Ball recommendations, payload, and other newbie towing questions

[Rau]

I have a question. Is there any way to decrease tong weight of the trailer by adding more weight in the back of trailer? I am looking to buy a bunk house and it has storage space in front and in the back side under bunk beds.
I understand that when I add weight in the back I still contribute to gross trailer weight, but as far as I understand with half ton truck we often exceed payload way before reaching towing capacity.

 

[devildodge]

You do not want a heavy rear of your trailer. You will wag the dog and it will not be fun.

You can store stuff back there, but it would not be a good idea to do it for the sake of lowering tongue weight.

 

[Tonner]

This is in the fine print. Unfortunately the fine print is hard to read.

We spend countless posts trying to explain this.

At first the number was 1840

Every new truck owner wanting to buy a camper thought their truck had 1840 lbs of payload.

Then a member here won a lawsuit with RAM about their truck...and the new number was 1720.

They have gotten better....but they can not possibly get much closer.

Which is why they went to the VIN lookup.

You can find a similarly equiped truck...easily see the VIN and input it for the correct numbers.

Damn. I wish I read these posts prior to purchasing. My fault. I just bought a 2021 Laramie Crew cab 4x4 5’7” bed with etorque and my payload is only 1163. Thats friggin ridiculously low. Granted I have etorque, sunroof and ram boxes and only the 23 gallon tank. If I added the 33 and MFT are we under 1000? That’s horrible for a half ton truck. I’m looking at towing a travel trailer with a hitch weight of 600lbs. That leaves me 563 lbs for all my crap and passengers. I guess I would be better off throwing all the gear in the trailer to tow instead of haul?

 

[devildodge]

Half ton...1000lbs

A fully loaded Powerwagon has 1100lbs of payload. 3/4 ton....1500lbs

These trucks weigh alot.

 

[Tonner]

Half ton...1000lbs

A fully loaded Powerwagon has 1100lbs of payload. 3/4 ton....1500lbs

These trucks weigh alot.

Apparently.......I guess I need to start reading the fine print. I’m thinking I’m getting a truck with a payload of 1800lbs and it’s not even close to that. Rookie mistake.

 

[devildodge]

Apparently.......I guess I need to start reading the fine print. I’m thinking I’m getting a truck with a payload of 1800lbs and it’s not even close to that. Rookie mistake.

It is unfortunate that the manufactures are not more open about this. It is in the explanation anywhere you see payload numbers.

The big thing now is the towing numbers...they are giving the number for max tow as GCWR minus curb weight...so this is without a driver or hitch

Ridiculous

 

[WhattheTruck!]

I’m looking at towing a travel trailer with a hitch weight of 600lbs. That leaves me 563 lbs for all my crap and passengers. I guess I would be better off throwing all the gear in the trailer to tow instead of haul?

If the 600lbs. hitch weight is the weight presented from the manufacturer, it is usually based on the 'Unloaded Vehicle Weight' (UVW) of the TT manufacturer, and the TT UVW weight should be ~5,000lbs using the assumed ideal distribution of weight @.12% hitch and 88% TT. You'll want to check that hitch weight number to verify if it isn't an actual weight you're referencing.

If you throw your gear in there, in addition to the stuff you'd normally pack in your TT, that dry weight is going to go up and your hitch weight will as well @ a rate of ~12lbs. per 100lbs. of gear. When researching TTs, I found that most of the mid-weight/size TTs I was looking at had a GVWR of about 7,200 - 7,800 lbs. However, they only published the UVW hitch weight. Depending on your TT, you'll have about 1,200 - 2,000 lbs. of additional overhead to work with on the TT, so just remember that equates to a more realistic hitch weight of 860 - 950 lbs.

There are definitely TTs out there that fall outside of these general weight assumptions, but these numbers really helped me when figuring out my ideal truck and TT combinations.

 

[Rau]

I still can't comprehend that the config I wanted is not going to be able to pull anything close to what I wanted.
The trailer I want is relatively small one, but according to 12% to 88% ratio I am going to be 1056 lbs on the hitch. I found a very nicely built limited in our area and its payload is even less than this trailer requires.

 

[devildodge]

I still can't comprehend that the config I wanted is not going to be able to pull anything close to what I wanted.
The trailer I want is relatively small one, but according to 12% to 88% ratio I am going to be 1056 lbs on the hitch. I found a very nicely built limited in our area and its payload is even less than this trailer requires.
View attachment 71233

View attachment 71234

None of those numbers add up to each other

 

[revvr]

I updated the title of the thread to include the word "payload", as it seems most of us are buying trucks thinking these things haul a$$, but require a jockey-sized driver who is naked and hasn't put in even hand sanitizer inside the truck to achieve these towing numbers. At least that's the story for those of us who are getting feature-rich trucks.

For those who missed it, my wife's Mazda CX9 (Turbo inline 4 cyl) has the same payload capacity as my Ram 1500 Rebel.

 

[Rau]

None of those numbers add up to each other

12% of 8800 lbs is ~1050 lbs, did I miss something?


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[devildodge]

12% of 8800 lbs is ~1050 lbs, did I miss something?


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I meant on the sticker. The base weight and the payload capacity should add up to the gross. The axles have a capacity of 4000lbs each...the gross is 8800...800 pounds more than both axles.

The dry capacity just doesnt make sense compared to the max.

 

[devildodge]

I think an RV dealer should pay the 12 bucks and take a person out to the CAT scale and show them how the numbers add up.

