Valvetrain Noise after Cam and Lifter Replacement

[Wolfgang2001]

I'm not one to typically post on forums, unless I am in dire need of some help.

I've got a 2019 1500 5.7 non e-torque that I just completed replacing the cam and lifters, along with new pushrods, associated gaskets, hellcat oil pump, plugs and coil packs, and BD Diesel manifolds. I used all OEM parts with the exception of the exhaust manifolds and all the gaskets in which I used Mahle parts.

When replacing the old cam I took note that there was no severe wear on it, however two of the old lifters did have some play in it. I finished everything yesterday afternoon, primed the oil, started it. It is slow to start and this may be due to the battery being low as the truck has been sitting for 3 months, haven't checked voltage, and I am having a pretty loud valvetrain noise coming from the passenger side. From what I have read it could be a pushrod not properly seated, or it could be bad lifters. I took the truck on a test drive to see if it was possible just needing a break in, the noise was still there after about a 10 mile test drive so I parked it and haven't started it since. I am using Royal Purple 5W-30 full synthetic with no additional additives. There is a CEL, however I haven't ran the codes yet, this maybe pre-existing codes from before the re-build due to the previous misfiring. It should also be noted that the truck is running very smoothly and seems to not be misfiring.

Also another note is, that even with the Hellcat oil pump I am still averaging around 23-28 psi of oil pressure while idling, I'm not sure if this is normal or not, but during light footed driving (below 3000 RPM) it will get into the 60-70 range.

When putting everything back in I know for a fact the engine is in timing, however I can not recall to save my life if the engine was at TDC when I installed the pushrods, this is a concern of mine, however I am hoping that it is just a pushrod not properly seated. Does anyone have any suggestions that this could be otherwise and what my course of action should be from this point on. Should I pull the valve cover and check the rods? If so what am I primarily looking for? Also does anyone have any suggestions to put the engine at TDC without pulling the timing cover or heads. I am thinking pulling the a spark plug from cylinder #1 and sticking a long rod down in and rotating the crank until that rod is at the longest point.

Anything helps, because I am at a loss right now, spent a total of 5 days doing the work just for it to still have issues. I will try to get videos of the sound later this evening. But for right now I don't know what to do next.

 

[Snekpete]

The oil pressure is normal. TDC can be found by removing the spark plugs and rotating until air is compressed out of a cylinder, then measuring as you described. It is hard to get a precise measurement this way, however, but there should be timing marks on the vibration dampener, at least for cylinder number one. But it really isn't necessary to set TDC on each cylinder to install the push rods. If the rod is activating the valve and the motor is running smoothly, the rod is almost surely seated properly.

If it were my problem, I would first verify that this is not an exhaust leak or an exhaust noise of some type. A car stethoscope or a cardboard tube can be useful for checking this. My favorite way to check for an exhaust leak on a modern motor is to cold star it on one calm morning and use my nose. Even a small leak can be detected by the strong smell of uncatted exhaust.

If that is not the problem then I would pull the passenger side valve cover, have someone start the engine and locate the noisy cylinder. I would then replace the pushrod and lifter.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

The oil pressure is normal. TDC can be found by removing the spark plugs and rotating until air is compressed out of a cylinder, then measuring as you described. It is hard to get a precise measurement this way, however, but there should be timing marks on the vibration dampener, at least for cylinder number one. But it really isn't necessary to set TDC on each cylinder to install the push rods. If the rod is activating the valve and the motor is running smoothly, the rod is almost surely seated properly.

If it were my problem, I would first verify that this is not an exhaust leak or an exhaust noise of some type. A car stethoscope or a cardboard tube can be useful for checking this. My favorite way to check for an exhaust leak on a modern motor is to cold star it on one calm morning and use my nose. Even a small leak can be detected by the strong smell of uncatted exhaust.

If that is not the problem then I would pull the passenger side valve cover, have someone start the engine and locate the noisy cylinder. I would then replace the pushrod and lifter.

Appreciate the reply,

I will definitely give the exhaust a look over once more, I will say that I am leaning more towards it being internal to the engine mainly due to me replacing the manifolds, gaskets, and hardware, as well as torquing to BD Diesel's specifications. With that being said though, anything could happen.

When installing the push rods, how much play is normal? All rocker arms were seated on the valves and I audible heard all push rods click in, but when I torqued the rocker arms down the pushrods still had slight play in them. Is this normal?

 

[Snekpete]

Appreciate the reply,

I will definitely give the exhaust a look over once more, I will say that I am leaning more towards it being internal to the engine mainly due to me replacing the manifolds, gaskets, and hardware, as well as torquing to BD Diesel's specifications. With that being said though, anything could happen.

When installing the push rods, how much play is normal? All rocker arms were seated on the valves and I audible heard all push rods click in, but when I torqued the rocker arms down the pushrods still had slight play in them. Is this normal?

Yes, the rods will be loose until the lifters are pumped with oil. Even after that the rods should be able to be rotated on valves that are not being opened, check for a bent rod while doing this. I doubt that the problem is an unseated rod, there would just be too many other problems associated with that. A little late now but when you had all of the new parts lay them out, side by side, and compare for uniformity. Just because a part is new DOES NOT mean that it is good, working or even the right part. I am, fortunately or not, depending upon your point of view, much more familiar with Lycoming motors than Hemis.

