So I just got back from a road trip

[Sir Ramcelot]

MPG varies so much between person to person so you can't use one or two people's claim of 28-30 (not saying you don't get that but to say it's the standard isn't reliable for those deciding between the engine options). That said, Fuelly.com has the following stats based on many vehicles and lots of miles: (ED is about 1 and as you can see they fall close to the monroney sticker averages:

ED (sticker of 24mpg)
2020 = 22.4mpg (28 vehicles, 231 fuel-ups and 100,973 miles tracked)
2019 = 22.3mpg (94 vehicles, 3,717 fuel-ups and 1,701,144 miles tracked)

HEMI (eTorque) (sticker of 19mpg)
2020 = 16.2mpg (49 vehicles, 539 fuel-ups and 168,526 miles tracked)
2019 = 15.6mpg (159 vehicles, 4,745 fuel-ups and 1,498,315 miles tracked)

HEMI (non-eTorque) (sticker of 17mpg)
2020 = 14.5mpg (44 vehicles, 470 fuel-ups and 138,008 miles tracked)
2019 = 15.2mpg (455 vehicles, 16,372 fuel-ups and 4,893,368 miles tracked)

Fuelly Averages:
ED = 22.4mpg
HEMI eTorque: 15.9mpg
HEMI non eTorque: 14.9mpg

100,000 miles driven in 5yrs
non-Etorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/14.9mpg)*$2.19/gal = $14,697.99
eTorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/15.9mpg)*$2.19/gal = $13,773.58
ED total fuel cost = (100,000miles/22.4mpg)*$2.44/gal = $10,892.86
DEF = (100,000miles/7504miles per tank) = 13.33 tanks of DEF
8 gallons DEF * $2.79/gal of DEF =$22.32 per tank of DEF
13.33 tanks of DEF * $22.32 per tank of DEF = $297.53 for DEF over 100,000 miles (5yrs at 20k/yr)

After 5 years at 20k/yr:
Total ED Cost (not including initial purchase price) = ED fuel cost ($10,892.86) + ED DEF ($297.53) + ED MX above HEMI ($600) = $11,790.39
Total non-eTorque Cost = $14,697.99
Total eTorque Cost = $13,773.58

ED vs. non-eTorque = $11,790.39 (total ED cost from above) + $2,720 (initial cost) = $14,510.39 for ED vs. $14,697.99 non-eTorque (savings of $187.6 for ED over 5yrs or $3.13 less per month)
ED vs. eTorque = $11,790.39 (total ED cost from above) + $2,550 (initial cost) = $14,340.39 for ED vs. $13,773.58 eTorque (savings of $566.81 for HEMI over 5yrs or $9.45 less per month)

Even using fuelly, your break-even with mx included is essentially right at 5yrs (not including any interest charges if you finance the vehicle) assuming those gas prices above (TX gas is 60 cents lower per gallon) and 20,000/yr. Obviously the higher the gas prices the better for the ED and the more miles you drive, the better for the ED. Some people it will make sense for but I wanted to show calcs so that most people can see it will never make sense for them. Now if FCA ever lowered the cost to "upgrade" to the ED the math would change.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Thanks for that breakdown.
Just a side note, I’m in the Denver area right now and diesel is actually about 20 cents a gallon LOWER than gas as we “speak”.
Yesterday my brother found diesel for his Dmax for 1.91, while gas (85 octane E-10) is somewhere around 2.20. I’ve seen diesel at other stations around here for 2.05 and E-10 for 2.40. Now that would make owning an ED nicer, at least for now!

 

[Willwork4truck]

You completely ignored my point. I highly recommend selling the Rebel and buying a Prius.

Having owned a Prius for 6 years I’ll tell you that they make a great mini-truck. I hauled lots and lots of bags of dirt, bark mulch and other construction stuff in that hatchback. Abused the pee out if the suspension. Now if it just had awd and a lift, wow!
I did score points with the eco crowd where I parked, I guess I’ll just have to keep the RAM and suffer their scorn for now.

 

[river rat]

Do people get on Prius forums and complain how bad their car tows a boat or trailer?

 

[SpeedyV]

Do people get on Prius forums and complain how bad their car tows a boat or trailer?

I laugh...but this wouldn’t surprise me!

