When to change oil after break in period?

[mikeru82]

I've seen you can buy a mopar extended warranty for unlimited miles but for 7 years max i think. Is that what you saw?

No, what I saw is what I so carefully typed...Unlimited engine and powertrain coverage starting at $1499.00.

I just received the same email. Wondered myself if it was a scam.
View attachment 55021

Yup, that's the one.

 

[Nukegm426]

It’s a free offering from a local dealer. They’re known for it around here

Uh, what lifetime Powertrain warranty??? That went away a few years ago iirc . Current is only 5 years / 100k


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[Nails]

Engines are pre broken in. They run them in factory.

The factory oil has a lot of special additives. Better to leave it. They don't flll it with cheap stuff.

As I Don’t disagree that engines are in a cycle or 2 make sure they are emission compliant off lot. Which may take 10miles to 200 plus. Not uncommon. Some people freak out that vehicles dont actually have “0” miles on it off lot. Lol, I find it fun, I’m somewhat evil too.
I don’t think they are broken in either. I def don’t see super additives in it. At least not for everyday trucks/vehicles. Let’s go up a notch, corvette. Complementary oil change at 500miles. There is a reason for that. Again it’s not a everyday day vehicle either so to speak. A purpose behind it, with specific instructions on how to/not to drive it.

Im not calling you out, or arguing. Let’s discuss, hell you got info I don’t know. Let me have it!! All my research I have found it’s regular 5/20 penn semi synthetic that is factory fill. That’s actually good for break in . I don’t trust that in the engine for 5k plus of what people are told.

 

[LimitedGRR]

It’s a free offering from a local dealer. They’re known for it around here

Must be nice!


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[Aseras]

Factory new engines generally have a far greater additive packages in the oil. If you want to know, send it off to Blackstone. Generally there is much higher levels of lubrication enhancing additives and a higher moly and zinc phosphorous calcium or magnesium than off the shelf oils. They are made to reduce wear and vary by engine and manufacturer.

Honda and Mazda in particular have "magic" additives.

There's even more precedence for using Dino oil of different viscosity blends as the larger molecules keep wear surfaces apart but at the cost of early fatigue. Hence your corvette reference. Break in with special Dino oil and switch to synthetic after the wear has established after 500-1000 miles.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

As a long time member at BITOG (since 2004) I see this question asked dozens and dozens of times a year and the answers are consistently all over the place. You see recommendations to dump the factory fill at 500, 1000, 1500, 5,000 miles or leave it in until the OLM gets to 75% or 50% or 20% or even 0% and everything in between. They are for the most part just random, arbitrarily chosen numbers. One poster in this thread said the dealership told him to bring it in when the OLM hit 40%. Why did the dealership decide 40% was the magical number and not 50%, or 45% or 38%? When I picked up my new Laramie the sticker on the windshield said to bring it in at 5,000 miles for an oil change. That goes against what FCA recommends in the owners manual and is just a random number pulled out of their rear end. If two people have the same vehicle and one dumps the ff at 500 miles and the other dumps theirs at 5,000 or when the OLM is taken down to 0% does that mean the engine in the one done at 500 miles will run better or last longer than the other one? Without extensive long term testing no one can answer that. The op would be just as well off having one of his kids or spouse or co-worker just pick a random number between 1 and 10,000, and change it at that mileage, or pick a number between 0 and 100 and change the ff when the OLM reaches that percentage.

The second question regarding when to switch to synthetic also gets recommendations all over the map. So far in this thread we've been told that these trucks come from the factory with some kind of magical break-in oil, we've also been told it's just plain old Pennzoil semi synthetic and we've been told the ff is full synthetic. So, which is it? The idea that an engine needs to be run on conventional for some arbitrary number of miles before switching to synthetic has no basis in fact, and that is easily proven by looking at vehicles that require 0W-20. FCA, GM, Honda, Toyota and other manufacturers have sold untold millions of regular, everyday cars, SUV's and pickups for many years that come from the factory with 0W-20, including the 3.6L Pentastar. Because of the cold pumping requirements of 0W-20 oils they cannot be made using conventional base stock.