Last week I watched a helicopter self-destruct, on the ground. It had just been overhauled and a brand new blade dampener failed. It was either a bad part or installed improperly.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

Yes, the rods will be loose until the lifters are pumped with oil. Even after that the rods should be able to be rotated on valves that are not being opened, check for a bent rod while doing this. I doubt that the problem is an unseated rod, there would just be too many other problems associated with that. A little late now but when you had all of the new parts lay them out, side by side, and compare for uniformity. Just because a part is new DOES NOT mean that it is good, working or even the right part. I am, fortunately or not, depending upon your point of view, much more familiar with Lycoming motors than Hemis.

Last week I watched a helicopter self-destruct, on the ground. It had just been overhauled and a brand new blade dampener failed. It was either a bad part or installed improperly.

I did end up comparing all parts side by side, however I just visually inspected them and did not take any measurements. Basically all of the new parts were identical to the original with the exception of the two lifter and cam which had some wear on them respectfully.

This noise has got me at a dead-end, no symptoms of being out of time, no misfires, no loss of power, but yet sounds valvetrain related. Even if it was related to the pushrods you would think that would cause some type of misfire. I'm just crossing my fingers that if it were a defective part it isn't the lifters again. Could it be entirely possible that the new components need to just be broken in? It definitely makes me nervous given that the noise didn't resolve itself after a few minutes. Don't want to get 100-200 miles down the road and completely destroy it to the point of no return.

Going into this I wasn't thinking much of it given that I have pretty extensive experience on BMW and GM engines, however these Hemis are different to say the least.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

Valve cover off with start cycle. You can hear it slightly once it tries to start

 

[Wolfgang2001]

I noticed no oil coming from the rocker arms, loosened the 4 corner bolts and no I have oil coming from them, could this possible be a torque issue, I can’t remember the torque spec I used but it was from summit racing.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

So got everything back together, retorqued the bolts to 185 in ibs and the noise is about 10x quieter but not eliminated. Videos to follow.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

After re torqued, not at operating temp

 

[Wolfgang2001]

At operating temp side and below

 

[Wolfgang2001]

Operating temp engine bay

 

[Snekpete]

Very interesting for me. I recorded my truck using an Android phone. When I play the mp4 back on my computer the sound is a very light ticking, just like it is in person. When I uploaded the file to my GoDaddy account and play it from MS Eclipse it sounds louder, but not as loud as your recording. You've definitely got a problem, either valve train or exhaust.

Normal Lifter Sounds

 

[Wolfgang2001]

Very interesting for me. I recorded my truck using an Android phone. When I play the mp4 back on my computer the sound is a very light ticking, just like it is in person. When I uploaded the file to my GoDaddy account and play it from MS Eclipse it sounds EXACTLY like your recording.

Normal Lifter Sounds

Not able to watch it right now, but I will take a look when I get back home. I on a 200 mile trip in the truck right now. The tick is audible in the cabin. Since starting the trip it now has a very slight shudder at idle. But otherwise it has been very smooth, no loss of power, all temps and oil pressure perfect. No noticeable loss in MPG. This noise just has me lost and the video definitely doesn’t do justice with the audio. Prior to the lifters failing it was a extremely quiet, the only noise that you would here was the fan and the fuel injectors.

 

[Jmac509]

Following to see how this turns out. I'm also curious.

 

[1791]

just curious did you soak the lifters in oil before assembly? they should sit in a submerged in oil, air bubbles will come out as the air is replaced with oil.
IMO that would have been the perfect time to do a mds delete.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

Alright so here’s an update. Following pulling the rocker arm shafts once more. And referencing a Star case that covered a “valve train ticking noise” I have found that the retaining clips on the rocker arm bolts to be bent, and destroyed on both intake and exhaust rocker arm shafts. Please look at the images below.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

just curious did you soak the lifters in oil before assembly? they should sit in a submerged in oil, air bubbles will come out as the air is replaced with oil.
IMO that would have been the perfect time to do a mds delete.

So while I did not soak them in oil, I was informed by the dealer that they come pre-soaked and this was evident by oil in the bag. When installing I applied a generous amount of red line assembly lube to ensure minimum friction on initial start. Also before the first start, I went through 2 full start cycles to ensure oiling of the upper end of the engine.

Yesterday morning I pulled the valve cover and discovered that there was poor oiling to the rocker arms and valves. I loosened the rocker arm shaft bolts then retorqued to 185 in-Ibs and this alleviated the issue and brought the ticking sound down significantly but did not eliminate it entirely. After doing this and viewing the valve train while going through a start cycle oiling was evident and squirting from the rocker arms as it should.

Fast forward to today and now we are back to where we were. No oiling in the valve train while going to a start cycle, loosened the bolts and still nothing. Needless to say I’m not too sure what could be preventing the oil from getting through the rocker shafts but it maybe a good place to start with the bolts seeing as the 5.7 oiling system does go through these.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

This is the Star case I am referencing.

 

[Wolfgang2001]

Very interesting for me. I recorded my truck using an Android phone. When I play the mp4 back on my computer the sound is a very light ticking, just like it is in person. When I uploaded the file to my GoDaddy account and play it from MS Eclipse it sounds louder, but not as loud as your recording. You've definitely got a problem, either valve train or exhaust.

Normal Lifter Sounds

Finally went back and watched your video. This is what my truck sounded like prior to the lifter and cam failure and I would personally consider that normal. However the videos I have uploaded don’t quite do a good job and showing how significantly louder this ticking is compared to yours. I’ve gone through and used a stethoscope on it and the loudest the sound is, is directly on the cylinder head and valve cover directly above cylinder #2. This would coincide with the cylinder #2 misfire at idle began experiencing after the break-in trip.

 

[1791]

did you replace the med solenoid's? that would not cause you issue just asking.