/prevent-automotive-rust1.htm
https://schoolworkhelper.net/effect-of-sodium-chloride-on-rust-lab-explained/

Look, I'm not telling you or anyone else not to rinse off your undercarriage in the winter if you want. Rather, I'm simply saying it's just not practical for most people in the salt belt as it will soon be covered in salt again, and that continually adding even more water can cause even more rusting because you're constantly adding the most vital substance that causes rusting. Yes, ideally, if you could effectively and continually remove all of the salt all of the time, and then dry the chassis afterward, then the potential for rusting could be significantly reduced, but this is simply not practical in the salt belt. It's a losing battle you cannot win. If you're a daily driver then rinsing once a week is not going to cut it and may actually make it worse by adding even more moisture when the car might have been drier. That's why rustproofing, not constant and futile attempts at rinsing, is the only practical thing a vehicle owner can do in the salt belt in the dead of winter to protect their vehicle.

 

[PowerJrod]

Well, then how are you supposed to get home from the car wash after you rinsed it? And what are you supposed to do after you rinsed off the undercarriage? Put the truck in the garage and not drive it again? The majority of people have to take it back out on the roads soon after it's been washed, and in the salt belt, there's almost always salt on the road until Spring. So, you would need to completely and effectively rinse it off every time you used it, not just weekly, otherwise you're just kidding yourself that it's doing any good.

And you're wrong, salt on your frame alone simply cannot effectively cause rust without moisture, that's a fact. Water is what causes rust, not salt. Regular water alone, without any salt, will cause rust all by itself. Salt greatly exacerbates rusting, acting as a catalyst, but without water, salt alone cannot cause rust. Water must be present. Chemistry 101, rust is a form of oxidation, the oxygen comes from the water acting as an electrolyte (H20 or Dihydrogen Monoxide), not from the salt (NaCl or Sodium Chloride).

The chemical formula for rust*:

O2– (aq)+ 2H2O (aq)+ 4e– → 4OH–

The Fe2+ ions then chemically react and bond with the OH– ions in water to create iron hydroxide, which eventually dries up to form rust: (Iron (III) Hydroxide)

Fe2+(aq) + 2OH–(aq) → Fe(OH)2 (aq) → Fe2O3 (s) (rust)

*Sources cited, see links below.

See, no salt (NaCl) in the equation for rust. Salt alone cannot cause rust, it greatly quickens rusting, but it alone cannot cause rust. So, if you leave a vehicle's undercarriage dry or frozen, covered with salt or not, then the rusting process is effectively suspended until unfrozen moisture is once again present to act as the required electrolyte.

You don't need to believe me, look it up for yourself. Here's a start:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/vehicle-maintenance/prevent-automotive-rust1.htm
https://schoolworkhelper.net/effect-of-sodium-chloride-on-rust-lab-explained/

Look, I'm not telling you or anyone else not to rinse off your undercarriage in the winter if you want. Rather, I'm simply saying it's just not practical for most people in the salt belt as it will soon be covered in salt again, and that continually adding even more water can cause even more rusting because you're constantly adding the most vital substance that causes rusting. Yes, ideally, if you could effectively and continually remove all of the salt all of the time, and then dry the chassis afterward, then the potential for rusting could be significantly reduced, but this is simply not practical in the salt belt. It's a losing battle you cannot win. If you're a daily driver then rinsing once a week is not going to cut it and may actually make it worse by adding even more moisture when the car might have been drier. That's why rustproofing, not constant and futile attempts at rinsing, is the only practical thing a vehicle owner can do in the salt belt in the dead of winter to protect their vehicle.

Way too much dude lol.
If you don't wash your vehicle, then the salt will keep building up and as snow melts it's speeds up the process of rusting. Every heard of stainless steel? That's what our frames are made out of..that's why just water alone won't start rusting the frames for a long time. The break down of chemistry might look a certain way on paper...but I'm talking about real world experience....not something coming from a textbook.

 

[taz2016]

Way too much dude lol.
If you don't wash your vehicle, then the salt will keep building up and as snow melts it's speeds up the process of rusting. Every heard of stainless steel? That's what our frames are made out of..that's why just water alone won't start rusting the frames for a long time. The break down of chemistry might look a certain way on paper...but I'm talking about real world experience....not something coming from a textbook.

Since when are Ram frames made out of stainless steel?