 

[Dusty1948]

But everyone I know with an ED is averaging about 28mpg in their first year, which very well may increase as they break in...and many folks with the hemi are getting lower fuel economy...look at how many fuelly stickers in folks' signatures are 14.3, 15.8 etc

The fuel mileage testimonials for gas powered Rams have a wide range with some in the low-to-mid 20s. Besides the model and equipment variations (gearing, drive, weight, aerodynamics) that impact fuel consumption, the biggest factor will be the driver and driving scenarios.

I hate to say this, but I've also heard diesel guys talk about the differences they get in fuel consumption, even with trucks of the same make.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 035838 miles.

 

[steveved]

While I don't regret getting my Laramie at all. It does kind of bug me that I have never gotten better than 14.5mpg around town and 17.8mpg on the highway. And I have the 3.21 gears and always run the cruise control at 80 mph on the highway. As the OP suggests, one would hope that a modern truck would do better. And I do NOT have a rebel. I have a Laramie with Sport.

And the fact my truck has eTorque is even MORE disappointing...

 

[Rollint]

MPG varies so much between person to person so you can't use one or two people's claim of 28-30 (not saying you don't get that but to say it's the standard isn't reliable for those deciding between the engine options). That said, Fuelly.com has the following stats based on many vehicles and lots of miles: (ED is about 1 and as you can see they fall close to the monroney sticker averages:

ED (sticker of 24mpg)
2020 = 22.4mpg (28 vehicles, 231 fuel-ups and 100,973 miles tracked)
2019 = 22.3mpg (94 vehicles, 3,717 fuel-ups and 1,701,144 miles tracked)

HEMI (eTorque) (sticker of 19mpg)
2020 = 16.2mpg (49 vehicles, 539 fuel-ups and 168,526 miles tracked)
2019 = 15.6mpg (159 vehicles, 4,745 fuel-ups and 1,498,315 miles tracked)

HEMI (non-eTorque) (sticker of 17mpg)
2020 = 14.5mpg (44 vehicles, 470 fuel-ups and 138,008 miles tracked)
2019 = 15.2mpg (455 vehicles, 16,372 fuel-ups and 4,893,368 miles tracked)

Fuelly Averages:
ED = 22.4mpg
HEMI eTorque: 15.9mpg
HEMI non eTorque: 14.9mpg

100,000 miles driven in 5yrs
non-Etorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/14.9mpg)*$2.19/gal = $14,697.99
eTorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/15.9mpg)*$2.19/gal = $13,773.58
ED total fuel cost = (100,000miles/22.4mpg)*$2.44/gal = $10,892.86
DEF = (100,000miles/7504miles per tank) = 13.33 tanks of DEF
8 gallons DEF * $2.79/gal of DEF =$22.32 per tank of DEF
13.33 tanks of DEF * $22.32 per tank of DEF = $297.53 for DEF over 100,000 miles (5yrs at 20k/yr)

After 5 years at 20k/yr:
Total ED Cost (not including initial purchase price) = ED fuel cost ($10,892.86) + ED DEF ($297.53) + ED MX above HEMI ($600) = $11,790.39
Total non-eTorque Cost = $14,697.99
Total eTorque Cost = $13,773.58

ED vs. non-eTorque = $11,790.39 (total ED cost from above) + $2,720 (initial cost) = $14,510.39 for ED vs. $14,697.99 non-eTorque (savings of $187.6 for ED over 5yrs or $3.13 less per month)
ED vs. eTorque = $11,790.39 (total ED cost from above) + $2,550 (initial cost) = $14,340.39 for ED vs. $13,773.58 eTorque (savings of $566.81 for HEMI over 5yrs or $9.45 less per month)

Even using fuelly, your break-even with mx included is essentially right at 5yrs (not including any interest charges if you finance the vehicle) assuming those gas prices above (TX gas is 60 cents lower per gallon) and 20,000/yr. Obviously the higher the gas prices the better for the ED and the more miles you drive, the better for the ED. Some people it will make sense for but I wanted to show calcs so that most people can see it will never make sense for them. Now if FCA ever lowered the cost to "upgrade" to the ED the math would change.

