2019 dependability rankings, Fiat struggles being LAST out of 31 groups

[dutchman187]

This is also my first RAM and trust me I had similar concerns when buying. I love my truck to death, but I also recognize that I have no clue what the actual reliability will be on it yet. But I liked the truck so much, including some options that were simply deal breakers for my wife if I were to purchase a truck, that I pulled the trigger. To put my mind at ease, I simply got the lifetime warranty (no longer available). There are extended warranties you could put on it that should give you comfort in case reliability truly presents itself as an issue.

 

[GoMango16]

They are mechanical products and anything can go wrong. Reading some articles by desk drivers are a joke as most drive foreign products.

 

[Patsy1099]

You are correct, I see that as well. So look at the ratings of Lexus and Toyota, it is the same mother, the same mission statement. Fiat is the mother, the decision maker on how all things get built across the board. If Fiat was #1 on the list then RAM would also be in the hero group don't you think?

Not necessarily. Different brands get different focus and quality. Some markets will accept less, while others won’t. The overseas market is a completely different animal than the US market. The features and quality will vary dramatically. Even within the US market, different segments are targeted differently. That’s why you have so many different brands under the Corp umbrella to begin with. There’s nothing wrong with “disposable” as long as you know what you’re getting and get what you pay for.

 

[RPeezy]

You are correct, I see that as well. So look at the ratings of Lexus and Toyota, it is the same mother, the same mission statement. Fiat is the mother, the decision maker on how all things get built across the board. If Fiat was #1 on the list then RAM would also be in the hero group don't you think?

Well, there's a big difference between Fiat and Chrysler, so I'm not sure any conclusions can be drawn.

 

[Rustydodge]

You are correct, I see that as well. So look at the ratings of Lexus and Toyota, it is the same mother, the same mission statement. Fiat is the mother, the decision maker on how all things get built across the board. If Fiat was #1 on the list then RAM would also be in the hero group don't you think?

No. Fiat brand in NA is small cars (500, 500L, 500X, spider), Ram brand is not closely related. Different components, different manufacturing, different consumer (who will respond to surveys differently as well). Toyota and Lexus brands are much more closely related, with similar models that are branded and look different, one in standard and one in premium JD power segment.

Similarly, i wouldn't look at Ford Focus rating and apply that to Ford F150 rating.

It is silly when folks refer to a ram truck as a fiat. Some do it out of ignorance, some due it intentionally as an insult. When fiat parent company purchased chrysler, dodge/ram trucks didn't suddenly change over night to become an unreliable european small car (what most Americans think of when they hear fiat). Majority of the design, engineering, development team remained. The new ownership did open up the pocket book in some areas though, interior being one.

 

[JayMann]

Nice, that is a catchy saying you have there, is it suppose to be meaningful in some way?

For the car illiterate:

Fiat has had the unreliable reputation for ages. Chrysler has also had its demons in the US. But if you think Fortune 500 company culture can be changed in a matter of a decade or two when 2 large companies like this merge... have I got some land on the moon to sell you.

If there ARE going to be reliability problems, they're gonna be Chrysler/RAM related, not a chassis rusting issue that the FIAT panda from the 90s had. Yes, FIAT is in last place but the report differentiated between Chrysler, FIAT, and I think maybe a few other FCA brands. So take that report with a grain of salt.

This is my first truck purchase and I was not loyal to any brand. In my research across Ford/Chevy/RAM - they won out on price and the fact that the other two were having issues just as much as RAM.

Go to the F150 forum, and you'll hear about leather seats sagging and discoloring, moon roofs leaking, SYNC glitch issues, MPGs not being all that they were thought to be on the ecoboost (a lot of people are now actively seeking the 5.0 again).

Chevy/GM: There are rear end frame creaking/popping issues. Again, the infotainment has had a few glitches of their own. HOT TAKE/Opinion on their interior but: I think it's the worst of the 3/i DO like the exterior though. And they have the weakest engine I believe.

RAM: I had a loose sway bar end link so that rattled until it was fixed. Some people have found their moonroof leaking. Same glitches here and there on the UConnect.

Conclusion: If you really don't have to have it, don't get a sunroof, no matter what brand you go with lol. Also, pick your poison on which problem with which brand you're willing to deal with and go with it. I picked RAM because of the interior and the engine being a bit stronger. The exterior is not my favorite but I don't drive the truck while looking at it so it was an easy choice for me.

 

[George]

No. Fiat brand in NA small cars (500, 500L, 500X, spider), Ram brand is not closely related. Different components, different manufacturing, different consumer (who will respond to surveys differently as well). Toyota and Lexus brands are much more closely related, with similar models that are branded and look different, one in standard and one in premium JD power segment.

Similarly, i wouldn't look at Ford Focus rating and apply that to Ford F150 rating.