 

[PowerJrod]

Since when are Ram frames made out of stainless steel?

They're all stainless steel. Otherwise they'd be rusted to hell after the first winter. Been that way for a long time with most of the truck brands.

 

[HAL9001]

Way too much dude lol.
If you don't wash your vehicle, then the salt will keep building up and as snow melts it's speeds up the process of rusting. Every heard of stainless steel? That's what our frames are made out of..that's why just water alone won't start rusting the frames for a long time. The break down of chemistry might look a certain way on paper...but I'm talking about real world experience....not something coming from a textbook.

They're all stainless steel. Otherwise they'd be rusted to hell after the first winter. Been that way for a long time with most of the truck brands.

Real-world experience that doesn't come out of a textbook?? Dude, chemistry is chemistry, and physics is physics, these are ultra-hardcore facts that don't change whether from the real world or a textbook. You can't change the laws of physics or chemistry. They govern the universe as we know it.

I've already explained twice why rising your chassis is not practical in the wintertime in a snow belt. I'm not going to repeat it yet again if you don't get it or don't want to get it. Believe what you want and do what you want.

And I'm sorry, but you're wrong again. Of course I've heard of stainless steel, I'm an engineer, and I can tell you that the RAM chassis is not made of stainless steel. I don't know where you heard that, but it's simply wrong. Maybe you're thinking of a DeLorean, lol, but not the RAM or any other truck that I'm aware of currently in mass production. I hear Tesla might use it. Exhaust systems are commonly stainless steel, maybe that's what you were thinking about, but definitely not truck frames.

Truck frames are traditionally constructed primarily of Carbon Steel and in the case of some trucks, aluminum alloys for some components. High-Strength Steels (HSS) and Advanced High-Strength Steels (AHSS) are now commonly being used, replacing Carbon Steel. Stainless Steel is almost never used for mass-produced frames. For mass production consumer automotive chassis purposes, it sucks. It's too heavy, way too expensive, too difficult to stamp, too difficult to weld and machine, and too tough on the tooling and dies used in automotive mass production. If all that wasn't bad enough, it also creates strong galvanic corrosion when paired with other common automotive metals such as aluminum.

The 2019-2021 RAM 1500 truck chassis is composed primarily of Advanced High-Strength Steel. These are sophisticated, modern, carefully engineered steels designed to be strong yet lightweight. Because of their strength, they can use lighter gauges than traditional carbon steel thus reducing weight. Unfortunately, Advanced High-Strength Steel is not intrinsically as corrosion resistant as Stainless Steel and requires traditional rust-resistant coatings.

Again, if you don't believe me, and for some reason you never do, just research it yourself. Here is proof directly from FCA in their own video on the RAM chassis materials. Listen carefully, you will never hear the words Stainless Steel, but you will hear High-Strength Steel repeated throughout.

2019-2021 RAM Frame materials:

 

[PowerJrod]

Real-world experience that doesn't come out of a textbook?? Dude, chemistry is chemistry, and physics is physics, these are ultra-hardcore facts that don't change whether from the real world or a textbook. You can't change the laws of physics or chemistry. They govern the universe as we know it.

I've already explained twice why rising your chassis is not practical in the wintertime in a snow belt. I'm not going to repeat it yet again if you don't get it or don't want to get it. Believe what you want and do what you want.

And I'm sorry, but you're wrong again. Of course I've heard of stainless steel, I'm an engineer, and I can tell you that the RAM chassis is not made of stainless steel. I don't know where you heard that, but it's simply wrong. Maybe you're thinking of a DeLorean, lol, but not the RAM or any other truck that I'm aware of currently in mass production. I hear Tesla might use it. Exhaust systems are commonly stainless steel, maybe that's what you were thinking about, but definitely not truck frames.

Truck frames are traditionally constructed primarily of Carbon Steel and in the case of some trucks, aluminum alloys for some components. High-Strength Steels (HSS) and Advanced High-Strength Steels (AHSS) are now commonly being used, replacing Carbon Steel. Stainless Steel is almost never used for mass-produced frames. For mass production consumer automotive chassis purposes, it sucks. It's too heavy, way too expensive, too difficult to stamp, too difficult to weld and machine, and too tough on the tooling and dies used in automotive mass production. If all that wasn't bad enough, it also creates strong galvanic corrosion when paired with other common automotive metals such as aluminum.

