You're introducing a complete redesign of one of your two " bread and butter " vehicles. At your disposal is an entire workforce of trained employees who have built this vehicle for years. You elect to leave them at your Warren Plant to continue building the outgoing model thus putting your reputation entirely in the hands of employees adept at building automobiles. Yes, you provided training for this transition but essentially what you now have is almost an entire workforce (save for the leaders/supervisors) doing OJT on a big money venture designed to overtake Chevrolet. Why could you not split your workforce equally between plants to sustain this transition? Have unions again become so powerful that the employees can refuse lateral assignments that benefit the entire product and sales. Seems we have forgotten what happened in the 50s and 60s when the Toyotas and Nissans began arriving on our shores because of our own selfish arrogance. Can you imagine pulling up the monthly FCA sales chart and seeing that you were outsold by the Nissan Titan! My thoughts on their thoughts.
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What was FCAs school of thought?
- Thread starter FLG8R
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I mean, I absolutely understand the frustration that many of this forum have, my original order was on 5/21 (with ramboxes) and then I was too excited to shell out 60k to FCA for this truck that I went and bought one on the lot. My only comment is, I really doubt FCA was in anyway intentionally hoping for anything other than rainbows and roses for this truck, but you pointed out some good decisions they had to pro/con to develop a game plan. I guess my view would be, this business is obviously much more complicated than the average consumer can comprehend (myself included!). Let's say GM rolls out their new truck PERFECTLY...well they still rolled out an egg. I promise im not a FCA fanboy, I honestly would say I lean towards Ford. Just trying to support an incredible product and be the voice of a happy customer. Not trying to be offensive or dismissive. Cheers!
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Have no idea what they are thinking, but one of many disappointed GM/Chevy owners, I can tell you the Ram is a new and exciting Truck, that in my opinion beats everything out there. I drove 2 Ford Platinums, very nice, with the 3.5 but it fell short of the Limited over all drive. Taking GM can be done. Changing the front end and adding a couple storage pockets left most of us very underwhelmed. When the 19 Ram starts showing up on the road, in driveways and employee parking lots, it will change the game. Maybe the management has to up their game, but maybe their plan is coming together.
firecadet613
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It's all about factory utilization. For a change this massive, you either shut down production while you change up the factory or you use a different plant. By opening up this factory a year or two ago, they paved the way for the 2019s to be sold alongside the 2018s. Genius, if you ask me. When Ford went to the aluminum bodies - they shut down all F150 production for a few months in both Dearborn and Kansas City.. Sure, FCA isn't getting the production volumes that they are looking for right now, but from all the new RAMs I've seen and driven, the quality is top notch.
RBRK
Well-Known Member
I have ordered an 03’ 2500 Mexico built at that time then a 09’ 11’ 13’ and now 19’. This truck is the best built of all as far as no paint issues, door and body gaps good, no misfit panels scratches etc interior or exterior.
I’m very happy with the production of my truck, but I did see a few panels and minor paint issues on a few at the lots while I was waiting. Nothing major though. I’m as picky as you can be and I’m impressed.
I know technology has changed and a lot is done by robotics etc , but I always found flaws in my previous trucks. I’m loving the 19’ so far, a lot nicer in every way over gen 4.
I’m very happy with the production of my truck, but I did see a few panels and minor paint issues on a few at the lots while I was waiting. Nothing major though. I’m as picky as you can be and I’m impressed.
I know technology has changed and a lot is done by robotics etc , but I always found flaws in my previous trucks. I’m loving the 19’ so far, a lot nicer in every way over gen 4.
Rustydodge
Well-Known Member
All companies/factories these days set up assembly processes so that a completely unknowledgeable, low skilled worker can step in and perform any task. That's the reality. The days of having a specialized skill on the factory floor are over. Can't afford to rely on a team member's knowledge or ability because if he's out sick you still need to produce product. I garantee that if you walked into FCA SHAP facility, you could perform any task. Your onboarding for safety or HR training would take days but your training for the actual work would take 15 minutes.
Full disclosure, I've never been in an automotive assembly plant, but i'd have a hard time believing that wasn't the case.
Full disclosure, I've never been in an automotive assembly plant, but i'd have a hard time believing that wasn't the case.
Full disclosure..I've been in to a couple of assembly plants, and engine plants, and most are like that...of course it fully depends on engineering team correctly documenting what the requirements for each step are and they put as many mistake proofing things as possible in the assembly line, but it doesn't catch everything...as evidence as people missing magnets in their door locks, misaligned bumpers, etc. on their new Ram like I've read on the forums.
firecadet613
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Missing magnets? On the '19s?
Ya. From another forum you are also on. I'll copy the text below as I'm not sure if we are supposed to link to other forums
"I came back to Ram nation last Tuesday in a 2019 Ram 1500 Limited Kentucky Derby edition. My issue, however, is that the driver side door will not unlock with passive entry. The passenger side does but not the driver side. And the lock button doesnt work either. I'm taking it today to the dealer for some paint corrections and they'll be looking at the drive side door issue too. But was wondering if anyone else has had this issue. "
Update: "Well I got a call from the dealer yesterday after dropping the truck off and it seems like they missed installing a magnet in the doorhandle at the factory level. Having that ordered and they will get it today and see if that fixes it."