While I don't disagree with your analysis, the numbers vary drastically depending on the situation. For example, if I am doing all HWY driving with CA gas/diesel prices I would recoup the cost from the ED upgrade in about 50k miles...or half of what your model shows. Another way to look at it, which I think is more applicable is this:

..How much extra money per month does the ED add to your truck payment? (for me, about $40).
..How much money would I spend on gas with the ED and the Hemi, using highway mileage (29 vs 20) at 1k miles: ED - (1000/29)*3.2 = $110.34; Hemi - (1000/20)*3.2 = $160
..Now, subtract ED fuel cost from Hemi fuel cost and this is your fuel cost savings: 160 - 110 = $50 in saved fuel.

So every month my truck payment is $40 more expensive but I save $50 in fuel, giving me $10 more than I would have otherwise had. this number only increases with miles driven and when we recognize that on highway, most ED are actually hitting the sticker fuel economy and most Hemi are actually quite a bit under the HWY fuel numbers.

..For example, in real life, I get about 18 HWY with my Hemi and my brothers ED gets about 31 so ((1000/18)*3.2) - ((1000/31)*3.2) = 177 - 103 = $74 saved per month. This more than covers the additional truck payment, cost of DEF and, over the year, the one oil change, and you end up with a more expensive vehicle at basically no extra cost, and will, we hope, have a higher trade-in or resale value (assuming the gen 3 ED is a good motor over the mid- to long-term)

 

[Sir Ramcelot]

While I don't disagree with your analysis, the numbers vary drastically depending on the situation. For example, if I am doing all HWY driving with CA gas/diesel prices I would recoup the cost from the ED upgrade in about 50k miles...or half of what your model shows. Another way to look at it, which I think is more applicable is this:

..How much extra money per month does the ED add to your truck payment? (for me, about $40).
..How much money would I spend on gas with the ED and the Hemi, using highway mileage (29 vs 20) at 1k miles: ED - (1000/29)*3.2 = $110.34; Hemi - (1000/20)*3.2 = $160
..Now, subtract ED fuel cost from Hemi fuel cost and this is your fuel cost savings: 160 - 110 = $50 in saved fuel.

So every month my truck payment is $40 more expensive but I save $50 in fuel, giving me $10 more than I would have otherwise had. this number only increases with miles driven and when we recognize that on highway, most ED are actually hitting the sticker fuel economy and most Hemi are actually quite a bit under the HWY fuel numbers.

..For example, in real life, I get about 18 HWY with my Hemi and my brothers ED gets about 31 so ((1000/18)*3.2) - ((1000/31)*3.2) = 177 - 103 = $74 saved per month. This more than covers the additional truck payment, cost of DEF and, over the year, the one oil change, and you end up with a more expensive vehicle at basically no extra cost, and will, we hope, have a higher trade-in or resale value (assuming the gen 3 ED is a good motor over the mid- to long-term)

Sure I agree if the majority of the miles you drive are highway, you'll make your money faster. In my analysis, the additional mx from the ED works out to about $15/month more. Again, I'm not saying it never works out that the ED is more advantageous, but you can only look at averages when determining break-even and whether it makes sense. If you lie outside the averages (like you stated driving mostly highway miles) you'll clearly make-out. For me and most, that's not the case. I tried to make the numbers work believe me..haha. My decision now is whether the eTorque is worth it..haha.

 

[Rollint]

Sure I agree if the majority of the miles you drive are highway, you'll make your money faster. In my analysis, the additional mx from the ED works out to about $15/month more. Again, I'm not saying it never works out that the ED is more advantageous, but you can only look at averages when determining break-even and whether it makes sense. If you lie outside the averages (like you stated driving mostly highway miles) you'll clearly make-out. For me and most, that's not the case. I tried to make the numbers work believe me..haha. My decision now is whether the eTorque is worth it..haha.

Oh man, I considered the eTorque, too. Sitting at a stoplight watching my mpg go from 15.1 to 15 to 14.9 had me rethinking skipping the eTorque. I was just wasn't clear on what would happen if the etorque system failed, especially offroad or in remote areas. In the end, I went with the straight hemi because I figured that if something breaks out in the wilderness the nearest small town will likely have parts on hand or be able to quickly get them and that might not be the case for ED or the etorque systems.

 

[mtbiker033]

While I don't regret getting my Laramie at all. It does kind of bug me that I have never gotten better than 14.5mpg around town and 17.8mpg on the highway. And I have the 3.21 gears and always run the cruise control at 80 mph on the highway. As the OP suggests, one would hope that a modern truck would do better. And I do NOT have a rebel. I have a Laramie with Sport.