None of the major oil companies list a conventional 0W-20. Some do list a 0W-20 synthetic blend but the overwhelming majority of 0W-20 oils on the shelves at Walmart, Advance Auto, O'Reilly's etc that diyers use are full synthetic. The only synthetic blend 0W-20 Valvoline lists is their Maxlife high mileage but that's not what most people are going to choose for a relatively new,low mileage vehicle. Pennzoil has their Gold synthetic blend but it's not easy to find, the shelves are generally full of Platinum and Ultra Platinum so there's no point chasing down the hard to find synthetic blend 0W20. Honda used to offer their brand in a synthetic blend 0W-20 in addition to their full synthetic but I don't know if they still do or not. So, in summary, if you purchase a vehicle that requires 0W-20 it's going to come from the factory with at a minimum synthetic blend, and more than likely a full synthetic, so when it's time to dump the factory fill there is no option to run a conventional oil until the engine is broken in, whatever that is, before switching to full synthetic.

Of course, high performance vehicles like the Corvette and SRTs come with full synthetic 0W-40 and since there is no conventional or synthetic blend oil in that grade those engines live their whole life on full synthetic oil. There is no reason to believe that there is anything special about the 5.7L that requires some arbitrary break in period using conventional or synthetic blend before switching to full synthetic when you consider the millions of engines out there that have had nothing but synthetic their whole life, including the ones built by FCA, that run for hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

[Nails]

All quality points above

 

[Aseras]

It's also nearly impossible to get a "true" synthetic oil in the US. It is very hard to find a pure Group 4 or Group 5 oil. Most "synthetic oils" sold in the US are group3 hydrocracked regular dino oil. Some Group 3 oils are better than Group 4 or 5 oils in some aspects. In Europe you can't sell a group 3 hydrocracked oil as a synthetic.

AFAIAC synthetic oil in the USA is a lie. Read the certs on the jug not the marketing and labels.

 

[LincolnSixAlpha]

4400 miles on the original oil, no thoughts of swapping it out until the truck says to do so.

 

[Granite2WD]

As a long time member at BITOG (since 2004) I see this question asked dozens and dozens of times a year and the answers are consistently all over the place. You see recommendations to dump the factory fill at 500, 1000, 1500, 5,000 miles or leave it in until the OLM gets to 75% or 50% or 20% or even 0% and everything in between. They are for the most part just random, arbitrarily chosen numbers. One poster in this thread said the dealership told him to bring it in when the OLM hit 40%. Why did the dealership decide 40% was the magical number and not 50%, or 45% or 38%? When I picked up my new Laramie the sticker on the windshield said to bring it in at 5,000 miles for an oil change. That goes against what FCA recommends in the owners manual and is just a random number pulled out of their rear end. If two people have the same vehicle and one dumps the ff at 500 miles and the other dumps theirs at 5,000 or when the OLM is taken down to 0% does that mean the engine in the one done at 500 miles will run better or last longer than the other one? Without extensive long term testing no one can answer that. The op would be just as well off having one of his kids or spouse or co-worker just pick a random number between 1 and 10,000, and change it at that mileage, or pick a number between 0 and 100 and change the ff when the OLM reaches that percentage.

The second question regarding when to switch to synthetic also gets recommendations all over the map. So far in this thread we've been told that these trucks come from the factory with some kind of magical break-in oil, we've also been told it's just plain old Pennzoil semi synthetic and we've been told the ff is full synthetic. So, which is it? The idea that an engine needs to be run on conventional for some arbitrary number of miles before switching to synthetic has no basis in fact, and that is easily proven by looking at vehicles that require 0W-20. FCA, GM, Honda, Toyota and other manufacturers have sold untold millions of regular, everyday cars, SUV's and pickups for many years that come from the factory with 0W-20, including the 3.6L Pentastar. Because of the cold pumping requirements of 0W-20 oils they cannot be made using conventional base stock.

