AC from defrost in all modes

[Albert193500]

Hi All,

My 2019 3500 is having an issue where the AC is coming from the defrost in all modes. To clarify, when in vent mode it seaps from the defrost and constantly fogs up the windshield, the longer i sit or drive the worse it gets. If I turn the wipers on it gets worse much faster. If I put it in foot mode it is substantially worse.

I took it to the dealership and they have a case open due to it being a safety concern but told me that FCA is aware of the issue and there is nothing the can do. It was suggested to put a mat over it or rainx it. I have already rainx it. On the way to and from North Carolina I had to stuff clothes between the dash and windshield in order to drive at night. I checked 3 other trucks on the lot and they all did the same thing. This is a serious safety issue since I live in Florida and the humidity is always through the roof.
Does anyone else have this issue? How are you dealing with it?
Thanks in advance
Albert

Additional note...

My local dealer also did a recalibration of all mode doors and modules. There was no improvement at all.

 

[HeliPilot]

Fog forms when air is "COOLED" to its dew point...The point where dew and air temp are the same, which allows the moisture to "fall" out of the air. AC helps remove moisture from the air. Increasing the temperature setting and placing defrost on max will also raise the windshields ambient temp above the dew point temp. I set mine to 78 degrees the other morning to reduce the fog on my window. Worked great as the truck came up to temp, then I readjusted to a more suitable interior temp setting.

 

[Albert193500]

Thank you, great info. My issue is not just in the morning, it is whenever I have the ac on in any mode setting. The frosting is a concern after dusk into the mid mornings. In the middle of the day here in Florida it's not a issue at 90 degrees and up.

My question is, has anyone figured out how to stop the air flow from the defrost while it is in any other mode?

 

[ldoh]

Thank you, great info. My issue is not just in the morning, it is whenever I have the ac on in any mode setting. The frosting is a concern after dusk into the mid mornings. In the middle of the day here in Florida it's not a issue at 90 degrees and up.

My question is, has anyone figured out how to stop the air flow from the defrost while it is in any other mode?

I haven't heard of a solution yet and others have also noticed this issue. I'm sure the dealership would claim it's working as expected. It might all be tied to the under dash a/c heater core blending snafu. You could file a NHTSA safety complaint related to limited visibility.

Home | NHTSA

Get resources and info about staying safe on America’s roads. And, find out if there’s a recall on your car or how to report a vehicle safety problem.

www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov

 

[Albert193500]

I haven't heard of a solution yet and others have also noticed this issue. I'm sure the dealership would claim it's working as expected. It might all be tied to the under dash a/c heater core blending snafu. You could file a NHTSA safety complaint related to limited visibility.

Home | NHTSA

Get resources and info about staying safe on America’s roads. And, find out if there’s a recall on your car or how to report a vehicle safety problem.

www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov

I might do that. I am going to wait and see if the claims get me anywhere. If not then I will file a complaint with the NHTSA.

Thank you

 

[Firebird]

Following.........

 

[Albert193500]

Update 9/17/19

I got a call back from FCA. As expected, they claimed it was operating as "designed". I stated, as a 25 year mechanic and ASE certified, I will not accept that answer. I can not accept that Ram designed a truck to blow air from the defrost in all modes and fog the windshield while a vehicle is in motion. I can not accept that a truck rated to tow 30k pounds down the same highway as a school bus can obstruct half of the windshield in a night or early morning commute. Nor can I accept that the answer given to me by the service department was to put a rag, dashmat, or other obstruction to further block my view. I am not upset but very concerned, I tow a large 5th wheel with my wife, 2 kids, and a dog. I do not want to be a statistic for the NHTSA or the reason to fix the problem after an accident.

The problem I discovered is that as long as the service department is putting " Could not duplicate, system is operating as designed" on the paperwork they do not have to recognize it is a major safety problem. So I will be heading back to the dealership to report the problem again and this time I will not accept the paperwork with those lines on it. It needs to say something to the effect, air is blowing out of the defrost vent in all modes. I will not accept the paperwork if it says "could not duplicate" or "system operating as designed".