Must be common core math

 

[LoNeStAr]

12% of 8800 lbs is ~1050 lbs, did I miss something?


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Well first of all you won’t be able to max that trailer weight to 8800 lbs because according to your pic the axles are only rated to 4000 lbs each or 8000 lbs total. Second I would be shocked if you added 2k worth of gear and supplies. I would think 1500 or less. But it still comes back to the fact that your truck doesn’t have enough payload.

 

[LoNeStAr]

None of those numbers add up to each other

Sad thing is I see many travel trailer stickers where they state the GVWR being higher than the GAWR can support

 

[WhattheTruck!]

If you like that floorplan, there are a few ultra-lite models that will save you some weight. The Freedom Express 257BHS, for example, can pair well with a sensibly optioned 1500.

 

[Turin]

Is there any way to decrease tong weight of the trailer by adding more weight in the back of trailer?

You can do that, but you absolutely shouldn't. If you do, please let us know when and where you'll be towing so we can stay clear.

More specifically, don't misload your trailer to get around the payload capacity of your truck.

Proper load distribution is the first and most important factor in trailer stability. Tongue weight should be 10-12% of the gross weight of the trailer. Shifting the weight too far back contributes to trailer sway — making it both more likely and more severe — and trailer sway is something you definitely do not want. This video is an excellent demonstration of what happens when the weight of a trailer isn't distributed properly: Towing a trailer can be dangerous with the wrong weight distribution

You might think "I can just get a hitch that inhibits sway" but that would be wrong. Sway reduction from the hitch is intended to handle sudden changes in conditions (wind gusts, uneven road surface, tire blowouts, etc.) It's not intended to compensate for a poorly loaded trailer.

 

[Rau]

You can do that, but you absolutely shouldn't. If you do, please let us know when and where you'll be towing so we can stay clear.

More specifically, don't misload your trailer to get around the payload capacity of your truck.

Proper load distribution is the first and most important factor in trailer stability. Tongue weight should be 10-12% of the gross weight of the trailer. Shifting the weight too far back contributes to trailer sway — making it both more likely and more severe — and trailer sway is something you definitely do not want. This video is an excellent demonstration of what happens when the weight of a trailer isn't distributed properly: Towing a trailer can be dangerous with the wrong weight distribution

You might think "I can just get a hitch that inhibits sway" but that would be wrong. Sway reduction from the hitch is intended to handle sudden changes in conditions (wind gusts, uneven road surface, tire blowouts, etc.) It's not intended to compensate for a poorly loaded trailer.

I understand it. Thank you for video, it is self explaining.

I have one trailer I and my wife really like. I added the link below. I wanted to ask experienced guys here if it can be towed by a truck with payload of ~1300 lbs.

New 2021 Dutchmen RV Aspen Trail 2550BHS Travel Trailer

Dutchmen Aspen Trail travel trailer 2550BHS highlights: Fireplace Bunk Beds Outdoor Kitchen Rear Corner Bathroom Pass-Through Storage Your family won't want to camp any other way than in this Aspen...

www.dshowalterrv.com

 

[BmoreStew]

I understand it. Thank you for video, it is self explaining.

New 2021 Dutchmen RV Aspen Trail 2550BHS Travel Trailer

Dutchmen Aspen Trail travel trailer 2550BHS highlights: Fireplace Bunk Beds Outdoor Kitchen Rear Corner Bathroom Pass-Through Storage Your family won't want to camp any other way than in this Aspen...

www.dshowalterrv.com

You need to find someone who’s towing a trailer that’s similar in length and weight, with a similarly spec’d truck, and similar load requirements (things like family size, dogs, bed load etc).

Don’t put any stock in what anyone here says who hasn’t towed with a similar setup. The guys who pull a TT under their truck’s capabilities don’t know where the line is (they’ll point at the numbers on the stickers because it’s the only frame of reference they have) and the guys who pull TT’s over the limit may not be able to admit to it to themselves, let alone to you.

If I were your only source of advice, I’d say that 30’ 8k lbs TT right at the ragged edge of a half-ton’s capability and there’s just too much chance that the setup will be subpar, that towing will be stressful to you and the truck. I’d suggest that you look at something 25’ or less and under 5.5k lbs dry weight and ~6.5k GVWR.... and that you buys a decent WDH.

 

[Turin]

I have one trailer I and my wife really like. I added the link below. I wanted to ask experienced guys here if it can be towed by a truck with payload of ~1300 lbs.

New 2021 Dutchmen RV Aspen Trail 2550BHS Travel Trailer

Dutchmen Aspen Trail travel trailer 2550BHS highlights: Fireplace Bunk Beds Outdoor Kitchen Rear Corner Bathroom Pass-Through Storage Your family won't want to camp any other way than in this Aspen...

www.dshowalterrv.com

It's hard to say for sure — the listing doesn't include the dry/wet/hitch weights, and neither does the manufacturer's page.

At a guess, that camper is around 6000 lbs dry. Adding 900 lbs for propane and gear (rough estimate; your cargo could be significantly lighter or heavier) would put you at 6900 lbs wet. At 12% hitch weight you'd be looking at 828 lbs, leaving you around 475 lbs for yourself, your wife, and anything else you plan to put into the truck. Assuming no other passengers or large pets and most of the gear in the camper — I'd say you could probably tow it without exceeding your truck's ratings but you wouldn't have much to spare. It's close enough that you'd need to get the actual specifications and work through the math for your situation (passengers, gear, etc.)