None of the major oil companies list a conventional 0W-20. Some do list a 0W-20 synthetic blend but the overwhelming majority of 0W-20 oils on the shelves at Walmart, Advance Auto, O'Reilly's etc that diyers use are full synthetic. The only synthetic blend 0W-20 Valvoline lists is their Maxlife high mileage but that's not what most people are going to choose for a relatively new,low mileage vehicle. Pennzoil has their Gold synthetic blend but it's not easy to find, the shelves are generally full of Platinum and Ultra Platinum so there's no point chasing down the hard to find synthetic blend 0W20. Honda used to offer their brand in a synthetic blend 0W-20 in addition to their full synthetic but I don't know if they still do or not. So, in summary, if you purchase a vehicle that requires 0W-20 it's going to come from the factory with at a minimum synthetic blend, and more than likely a full synthetic, so when it's time to dump the factory fill there is no option to run a conventional oil until the engine is broken in, whatever that is, before switching to full synthetic.

Of course, high performance vehicles like the Corvette and SRTs come with full synthetic 0W-40 and since there is no conventional or synthetic blend oil in that grade those engines live their whole life on full synthetic oil. There is no reason to believe that there is anything special about the 5.7L that requires some arbitrary break in period using conventional or synthetic blend before switching to full synthetic when you consider the millions of engines out there that have had nothing but synthetic their whole life, including the ones built by FCA, that run for hundreds of thousands of miles.

With the long history of the 3.6 and 5.7 being relatively reliable, I'd be surprised if FCA spent the extra money for nice break-in oil. I don't think 99.9% of engine break-in procedures have a chance of changing anything during the powertrain warranty period, which is the only time frame FCA cares about.

Also, someone mentioned Corvette having a complimentary oil change at 500 miles. I wouldn't be surprised if that was to try and get the owners in the habit of taking their vehicles to the dealership to spend more money.

Car manufacturers exist to make money, not cars.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

It's also nearly impossible to get a "true" synthetic oil in the US. It is very hard to find a pure Group 4 or Group 5 oil. Most "synthetic oils" sold in the US are group3 hydrocracked regular dino oil. Some Group 3 oils are better than Group 4 or 5 oils in some aspects. In Europe you can't sell a group 3 hydrocracked oil as a synthetic.

AFAIAC synthetic oil in the USA is a lie. Read the certs on the jug not the marketing and labels.

The whole Group 3 thing has been beaten to death, resurrected and beaten to death again over and over. Unless the NAD changes its 1999 ruling, or some other group such as the SAE or API comes out with some legally binding ruling then Group 3 is considered synthetic in the US. It's all there is. PAO based oils tend to be more expensive so the oil companies have to find a way to meet manufacturers requirements and provide a quality product at a price the average consumer is willing to pay.

And I agree with you on the certs, that's why I'm a little surprised to see so many Ram owners using Mobil 1 and Redline which do not carry the MS-6395 certification. Clearly, Mobil 1 far exceeds the requirements to meet MS-6395, but in the event of an engine issue under warranty and the owner shows the dealership a handful of receipts for M1 oil then they may have an out for warranty coverage. With the history of lifter and cam issues I'm not willing to take that chance. When it comes time to change out the ff I'm going with Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W-20 because of its low Noack and low viscosity index.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

With the long history of the 3.6 and 5.7 being relatively reliable, I'd be surprised if FCA spent the extra money for nice break-in oil. I don't think 99.9% of engine break-in procedures have a chance of changing anything during the powertrain warranty period, which is the only time frame FCA cares about.

Also, someone mentioned Corvette having a complimentary oil change at 500 miles. I wouldn't be surprised if that was to try and get the owners in the habit of taking their vehicles to the dealership to spend more money.

Car manufacturers exist to make money, not cars.

I agree for the most part, but I believe auto manufacturers would like to have a reputation for producing products that last longer than their warranty. Is it in their long term best interest to build something that falls apart right after the warranty ends? Most modern vehicles tend to hold up pretty well with a little bit of basic maintenance. This is my first Ram/Dodge product since a 2004 Chrysler Concorde but during my research I found numerous examples of folks with high mileage 1500s that use them hard for work, or towing campers and boats several times a year. If they had a reputation for just making it out of the warranty before self destructing would they have such a loyal fan base? I'm not trying to be argumentative but I do believe the manufacturers would like to have a good reputation.