The lady I was speaking to was very understanding and kind, so I am not being negative but just documenting this for myself and others.
@RamCares
@poma31

 

[poma31]

Update 9/17/19

I got a call back from FCA. As expected, they claimed it was operating as "designed". I stated, as a 25 year mechanic and ASE certified, I will not accept that answer. I can not accept that Ram designed a truck to blow air from the defrost in all modes and fog the windshield while a vehicle is in motion. I can not accept that a truck rated to tow 30k pounds down the same highway as a school bus can obstruct half of the windshield in a night or early morning commute. Nor can I accept that the answer given to me by the service department was to put a rag, dashmat, or other obstruction to further block my view. I am not upset but very concerned, I tow a large 5th wheel with my wife, 2 kids, and a dog. I do not want to be a statistic for the NHTSA or the reason to fix the problem after an accident.

The problem I discovered is that as long as the service department is putting " Could not duplicate, system is operating as designed" on the paperwork they do not have to recognize it is a major safety problem. So I will be heading back to the dealership to report the problem again and this time I will not accept the paperwork with those lines on it. It needs to say something to the effect, air is blowing out of the defrost vent in all modes. I will not accept the paperwork if it says "could not duplicate" or "system operating as designed".

The lady I was speaking to was very understanding and kind, so I am not being negative but just documenting this for myself and others.
@RamCares
@poma31

Albert, you touched on so many of the details that I’ve raised and I can tell your level of frustration, I’ve been there a lot lately. This is a major safety issue that could result in injury or even death to us as the driver or someone else on the road if the conditions are right and at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just so you know, I WAS able to get my service rep to add to my paperwork that “cold air blowing from windshield defrost” but that still wasn’t enough for them to merit this an issue or defect. They simply looked at other ram trucks and noted the same air flow and call it “running as expected”. Now since the dealership says this is not a defect FCA has no responsibility to see this any further. As of today my case with FCA has been closed so I must take up any other issues with my dealerships SALES team. This would be possibly seeing if the 2020 models have corrected this issue and if so, strike a possible deal for a buyback (nonclue what kind of value I will be able to retain on a 60k vehicle that now has 2k miles). Although highly unlikely it seems to be my only real short term solution. Aside from that I will be filing my complaints as I’ve promised and will drop our fleet program which at my most recent count puts us at 14 vehicles. If I could get a hold of Jim and John Arrigo brothers I’m sure they would take a different approach.

I’m no mechanic like yourself but I’ve driven 20 vehicles throughout my life and never had this on any other vehicle, including the FCA’s Jeep Wrangler loaner I’ve been driving for the last two weeks

Unless all affected owners file their own complaints with NHTSA I am certain that NOTHING will be resolved. We all must file complaints of our own to get the attention of the enforceable parties and make FCA take steps to fix this bs defective design.

Ram cares isn’t gonna do a damn thing. They just do a poor job of damage control and collect VIN numbers which isn’t much but a sham.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ldoh]

I agree. It's a crazy situation. These new body Ram 1500's have lots of nice creature comforts and features but FCA seriously fumbled the ball on the a/c system. Hopefully NHTSA complaints will get FCA's attention.

 

[Albert193500]

Albert, you touched on so many of the details that I’ve raised and I can tell your level of frustration, I’ve been there a lot lately. This is a major safety issue that could result in injury or even death to us as the driver or someone else on the road if the conditions are right and at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just so you know, I WAS able to get my service rep to add to my paperwork that “cold air blowing from windshield defrost” but that still wasn’t enough for them to merit this an issue or defect. They simply looked at other ram trucks and noted the same air flow and call it “running as expected”. Now since the dealership says this is not a defect FCA has no responsibility to see this any further. As of today my case with FCA has been closed so I must take up any other issues with my dealerships SALES team. This would be possibly seeing if the 2020 models have corrected this issue and if so, strike a possible deal for a buyback (nonclue what kind of value I will be able to retain on a 60k vehicle that now has 2k miles). Although highly unlikely it seems to be my only real short term solution. Aside from that I will be filing my complaints as I’ve promised and will drop our fleet program which at my most recent count puts us at 14 vehicles. If I could get a hold of Jim and John Arrigo brothers I’m sure they would take a different approach.