It is silly when folks refer to a ram truck as a fiat. Some do it out of ignorance, some due it intentionally as an insult. When fiat parent company purchased chrysler, dodge/ram trucks didn't suddenly change over night to become an unreliable european small car (what most Americans think of when they hear fiat). Majority of the design, engineering, development team remained. The new ownership did open up the pocket book in some areas though, interior being one.

Some of the things you say may be correct and I do not have the data to disagree with you but I can detect some opinion here as well. My belief radar tells me corporate culture is corporate culture from the top down and Fiat IS who they are and you seem to understand what their history is. RAM does not tell Fiat what to do or how to act, it is the other way around. But none of this means that your RAM will have any problems at all. When Daimler was in charge RAM did not turn in to the Mercedes Benz of trucks either.

 

[JayMann]

Some of the things you say may be correct and I do not have the data to disagree with you but I can detect some opinion here as well. My belief radar tells me corporate culture is corporate culture from the top down and Fiat IS who they are and you seem to understand what their history is. RAM does not tell Fiat what to do or how to act, it is the other way around. But none of this means that your RAM will have any problems at all. When Daimler was in charge RAM did not turn in to the Mercedes Benz of trucks either.

100% there's opinion there. Some people LOVE the chevy interior. I work with someone that prefers the less roomy silverado.

I am the complete opposite, I love the living room feel of the back seats in my crew cab - the reclining rear seat feature is a nice road trip addition that got me to buy this truck as well.

 

[George]

For the car illiterate:

Fiat has had the unreliable reputation for ages. Chrysler has also had its demons in the US. But if you think Fortune 500 company culture can be changed in a matter of a decade or two when 2 large companies like this merge... have I got some land on the moon to sell you.

If there ARE going to be reliability problems, they're gonna be Chrysler/RAM related, not a chassis rusting issue that the FIAT panda from the 90s had. Yes, FIAT is in last place but the report differentiated between Chrysler, FIAT, and I think maybe a few other FCA brands. So take that report with a grain of salt.

This is my first truck purchase and I was not loyal to any brand. In my research across Ford/Chevy/RAM - they won out on price and the fact that the other two were having issues just as much as RAM.

Go to the F150 forum, and you'll hear about leather seats sagging and discoloring, moon roofs leaking, SYNC glitch issues, MPGs not being all that they were thought to be on the ecoboost (a lot of people are now actively seeking the 5.0 again).

Chevy/GM: There are rear end frame creaking/popping issues. Again, the infotainment has had a few glitches of their own. HOT TAKE/Opinion on their interior but: I think it's the worst of the 3/i DO like the exterior though. And they have the weakest engine I believe.

RAM: I had a loose sway bar end link so that rattled until it was fixed. Some people have found their moonroof leaking. Same glitches here and there on the UConnect.

Conclusion: If you really don't have to have it, don't get a sunroof, no matter what brand you go with lol. Also, pick your poison on which problem with which brand you're willing to deal with and go with it. I picked RAM because of the interior and the engine being a bit stronger. The exterior is not my favorite but I don't drive the truck while looking at it so it was an easy choice for me.

Well, big difference from your first post, maybe I judge too quickly. I agree with just about everything you said here and as weird as it is I am in the same boat. My BMW is currently in the shop since Thanksgiving (78,000 miles and two years out of warranty), turbo blew and there are no parts available they said until July. So they give me my choice of rental. First month was 2019 GMC, nice truck, good ride, good point and shoot, don't like the interior, dated. Second month 2019 RAM nice truck, ride is also good, good steering, power from 0 to whatever is incredible crazy, can't get enough of it, both trucks were entry level. Last week switch to higher end loaded up Ford Lariat, nice truck, rides like a truck, 5.0 is lazy with the 10 speed tranny trying to figure what gear is the best one to be in. It only had 200 miles on it so the power may be a learning thing but the RAM was a monster machine when my foot pushed on the pedal from beginning to end. Notice I said BMW gave me a rental knowing it might take eight months to fix my out of warranty car and 50% off of work order. I go into a RAM dealer (4 in my area) and they all look like third world shady mechanic shops and all of the salespeople look like they come of of the set of a "Used Cars" movie from the 80's staring Kurt Russell. So I ask if the Ram needs service would I get a loner, we laugh and laugh at that one. So culture shock, reliability, buying process, service after the sale, I am not in Kansas anymore. I am NO Fanboy of any make but I currently have a BMW, Porsche (both diesels), before that Infinite and Lexus LS so I know what a dealer should look like and act like and I know how they treat their customers. And we are talking close to the same sticker price points as well. So yeah I am a little skeptical about this purchase and have to make a decision now as I have been informed that my turbo part is in.