And yes, I seriously doubt FCA uses some kind of special break in oil, if they even exist in the first place. It makes no sense for an oil company to make some special magical break in oil for the manufacturers and not offer it to the public and advertise that it has extra additives or special properties that are better than normal oil. And besides, there are limits to the amounts of some additives such as ZDDP that can be added to the oil and still maintain the current API SN rating. ZDDP is limited to a maximum of 800 ppm so any more would put the oil out of spec. Moly can be increased but more isn't always better.

 

[Nibis]

I changed mine today, at 1300 miles. I like to change early because of debris in the engine form manufacturing and break in, just what I like to do, makes me feel better.
I used Valvoline Synthetic Blend since it carries the MS-6395 certification. I'm really bummed that Mobile 1 does not carry it for their full synthetic. I used a Fram Ultra ( the only one they have that's worth using ) for this change because I like a Silicone anti drain valve, but I will be switching to a Wix XP on the next change, and switch to full synthetic, just not sure which brand I want to use since I have always used Mobile 1.

Now, the oil on the swaybar didn't bother me, but the oil pan bolt was pretty loose . There is no reason an oil filter should be that tight though , my oil filter wrench is crap and wouldn't do it, had to bust out the channel locks which put a hole in the filter and it started dripping on me. It wasn't too bad though, once I got it loose enough, I bagged it and didn't have too much to clean up.

 

[Aseras]

And yes, I seriously doubt FCA uses some kind of special break in oil, if they even exist in the first place. It makes no sense for an oil company to make some special magical break in oil for the manufacturers and not offer it to the public and advertise that it has extra additives or special properties that are better than normal oil. And besides, there are limits to the amounts of some additives such as ZDDP that can be added to the oil and still maintain the current API SN rating. ZDDP is limited to a maximum of 800 ppm so any more would put the oil out of spec. Moly can be increased but more isn't always better.

Ah but there's loopholes to SN and zddp levels. If its for "diesel" the levels can be MUCH higher. Same with certain special viscosities. Its all a mess you need an oil engineering degree to decipher. The manufacturers game the system to cheat emissions or regulations anywhere they can.

Theres plenty of special coatings to kick things out past warranty period ( gm Ferritic Nitro-Carburizing brake coatings for instance ). Its not to save you money its to save gm warranty work. Same things are being done to engine internals to the peril of the customer down the road.

Cars are not made for longevity anymore. They don't want them to last 20 or more years. They want turnover. Its planned obsolescence by technology to con purchasers.

 

[HoosierTrooper]

It can get confusing, I’ve spent years trying to get a grasp on it. Just to muddy the waters more the new ILSAC GF-6 and API SP standards took effect May 1. It will be interesting to see what the oil companies have done to meet them.

 

[Aseras]

Its all crap polishing furniture on the titanic. Electric is the way to go and all the oils maintenance, dealers and service can all die the death they deserve.

 

[Stevenc150]

...There is no reason an oil filter should be that tight though , my oil filter wrench is crap and wouldn't do it, had to bust out the channel locks which put a hole in the filter and it started dripping on me

THIS!!! ive had 3 new Rams in last 5 yrs...literally each one the 1st oil change, the OF is SUPER tight! Because of the OF location on this '20, i shoved a screwdriver thru it laterally to break it loose I'd love to meet the @ssh@ts that put these on

 

[Nukegm426]

A lot of vehicles have this issue with the first filter... not sure if it’s excess torque from the factory or something with breakin issues.

 

[Nibis]

THIS!!! ive had 3 new Rams in last 5 yrs...literally each one the 1st oil change, the OF is SUPER tight! Because of the OF location on this '20, i shoved a screwdriver thru it laterally to break it loose I'd love to meet the @ssh@ts that put these on

I've had to do the screw driver deal before. On my 2005 Arctic Cat, and just last summer on my moms new riding lawn mower.

I bet yours was pretty messy

 

[Stevenc150]

I've had to do the screw driver deal before. On my 2005 Arctic Cat, and just last summer on my moms new riding lawn mower.

I bet yours was pretty messy

It helped i had the OF & screwdriver "in" a gallon freezer bag, then shoved screwdriver thru, broke loose OF in bag, got screwdriverout of bag, then finished the OC. didnt spill much but had it allover me