Dip stick?

[mikeru82]

I don't disagree with that but think about things from the general public's perspective rather than the enthusiast; how many buyers actually open their hood and check anything?
I'd bet everything I own that 95-99% of the auto driving population NEVER looks under their hood much less check the oil dipstick and stellantis realized this.

I'd also bet that the system employed now cost far more than a simple dipstick so it wasn't done for riniancil reasons, it was likely done to alert idiot drivers of a problem before it was a more expensive problem for the very same reason above, no ones checks their oil level

No argument about that. I get that Ram isn't making design decisions based on what I want or don't want. I agree that the oil level sensor system likely costs more than a dip stick. And I don't have a problem with a vehicle being so equipped. But I don't really understand why they couldn't have both a sensor and a dip stick. Truck owners are more likely than luxury car owners to do their own maintenance. I've owned several Audi's with no engine oil dip stick, including my current A6 Allroad. But on every one of those cars there was a dip stick tube installed. Dealerships use them to extract oil during oil changes. So I've been able to purchase a dip stick for those cars. I believe it was @Cbty2050 who said the Hurricane engines don't even have that.

 

[Cbty2050]

I believe it was @Cbty2050 who said the Hurricane engines don't even have that.

I don't know if it was me or not. There is a flat spot on the oil pan(iirc) that was used for a dipstick in pre-production engines. They should have left the dipstick tube. Many European cars have no dipsticks and have no issues, some people over reacting to change.

 

[HemiDude]

Burning or using enough oil to impact the amount of oil in the oil pan is gonna smoke and smoke alot. The only way you're slowly burning oil and emptying an oil pan while showing no signs of smoke is if you're going 15K+ miles or years between oil changes

Which, if one is looking at a used vehicle without a dipstick, is quite possible.

 

[BowDown]

Yes you can over fill an engine with a dipstick, if you think a dipstick is going to save from over filling or under filling you are mistaken.

Yep, I've done it before albeit when I was 16 but nonetheless, the dipstick doesn't prevent overfill

 

[BowDown]

No argument about that. I get that Ram isn't making design decisions based on what I want or don't want. I agree that the oil level sensor system likely costs more than a dip stick. And I don't have a problem with a vehicle being so equipped. But I don't really understand why they couldn't have both a sensor and a dip stick. Truck owners are more likely than luxury car owners to do their own maintenance. I've owned several Audi's with no engine oil dip stick, including my current A6 Allroad. But on every one of those cars there was a dip stick tube installed. Dealerships use them to extract oil during oil changes. So I've been able to purchase a dip stick for those cars. I believe it was @Cbty2050 who said the Hurricane engines don't even have that.

Because doing so would incur extra costs that in their eyes were unnecessary, especially given how many people never check anything. How many people do you see everyday driving on low or flat tires and all you need to do is look at it walking by.

I don't believe that truck owners are more than likely to do their own maintenance vs luxury car owners, we don't live in that type of society anymore. Ask your coworkers how many of them even change an air filter. Of everyone I know, if you subtract the car people, none of them do or can do any auto maintenance. We live in a society where most people pay someone to mow their own lawn

 

[BowDown]

Which, if one is looking at a used vehicle without a dipstick, is quite possible.

That's possible on a car with a dipstick; having a dipstick is no guarantee that the previous owner took care of the maintenance
If you're looking at a used car, you're not changing the oil and other fluids the minute you buy it? The dipstick would be meaningless in that situation and wouldn't tell me a thing. Ideally, I'd like the seller to pull a valve cover and let me look at the top of the cylinder head, that'll tell me more about how the vehicle was maintained than a dipstick would.

And if I'm being honest, I have to remind myself to check the oil level (using the dipstick) in my Z06 and its got a $20k built engine in it. Having a dipstick is no guarantee of anything

 

[HemiDude]

That's possible on a car with a dipstick; having a dipstick is no guarantee that the previous owner took care of the maintenance
If you're looking at a used car, you're not changing the oil and other fluids the minute you buy it? The dipstick would be meaningless in that situation and wouldn't tell me a thing. Ideally, I'd like the seller to pull a valve cover and let me look at the top of the cylinder head, that'll tell me more about how the vehicle was maintained than a dipstick would.