I’m no mechanic like yourself but I’ve driven 20 vehicles throughout my life and never had this on any other vehicle, including the FCA’s Jeep Wrangler loaner I’ve been driving for the last two weeks

Unless all affected owners file their own complaints with NHTSA I am certain that NOTHING will be resolved. We all must file complaints of our own to get the attention of the enforceable parties and make FCA take steps to fix this bs defective design.

Ram cares isn’t gonna do a damn thing. They just do a poor job of damage control and collect VIN numbers which isn’t much but a sham.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel really bad for your case, as it has been closed for the wrong reasons. Here is a tidbit of information, if 20 other trucks exhibit the same concern, could that mean that all is good or is all bad? If the case is all good then I would like someone to explain how when a recall campaign is issued why does it always affect 1, 2, 3, MILLION vehicles? I will put money on the fact that at one point in the vehicles life cycle it was next to a bunch of vehicles exhibiting the same safety concern. That is a very weak attempt to push the customer off. I guarantee if this ends up as a recall, which it should under the Consumer Product Safety Act which was enacted by the United States Congress, all the UNSOLD trucks they are comparing to ours will be included and deemed as unsafe. I will link the next step in this chain below. This is a government website of the people that handle this type of safety concern. I will also state what the basic requirements are for a recall from a simple Google search. I do not want to start looking into the laws because it's boring and these corporate lawyers know what they are already.

What constitutes a cause for a recall?
"A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards".

How does this issue play into this? Simple, the windshield clouds over in many driving conditions such as after the sun goes down till the sun goes up. The area affected is the southern half of the United States almost all year round. Another key factor is when the windshield is frosted and the headlights of an approaching vehicle hit that dew it causes a whiteout condition.

There is no way that they can say it is normal or a design characteristic of the truck. We are not talking "stiff suspension or harsh vibration" we are talking about the only way you have to see where you are going, there are laws for tint on the windshield which is far less of a safety concern then frosting/clouding/fogging.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw1qrT-Olji-A8GjhIJEeydD&cshid=1568777392000

[/URL]

@RamCares

 

[Albert193500]

Here is a sample video of what it is doing @RamCares . This is after I used heated defrost to clear the initial morning dew. It does this same thing on the highway an night or real early mornings.

Watch "2019 Ram 3500 HD air from defrost in all modes" on YouTube

 

[TurdFerguson]

Mine does it also.

 

[Billy James]

I find that if you set the temperature at a level to equalize windshield temperature; then this clears up pretty quickly. I have the same problem on these humid Florida mornings. So, what I do is set to defrost, full fan, and 80 degrees until it clears (usually 5 to 10 minutes). It does get a little uncomfortably warm; but it works. After that I set it to whatever temp I'm comfortable with and it really isn't much of a problem.
My bet is that the defrost door or defrost door actuator is misaligned; which causes bleed through to the defrost vents as well. Unfortunately, because of the locations of the defrost door and actuator; the entire dash would need to be removed for a repair.

 

[Albert193500]

I find that if you set the temperature at a level to equalize windshield temperature; then this clears up pretty quickly. I have the same problem on these humid Florida mornings. So, what I do is set to defrost, full fan, and 80 degrees until it clears (usually 5 to 10 minutes). It does get a little uncomfortably warm; but it works. After that I set it to whatever temp I'm comfortable with and it really isn't much of a problem.
My bet is that the defrost door or defrost door actuator is misaligned; which causes bleed through to the defrost vents as well. Unfortunately, because of the locations of the defrost door and actuator; the entire dash would need to be removed for a repair.

This happens whether its first start at 6 am or you are driving on the highway at 3 am. The issue is the air constantly comes from the defrost regardless of what mode you have it. If I need to equalize the temp from inside and out, why have AC?
You are correct about it being possibly a mode door or actuator but according to Ram, they recalibrated it all and "looked" up there with a borescope and said all is good.
The windshield does this as soon as the temp differentiates between inside and out because the ac blows at the windshield. It actually gets worse when in foot mode.