Reminds me of my 2004 Grand Cherokee....I finally decided to tow with it a 50,000 miles...couldn't get one of the trailer turn signals to work. Finally after two days at the dealer, they called me and said..Found the issue..we'll still cover it under warranty (even though it was beyond 36,000 miles)....the factory forgot to run one of the wires to the plug in the back on the OEM setup.
If you want to see a production challenge, look at 2015 F150. Not only did they have to re tool two plants to produce the new truck, they had to make major modifications and upgrades to mass produce aluminum. They also had to upgrade and train all of the dealerships. Then, they had to create an all new infrastructure in the aluminum industry to support producing the best selling vehicle in the US out of an all new material. And yes, there was some bumps but their transition should be looked at as the gold standard in production. They never missed a beat. I had to write a paper on it. Impressive. FCA cant get a belt driven electric motor add on right.
firecadet613
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Very true - that paper sounds like an interesting read!
Ford did kill it. Let's see the paper!
I'd love to post it. I was taking a class on deployment. I've since lost the paper. Oh well. Interesting stuff though. If people really read about the hurdles, advancements and accomplishments of that wild idea they would be floored. Another amazing story in the automotive world is the GM Smallblock. Amazing it's still around. I have also read about the 5.7 hemi and while it is a good engine, it's heads/combustion chamber is nothing like the original "hemi". More branding than anything. For Dodge fans, the evolution of the Vioer V10 is pretty cool. From truck motor to supercar.
Rustydodge
Well-Known Member
Not Ford bashing, but they also didn't start production of the 2015s until November of 2014. Ram came in way early here for a 2019 model. People would have complained about having to wait till winter or early calendar year 2019 . Instead they're complaining about not having everything offered by summer of 2018. I'm glad FCA didn't hold up on getting 2019s on the road.
There are always two schools of thought on this. I can see both sides, but either way a company has to be ready to deal with the backlash for their decision.
1) Does a company rush things to market to be "first" or beat a competitor to gain sales / market share. Beneficially they can get increased sales. On the flips slide, they can rush production which can lead to incomplete designs, quality issues by ramping production too quickly, etc
2) Not releasing a product until all design and production verification testing is completed, etc. - Ideally this helps with the ensuring the design meets whatever specification was created and quality / production issues get worked out during a slow ramp up (not all get caught obviously). Downside is you can miss / reduce the window of opportunity to take sales from your competitor before they counteract with changes of their own (ie. the 2019 Silverado)
In this case, I think RAM had a line in the sand around the April time frame and wasn't willing to push the launch out a few months to "work out the kinks", and its showing in the hiccups / issues they are having.
As a customer, I can understand the hiccups...what really irritates me is the lack of communication.
FCA had about a decade to make their next gen truck. Seriously, they did. 4th gen while a good truck, has been here for almost 10 years. The 5th gen has been postponed a few time because of FCA's financial issues (from what I've read). This truck shouldve been ready to go upon launch. Especially the segment exclusive features. BTW, cant wait for my RAM........
Rustydodge
Well-Known Member
What are these widespread issues? I've heard isolated instances of glitchy 12" screen (even older 8.4 systems require updates from time to time), water through antenna/3rd brake light (every manufacture has this), funny sound from noice cancelling system, now the magnet missing in door (edit: brake noise). Non of these are huge, widespread problems, and not every truck is leaving with these issues. There are many more "happy" trucks on the road. 2015 F150 launch wasnt without minor hiccups either (misaligned cab corners comes to mind). One exception or goof I'll add was the tow mirrors deleting 360 camera.
IMO they have done a "slow ramp up" with holding back 3.6/5.7 w/ e-torque and rambox and rebel and reg cab. And they stated summer or "later" release for these items from the get-go. Per pickuptrucks.com they won't be getting an etorque to test until August. I do think they opened up ordering of the etorque too early but you guys only have yourselves to blame for pushing dealers to push FCA to open up ordering. They just did what they were being asked to do, which is their fault if they gave in too early.. If EPA is in fact holding up etorque to perform internal verification then FCA's hands are tied by that timeline also.
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Rustydodge
Well-Known Member
its been closer to 5 years since the last signification refresh. New interiors and new trans and air suspension made this a whole new truck in 2013-14. Also added new specialized trims (rebel for instance). Those of us that have followed dodge and ram trucks over the years know when impactful improvements have been made and also don't see the longer time frame between changes as a bad thing necessarily. Ford's short trimeframes between refreshes and redesigns and new or revamped engines is impressive but costly and adds complexity. They also have to because they're desperately trying to keep #1 selling claims.
How about Ramboxes...opened up 5/2...any deliveries....any actually in production....?
Once again, I understand hiccups and staged roll outs....I don't necessarily understand 47 days in D with no feedback after multiple inquires when you are quote 6-8 week deliveries.
Rustydodge
Well-Known Member
Rambox was also "late availability" from the start. I do feel for you guys having to wait for your new truck and i won't make any excuses for poor communication or lies for why it is taking so long. No question it hasn't been a perfect launch with supplier issues, production behind plan, rumors of delayed EPA certification. But IMO it's not the sky-is-falling scenario or picture some people are trying to paint.