 

[JayMann]

Well, big difference from your first post, maybe I judge too quickly. I agree with just about everything you said here and as weird as it is I am in the same boat. My BMW is currently in the shop since Thanksgiving (78,000 miles and two years out of warranty), turbo blew and there are no parts available they said until July. So they give me my choice of rental. First month was 2019 GMC, nice truck, good ride, good point and shoot, don't like the interior, dated. Second month 2019 RAM nice truck, ride is also good, good steering, power from 0 to whatever is incredible crazy, can't get enough of it, both trucks were entry level. Last week switch to higher end loaded up Ford Lariat, nice truck, rides like a truck, 5.0 is lazy with the 10 speed tranny trying to figure what gear is the best one to be in. It only had 200 miles on it so the power may be a learning thing but the RAM was a monster machine when my foot pushed on the pedal from beginning to end. Notice I said BMW gave me a rental knowing it might take eight months to fix my out of warranty car and 50% off of work order. I go into a RAM dealer (4 in my area) and they all look like third world shady mechanic shops and all of the salespeople look like they come of of the set of a "Used Cars" movie from the 80's staring Kurt Russell. So I ask if the Ram needs service would I get a loner, we laugh and laugh at that one. So culture shock, reliability, buying process, service after the sale, I am not in Kansas anymore. I am NO Fanboy of any make but I currently have a BMW, Porsche (both diesels), before that Infinite and Lexus LS so I know what a dealer should look like and act like and I know how they treat their customers. And we are talking close to the same sticker price points as well. So yeah I am a little skeptical about this purchase and have to make a decision now as I have been informed that my turbo part is in.

oh gah

I came from BMWs (e36 and e92) and Minis so I KNOW the difference in dealership experience and yes, I can tell you without a doubt, that you're going to feel like you're walking into a dollar general compared to Porsche/BMW shops. You'd either have to accept the fact that the dealership experience will never match the luxurious interior of the updated RAM 1500 OR you may have to wait to see if Mercedes brings over their midsize truck to the US but even then, you'd be out a really roomy interior, sorry I just can't get over how much room this and the F150 have. I read somewhere that the new chevy has at least the same room as the F150 and RAM but these just FEEL bigger even if they are the same.

 

[JayMann]

Chevy also feels the most basic with F150 being a little nicer, if dated, and then obviously RAM having the nicest interior.

 

[billyraff]

I'd say Ram is doing alright so far...

2019 Ram 1500 - Motor Trend Truck of the Year
2019 Ram 1500 - Best of Show Award - New York International Auto Show
2019 Ram 1500 - Popular Mechanics - Truck of the year
2019 Ram 1500 - Wards Best Interior Winner
2019 Ram 1500 - North American Truck of the Year from MotorWeek
2019 Ram 1500 - Editors' Choice Award from Edmunds
2019 Ram 1500 - Best Pickup Truck of 2019 from Cars.com
2019 Ram 1500 - Best Family Car from the Greater Atlanta Automotive Media Association
2019 Ram 1500 - Pickup Truck of the Year from Four Wheeler Magazine

 

[ForTehNguyen]

my issue with these "problems per 100 vehicles" is you have no idea what the problem break down is. They do say they rate it in different categories but without seeing the breakout a bluetooth phone not connecting is rated the same as an exploded engine or an interior rattle is rated the same as a cratered transmission. They need to release seperate lists for engine, transmission, electronics, body, suspension, etc.

When you look at the extreme ends, Lexus has 1.06 problems/vehicle vs Fiat with 2.49 problems/vehicle. That really isnt a lot of spread. And really a BMW has 1.22 problems/vehicle when a lexus has 1.06???

 

[George]

I'd say Ram is doing alright so far...

2019 Ram 1500 - Motor Trend Truck of the Year
2019 Ram 1500 - Best of Show Award - New York International Auto Show
2019 Ram 1500 - Popular Mechanics - Truck of the year
2019 Ram 1500 - Wards Best Interior Winner
2019 Ram 1500 - North American Truck of the Year from MotorWeek
2019 Ram 1500 - Editors' Choice Award from Edmunds
2019 Ram 1500 - Best Pickup Truck of 2019 from Cars.com
2019 Ram 1500 - Best Family Car from the Greater Atlanta Automotive Media Association
2019 Ram 1500 - Pickup Truck of the Year from Four Wheeler Magazine

That is fact and a good start, my hope is they live up to it. Now they need to walk the walk or in this case ride the ride.

 

[Ramit392]

I'd say Ram is doing alright so far...