 

[Albert193500]

Also worth mentioning, I am not looking for a bandaid or a temporary solution. I am aware of how to manage it but my point is I bought this truck 3 weeks ago and for $60k I should not have to alternate from hot and cold in order to see out of the windshield. For 2019 this is unacceptable to expect the customer to adopt to a known flaw. It is okay to say they are working on a fix for it and ask that we be patient while they work on it.

 

[Albert193500]

Update after my appointment with the dealer...

After speaking with several members of this forum who may remain nameless at this time, I had the dealer try a thing or two. As of now I will just say this was not my idea, I will let the person claim it. This is experimental at this time but we have at least one more truck being tested tomorrow. This is not a fix but a big step on the right direction. I will state my results as of tonight and tomorrow after I hear back from the other truck owner we can post what they did. As of now I have no discernable air coming from the defrost in vent mode. Once the foot mode is engaged it still comes from the defrost. Again it's not fixed but it is much improved. This small step makes it a bit safer to drive. I have not driven it at night as of yet, possibly tomorrow night I will take a trip for testing.

Also this proves it is not a design characteristic. I understand that things take time to fix and when you have a few thousand parts coming together to make one machine it is not always perfect. For me it is more about the way you handle the customer regarding their concerns then the amount of smoke you try and blow up my a$$.

With that all said, I will post my results tomorrow and go from there.

 

[Albert193500]

So, this morning it started to come back out of the defrost vents while in vent mode. After moving the doors for the 10 minute drive to work it slowed down the volume out of the defrost. So I will be heading back to the dealership.

My question is for @RamCares .. I see you reach out to everyone regarding squeaks and rattles but why have you not reached out to me? I'm not downplaying the NVH concerns but this is a visibility concern, safety related.

 

[RedRocketZ28]

My 1500 does the same thing. The dealer took apart my entire dash, checked the blend doors, and even checked several brand new trucks on the lot. They told me it was normal and that they all do that.

Mine also will sound like someone cracked a window open behind the dash at times when the AC is running.

I don't use the AC when the ambient temp is close to what's inside the truck so I rarely have the fogging issue. Now when it rains, and cools off, I will have to run the defrost and increase the temperature a bit to clear the windshield of the fogging if I have the AC on.

 

[RamCares]

So, this morning it started to come back out of the defrost vents while in vent mode. After moving the doors for the 10 minute drive to work it slowed down the volume out of the defrost. So I will be heading back to the dealership.

My question is for @RamCares .. I see you reach out to everyone regarding squeaks and rattles but why have you not reached out to me? I'm not downplaying the NVH concerns but this is a visibility concern, safety related.

Hi Albert193500,
I apologize that you were not reached out to. In the future, the best way to get a hold of us is through private message, as we monitor those closely! If you would like to have a case opened on the Customer Care side, please private message us with your VIN and we would be happy to get this process started for you.

My 1500 does the same thing. The dealer took apart my entire dash, checked the blend doors, and even checked several brand new trucks on the lot. They told me it was normal and that they all do that.

Mine also will sound like someone cracked a window open behind the dash at times when the AC is running.

I don't use the AC when the ambient temp is close to what's inside the truck so I rarely have the fogging issue. Now when it rains, and cools off, I will have to run the defrost and increase the temperature a bit to clear the windshield of the fogging if I have the AC on.

Hi RedRocketZ28,
As mentioned to your fellow forum member, if you would like this documented and looked into further, please do not hesitate to reach to send us a private message.
Alex
Ram Social Care Specialist

 

[Albert193500]

Here is my update from today's visit 9/25/19
I brought it in there for the air not getting cold yesterday as instructed by the service department. They showed me a picture of the temperature at 44.9 degrees after an evacuation and recharge of the freon. When I picked up my truck I felt the air coming from the vents to be cool, not cold. I used my calibrated thermometer and could not get the air below 56 degrees sitting still. When moving at about 40 mph the air got to 60 degrees. I am getting a little frustrated since I have been to them everyday this week and now I need to go back tomorrow. This is costing me time and money.
In addition I have not heard from my case manager all week. I have only had this truck for a few weeks and I have been to the dealership 3 times for the same reasons, air temperature and air flow in the HVAC system.