And if I'm being honest, I have to remind myself to check the oil level (using the dipstick) in my Z06 and its got a $20k built engine in it. Having a dipstick is no guarantee of anything

Condition of oil on a used vehicle is more important to me than level. As far as the seller pulling a valve cover, in most cases that is a non-starter.

 

[BowDown]

Condition of oil on a used vehicle is more important to me than level. As far as the seller pulling a valve cover, in most cases that is a non-starter.

I agree on opening the engine up, my point was that having a dipstick would provided me with zero helpful information

 

[1791]

There are far more expensive cars made without dipsticks.

and they ALL should have them

 

[1791]

The price of the truck is completely irrelevant. I don't get why people include the price of the truck as some factor to how it should work or what it should have. The hurricane block in the 40k truck is the same as the 90k truck.

my camaro didn't have a transmission dipstick it did have a rubber plug where the tube went. the aftermarket came to the rescue with a 300 dollar dipstick kinda pricey, something gm could have included for under 10 bucks.
come to think of it my freaking ram don't have a trans dipstick .
i drove a fuel tanker truck and gas stations have a sensor that tells them how much fuel is in the tanks but ya know we still had to stick the tanks with a 20 plus foot long wood 1x1 ruler........why well because they don't trust the sensor they do trust a visual inspection.

 

[HemiDude]

my camaro didn't have a transmission dipstick it did have a rubber plug where the tube went. the aftermarket came to the rescue with a 300 dollar dipstick kinda pricey, something gm could have included for under 10 bucks.
come to think of it my freaking ram don't have a trans dipstick .
i drove a fuel tanker truck and gas stations have a sensor that tells them how much fuel is in the tanks but ya know we still had to stick the tanks with a 20 plus foot long wood 1x1 ruler........why well because they don't trust the sensor they do trust a visual inspection.

I worked at a service station years ago. We “stuck” the tanks every morning and after every delivery, and part of the reason was to check for water or dirt. Just because a tanker was full didn’t mean it was full of clean gasoline.

 

[HSKR R/T]

my camaro didn't have a transmission dipstick it did have a rubber plug where the tube went. the aftermarket came to the rescue with a 300 dollar dipstick kinda pricey, something gm could have included for under 10 bucks.
come to think of it my freaking ram don't have a trans dipstick .
i drove a fuel tanker truck and gas stations have a sensor that tells them how much fuel is in the tanks but ya know we still had to stick the tanks with a 20 plus foot long wood 1x1 ruler........why well because they don't trust the sensor they do trust a visual inspection.

Know what else doesn't have dipsticks. Your transfer case, front and rear differentials, and your windshield washer fluid. I bet you've never complained about any of those. Windshield washer has a level sensor on it . You probably never think about that failing.

 

[BowDown]

my camaro didn't have a transmission dipstick it did have a rubber plug where the tube went. the aftermarket came to the rescue with a 300 dollar dipstick kinda pricey, something gm could have included for under 10 bucks.
come to think of it my freaking ram don't have a trans dipstick .
i drove a fuel tanker truck and gas stations have a sensor that tells them how much fuel is in the tanks but ya know we still had to stick the tanks with a 20 plus foot long wood 1x1 ruler........why well because they don't trust the sensor they do trust a visual inspection.

Yet you survived all these years without it. See, you just think you need it

 

[BowDown]

This really seems like a simple fix, the 3.0 doesn't have a physical oil dipstick, dont buy it. The HEMI is back and has a physical dipstick, buy that

 

[NorskieRider]

Yes you can over fill an engine with a dipstick, if you think a dipstick is going to save from over filling or under filling you are mistaken.

Well, yes, but the context is that the sensors can malfunction and report a lower than actual level. The dipstick is great tool to corroborate that.

Know what else doesn't have dipsticks. Your transfer case, front and rear differentials, and your windshield washer fluid. I bet you've never complained about any of those. Windshield washer has a level sensor on it . You probably never think about that failing.

The consequences of low washer fluid isn't catastrophic.
The other components you listed don't have a way to 'consume' it's fluid like and engine does, nor do they require frequent changing, so it's harder to justify sensors etc. on those.