The 2019-2021 RAM 1500 truck chassis is composed primarily of Advanced High-Strength Steel. These are sophisticated, modern, carefully engineered steels designed to be strong yet lightweight. Because of their strength, they can use lighter gauges than traditional carbon steel thus reducing weight. Unfortunately, Advanced High-Strength Steel is not intrinsically as corrosion resistant as Stainless Steel and requires traditional rust-resistant coatings.

Again, if you don't believe me, and for some reason you never do, just research it yourself. Here is proof directly from FCA in their own video on the RAM chassis materials. Listen carefully, you will never hear the words Stainless Steel, but you will hear High-Strength Steel repeated throughout.

2019-2021 RAM Frame materials:

View attachment 77073

W/e man. I told you what I've done to avoid rust. If you don't believe me I could care less lol.
Oh and secondly...it's treated steel...with carbon...which makes it stainless. Good talk. Again...textbook crap that has NO bearing on this discussion and what I was talking about.

 

[SpeedyV]

W/e man. I told you what I've done to avoid rust. If you don't believe me I could care less lol.
Oh and secondly...it's treated steel...with carbon...which makes it stainless. Good talk. Again...textbook crap that has NO bearing on this discussion and what I was talking about.

It’s not stainless steel. @HAL9001 is correct on this point. Stainless is a unique alloy and would be inappropriate for this application.

 

[HAL9001]

W/e man. I told you what I've done to avoid rust. If you don't believe me I could care less lol.
Oh and secondly...it's treated steel...with carbon...which makes it stainless. Good talk. Again...textbook crap that has NO bearing on this discussion and what I was talking about.

"Textbook crap" is science. Science is what makes these trucks we love possible, otherwise, we'd all still be riding in horse-drawn carriages like the Amish who reject "textbook crap". You could write an encyclopedia on all the science and technology found in the new RAM trucks. If you don't like science and tech, RAM trucks are not for you.

Steel treated with carbon does not make it stainless, that's simply not true. The majority of steels contains carbon but that does not make them all Stainless. Stainless Steel gets its corrosion resistance from the presence of chromium in the alloy, not from the carbon. Carbon steel and Advanced High Strength Steel are definitely not Stainless Steel and production truck frames are not made of Stainless Steel.

I've provided external references to prove everything I said, so who are people supposed to believe? Besides, most people here know that truck frames are not Stainless.

So, please stop, don't damage your own credibility. I truly don't want to see that happen to anyone. This was just supposed to be a friendly conversation.

 

[PowerJrod]

"Textbook crap" is science. Science is what makes these trucks we love possible, otherwise, we'd all still be riding in horse-drawn carriages like the Amish who reject "textbook crap". You could write an encyclopedia on all the science and technology found in the new RAM trucks. If you don't like science and tech, RAM trucks are not for you.

Steel treated with carbon does not make it stainless, that's simply not true. The majority of steels contains carbon but that does not make them all Stainless. Stainless Steel gets its corrosion resistance from the presence of chromium in the alloy, not from the carbon. Carbon steel and Advanced High Strength Steel are definitely not Stainless Steel and production truck frames are not made of Stainless Steel.

I've provided external references to prove everything I said, so who are people supposed to believe? Besides, most people here know that truck frames are not Stainless.

So, please stop, don't damage your own credibility. I truly don't want to see that happen to anyone. This was just supposed to be a friendly conversation.

I offered my advice based on personal experiences, this isn't a science classroom. Although I probably should've worded it differently...the steel frames used do have some stainless properties and that's what I was getting at. I didn't mean it's a constructed out of stainless steel. So my apologies for not wording it 100% to your standards.

 

[HAL9001]

I offered my advice based on personal experiences, this isn't a science classroom. Although I probably should've worded it differently...the steel frames used do have some stainless properties and that's what I was getting at. I didn't mean it's a constructed out of stainless steel. So my apologies for not wording it 100% to your standards.

No problem, I get where you're coming from and it's all good. I'm a test engineer as I previously mentioned, and in my line of work you always have to be highly technical and accurate or you're finished career-wise. After a while, it just becomes a way of life. So, my apologies if you thought I was too technical.

 

[iLikeTurtles]

No problem, I get where you're coming from and it's all good. I'm a test engineer as I previously mentioned, and in my line of work you always have to be highly technical and accurate or you're finished career-wise.

it’s like engineering degrees vs technology degrees haha. This feels like being at work.