2019 Ram 1500 - Motor Trend Truck of the Year
2019 Ram 1500 - Best of Show Award - New York International Auto Show
2019 Ram 1500 - Popular Mechanics - Truck of the year
2019 Ram 1500 - Wards Best Interior Winner
2019 Ram 1500 - North American Truck of the Year from MotorWeek
2019 Ram 1500 - Editors' Choice Award from Edmunds
2019 Ram 1500 - Best Pickup Truck of 2019 from Cars.com
2019 Ram 1500 - Best Family Car from the Greater Atlanta Automotive Media Association
2019 Ram 1500 - Pickup Truck of the Year from Four Wheeler Magazine

That pretty much sums it up!

 

[Shadow14]

The latest issue of Consumer Reports is already some negative 19 RAM items. How they can predict that who knows. I had a 2015 RAM for three years with zero problems and my 19 has had zero problems. So I have only a positive experience and recommend the RAM over other makes.

 

[R1nZX]

The first time I encountered the JD Power study I was astounded that the highest ranked car had over 100 problems PER 100 VEHICLES! That seemed unbelievable, until you realize a few things about the study. First, none of the problems are verified, they're just survey responses. Second, they consider anything a problem: a slight rattle, a vibration that no one can feel except you, etc. Third, a transmission falling out is considered the same as the aforementioned rattle or vibration. They're all just "problems."

The largest category of problems were audio/entertainment/nav related, and the single most commonly reported problem was Bluetooth pairing. So saying this is about "dependability" is pretty misleading. None of those things are what most of us think of when we're concerned with how reliable our vehicles will be.

It's interesting to me that RAM tied with Acura. I perceive Acura to be a high-quality, very reliable brand. RAM also came in above both Volvo and Land Rover.

I bought my Ram because for the criteria that mattered to me it was head and shoulders above Ford, Chevy, and Toyota. I had no illusions that it would be one of the most trouble-free cars on the road, but I don't plan to drive it for 20 years.

 

[George]

This is also my first RAM and trust me I had similar concerns when buying. I love my truck to death, but I also recognize that I have no clue what the actual reliability will be on it yet. But I liked the truck so much, including some options that were simply deal breakers for my wife if I were to purchase a truck, that I pulled the trigger. To put my mind at ease, I simply got the lifetime warranty (no longer available). There are extended warranties you could put on it that should give you comfort in case reliability truly presents itself as an issue.

When did they end the Lifetime warranty and would you happen to know why?

 

[Electrical]

You are correct, I see that as well. So look at the ratings of Lexus and Toyota, it is the same mother, the same mission statement. Fiat is the mother, the decision maker on how all things get built across the board. If Fiat was #1 on the list then RAM would also be in the hero group don't you think?

Some of the things you say may be correct and I do not have the data to disagree with you but I can detect some opinion here as well. My belief radar tells me corporate culture is corporate culture from the top down and Fiat IS who they are and you seem to understand what their history is. RAM does not tell Fiat what to do or how to act, it is the other way around. But none of this means that your RAM will have any problems at all. When Daimler was in charge RAM did not turn in to the Mercedes Benz of trucks either.

Idk if the power structure or culture is as you envision. Maybe to a degree, or in some regards, but the Mopar side of the merged FCA is where the money is made; by far. Very far. The Italian overlords are smart enough to not upset that apple cart; so much so that when Sergio passed, the new CEO was plucked from the Jeep brand: Mike Manley. If anything, I see the Fiat culture adapting to the Mopar culture moreso than vice-versa.

Definitely be alarmed and troubled by reliability ratings but at the same time, understand the context. Idk about Fiat but Mopar bones are 100% solid. I'm going on over a decade and 200,000 miles in Mopar's with gas-n-go reliability. Rock solid engines, trannies, suspension... now if they can only get a grasp on the DUMB little stuff like that drainage grommet. I mean c'mon!

Anyway. Mopar's are enjoyable vehicles. Keep doing what you're doing (reading, asking, etc) and you'll find your answer

 

[George]

Idk if the power structure or culture is as you envision. Maybe to a degree, or in some regards, but the Mopar side of the merged FCA is where the money is made; by far. Very far. The Italian overlords are smart enough to not upset that apple cart; so much so that when Sergio passed, the new CEO was plucked from the Jeep brand: Mike Manley. If anything, I see the Fiat culture adapting to the Mopar culture moreso than vice-versa.

Definitely be alarmed and troubled by reliability ratings but at the same time, understand the context. Idk about Fiat but Mopar bones are 100% solid. I'm going on over a decade and 200,000 miles in Mopar's with gas-n-go reliability. Rock solid engines, trannies, suspension... now if they can only get a grasp on the DUMB little stuff like that drainage grommet. I mean c'mon!

Anyway. Mopar's are enjoyable vehicles. Keep doing what you're doing (reading, asking, etc) and you'll find your answer

I see you keeping using the "Mopar" name and for good reason. I say this because my next door neighbor owns "Wellborn Musclecar Museum", really nice place.

wellbornmuseum