This really seems like a simple fix, the 3.0 doesn't have a physical oil dipstick, dont buy it. The HEMI is back and has a physical dipstick, buy that

Nah, as I stated previously, it would be nice to have a dipstick but the presence of one isn't a determining factor in engine choice.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Well, yes, but the context is that the sensors can malfunction and report a lower than actual level. The dipstick is great tool to corroborate that.



The consequences of low washer fluid isn't catastrophic.
The other components you listed don't have a way to 'consume' it's fluid like and engine does, nor do they require frequent changing, so it's harder to justify sensors etc. on those.

You obviously don't live anywhere it snows if you think running out of washer fluid can't be catastrophic.

And the other components can develop leaks. As far as requiring frequent changes, a properly maintained engine shouldn't burn enough oil between changes for it to be an issue. So frequent changes doesn't help your argument. if you engine does burn that much oil, then you should be able to keep track of that easily enough with the sensor, and know if it's reading accurate or not.

 

[HemiDude]

This really seems like a simple fix, the 3.0 doesn't have a physical oil dipstick, dont buy it. The HEMI is back and has a physical dipstick, buy that


View attachment 211335

And bypass all of this quality discussion?!?!

 

[mikeru82]

Well, yes, but the context is that the sensors can malfunction and report a lower than actual level. The dipstick is great tool to corroborate that.



The consequences of low washer fluid isn't catastrophic.
The other components you listed don't have a way to 'consume' it's fluid like and engine does, nor do they require frequent changing, so it's harder to justify sensors etc. on those.



Nah, as I stated previously, it would be nice to have a dipstick but the presence of one isn't a determining factor in engine choice.

Save your breath. There's no reasoning with some people. They obviously know what's best for everyone here and we should just heed their words.

 

[NorskieRider]

You obviously don't live anywhere it snows if you think running out of washer fluid can't be catastrophic.

Right, thanks to global warming, it hasn't snowed in Minnesota for many decades.

Never had an issue when run out of wiper fluid on older vehicles which didn't have sensors. When it happens I pull over and refill from the bottle in the trunk. I like that newer vehicles have sensors for when it's low, it's a great convenience. But not really required. Now, having the wiper motor on my Mustang stop working ... that's a different story.

And the other components can develop leaks. As far as requiring frequent changes, a properly maintained engine shouldn't burn enough oil between changes for it to be an issue. So frequent changes doesn't help your argument. if you engine does burn that much oil, then you should be able to keep track of that easily enough with the sensor, and know if it's reading accurate or not.

What was my argument again? Oh yeah, that it sort of makes sense that non-engine fluids don't have sensors.

Engine oil is changed much more frequently (~ 5k) than transmission, xfer and diff's (~50k). There just aren't as many reasons to frequently check the non-engine fluids because we don't often change them, and leaks present visual clues. Anyone prone to check their xfer/diff/trans fluids are also likely to actually look at the components.

I would argue that a properly maintained and engineered engine shouldn't consume enough oil between changes for it to be an issue, and most of us would agree that any significant consumption would be problematic. However, the manufacturers have documented that some oil consumption is normal, especially when they prescribe 10k OCI's. It's usually something like "Less than 1L per 1000km" or "1qt per 1000 miles" before they'll tackle it as a warranty issue. Personally I feel this is a cop-out (and I don't go 10k between changes).

But anyways, back when I had an Audi (which had a tube but no dipstick, and could be added later) there wasn't a month that went by with a new forum member complaining that they overfilled and killed their engine because the sensors returned an incorrectly low level. There is definitely a good reason to have a dipstick, but I wouldn't consider it a requirement in choosing an engine.

 

[NorskieRider]

if you think running out of washer fluid can't be catastrophic.

I think I'm going to rescind my previous statement/position, and agree with you, now that I've had some time to think about it.

While I was thinking about catastrophic component damage, I didn't specifically write that. You're right that running out of wiper fluid when needed isn't fun and could lead to a dangerous (catastrophic) driving situation, and for that reason I'll admit that I do appreciate having the sensors on the wiper reservoir.