And the fact my truck has eTorque is even MORE disappointing...

seriously? I have a Limited and .321 gears and it does 22 or so at 70mph/1650rpm in 8th gear no etourque

 

[rlc2020]

Did this guy really buy a full size V8 truck and select the model that is SPECIFICALLY MADE TO GO OFF ROAD and then come on here to ***** about his gas mileage?

I'm really getting sick of these threads. The 2wd v6 guys aren't bitching that they keep getting stuck in the mud right? so stop bitching that your offroad model doesn't get the same mileage as they do!

TO REBEL OWNERS: Your truck will get crappier mileage than any other model, cause and effect...
TO THE LARAMIE TRIM AND BELOW GUYS: If you aren't getting 20+ on the highway then you need to learn how to stay off the brakes and stop putting your right foot though the floor all the time.

I and 3 of my friends own ds and dt rams all with the hemi and 4wd. Every one of us averages 16-17mpg combined give or take. I have over 10k miles of long haul trips, all over 75mph and all over 22mpg.

rant over

 

[Biga]

seriously? I have a Limited and .321 gears and it does 22 or so at 70mph/1650rpm in 8th gear no etourque

I do to with my Etorque, you will never see that at 80 mph though. Once you get over 75 is when it starts to go down quit a bit.

 

[Rollint]

I'm really getting sick of these threads. The 2wd v6 guys aren't bitching that they keep getting stuck in the mud right? so stop bitching that your offroad model doesn't get the same mileage as they do!
...rant over

oh boo-hoo....if you're sick of it then move along and quit your bitching easy.

 

[rlc2020]

oh boo-hoo....if you're sick of it then move along and quit your bitching easy.

So I write a post telling you to stop bitching and your response is to tell me to stop bitching?
We got a smart one over here....

or you could have actually thought about the content contained in said post and used your brain, but no, just ignore the facts and disregard logic, sounds about right.

 

[Rollint]

So I write a post telling you to stop bitching and your response is to tell me to stop bitching?
We got a smart one over here....

or you could have actually thought about the content contained in said post and used your brain, but no, just ignore the facts and disregard logic, sounds about right.

haha jUsT iGnOrE FaCTs aND LoGiC. ok, bud. you literally made a post bitching about other people bitching, and you obviously missed the irony of that...then, you made another post bitching about me because I was making fun of you bitching about people bitching. i love it! you really are too much, lol.

 

[rlc2020]

haha jUsT iGnOrE FaCTs aND LoGiC. ok, bud. you literally made a post bitching about other people bitching, and you obviously missed the irony of that...then, you made another post bitching about me because I was making fun of you bitching about people bitching. i love it! you really are too much, lol.

Oh cry me a river Karen. Quit complaining about everyone complaining about everyone complaining and just move on already.

I was calling out all the babies like you on here complaining about MPG. Calling people out does not = bitching. It's the exact opposite of that. Just because you can't handle being called out for the baby that you are doesn't mean you can get all high and mighty. I guess you missed the irony that you cried about being called out for crying.

Enough said.

 

[LaxDfns15]

While I don't regret getting my Laramie at all. It does kind of bug me that I have never gotten better than 14.5mpg around town and 17.8mpg on the highway. And I have the 3.21 gears and always run the cruise control at 80 mph on the highway. As the OP suggests, one would hope that a modern truck would do better. And I do NOT have a rebel. I have a Laramie with Sport.

And the fact my truck has eTorque is even MORE disappointing...

Drop your cruise speed 5-10mph, and you'll see better numbers. You get over that 75mph mark, and you take a big hit.

 

[kilcher]

It’s 2020. No way in hell should a next gen truck have 13mpg

It's 2020. No way in hell someone should still believe the EPA estimates on the window sticker.

It seems like even a basic amount of research before buying the truck would have shown you what type of MPG's people were getting. If MPG's are that important to you then I think you should be mad at yourself for failing to research it ahead of time, not FCA.

 

[VectorZ]

It's 2020. No way in hell someone should still believe the EPA estimates on the window sticker.

It seems like even a basic amount of research before buying the truck would have shown you what type of MPG's people were getting. If MPG's are that important to you then I think you should be mad at yourself for failing to research it ahead of time, not FCA.

Yep, best thing to do is go to Fuelly and take a look at real world experiences and averages.