Tuning a BDS 6-inch Fox 2.5 coil-over suspension to 5.25 inches

[Desert Dawg]

Okay, this may seem like a weird thing to do but going to ask the suspension gurus here for their input. Sorry for the long thread!

First, I am currently running a 2020 Ram Rebel 4x4 crew cab with only 6600 miles on the odometer. It is currently setup with the Fabtech 3-inch UCA lift with Dirt Logic 2.5 coilovers up front and Dirt Logic 2.0 shocks in the rear married with a coil spring spacer to complete the 3-inch lift. I netted a tad over 3 inches of lift over the Rebel stock ride height which includes the new Yokohoma Geolander M/T G003 LT295/70R18 tires (34.4 inches tall). Accounting for the change in tire size over the stock LT275.70R18 Duratracs, the system actually netted ~2.75 inches of front lift (after some settling) and I am maintaining about 1/4-inch rear to front rake with the topper installed on the truck bed. The CV angles and front geometry are not too extreme but could be better along with the alignment.

My recent off-road escapade over Engineer Pass highlighted some of the limitations of my current build, at least for slow speed rock crawling trails, as I bottomed out a couple of times causing some minor damage. A recent romp on a desert romp also highlighted my limitations on approach angles that also caused some minor damage. Both recent incidents has me considering the need for a tad more lift and/or a better performing suspension.

Now considering the BDS 6-inch with FOX 2.5 Factory Series remote reservoir coilovers with DSC and Fox 2.0 rear shocks with 5" ProRide coil springs (there are no lift spacers used and I definitely get all the clearance I need along with significantly enhanced off-road performance and very smooth highway ride...but, it's 6-inches of lift)!

In talking with BDS, the Tech stated that I might be able to decrease the preload on the front Fox coilovers down to around 5-5.25 inches of actual lift. However, he stated that BDS has never tested the system with that kind of adjustment and therefore cannot comment on any effects on performance (probably knows but restricted from saying due to liability reasons). If I can reduce the front by about 3/4-inch, I could clear my garage and lower the increased center of gravity a tad more too (although still high). But having the added clearance and significant off-road performance, along with improving the stance some more with slightly more negative offset wheels/tires is tempting.

Has anyone actually done something like this? If so, any negative effects on handling, ride comfort, etc.?

Also, has anyone actually taken the BDS 6-inch Fox coilover system off-road (and I don't mean dirt roads...lol)? If so, how did it perform? Also, any feedback on highway handling, etc.?

Thanks for any constructive input.

Edit: Simplified post.​

 

[jedgar81]

I am new to the forum so please take my opinion as nothing more than someones opinion, but here are my thoughts. I come from the Jeep world where I had a JKUR with 37's and lots of goodies and did a fair amount of rock crawling and general off-roading. I also have an ORP truck and not a Rebel so I'll comment more generally.

In my opinion drop bracket lifts are not a great choice as you end up with parts hanging so low anyways, unless you do a major tire jump you don't gain all that much overall clearance. The 6" kit that uses the stock coils is a non-starter in my opinion as the factory suspension, while great on the road is a bit of a mess off-road. Dropping even a small ledge makes it blow through its stroke and overall it feels heavy and wallowy. I can't imagine having that same suspension on a 6" lifted truck. The full BDS kit is more interesting with the FOX 2.5s but 6" is a BIG lift and center of gravity is very important as you know!

The lift you have is high quality components and seems like the thing to stick with in my opinion. With good aftermarket suspension I feel the biggest negative to these trucks is approach, break over, and departure angles. I think the the Rebel looks amazing with the factory bumpers for sure, but a high clearance front bumper would improve the approach angle almost as much as a bigger lift. With a transmission skid plate I am comfortable dragging my belly some to have the low COG and way better on road handling and fuel economy.

For what it is worth my plan for my truck is to install the FOX DSC Coilovers (showing up tomorrow) and then make a higher clearance rear bumper and relocate the tail pipes so I can drag the rear when needed. I (think) that will make it handle easy to moderate trails (like most of the popular stuff in the San Juans), and some easier Moab trails like Hells Revenge, 7 Mile Rim etc. I may be mistaken but hopefully not.

Again take my opinion with a grain of salt, and your build is one of my favorites and I am stoked to see what you do next with it!

 

[SKT Customs]

So just a heads up, the front lift won’t affect you fitting in your garage at all! It’s the rear lift. So no matter what you do to the front, you’ll need to go lower in the rear than 5” if you’re trying to fit in a tight space. That being said, I feel like that would probably be fine to take some preload out of the front Coilovers and lower them. Probably one of the reasons they’re not sure is because if you’re taking out that much preload you miiight need a softer spring rate. Especially since BDS’s 6 inch kits are typically 6.5-6.75” (at least the standard coil ones are). I personally think if you lower them to around 5”, the rear 5” kit will look goofy, not to mention you won’t fit in your garage (I’m assuming based on what you said). However I think if you set them to 5” and did the 3” coils in the rear it would look perfect and give you the garage clearance you need! That would put you almost dead level too!

 

[Desert Dawg]

So just a heads up, the front lift won’t affect you fitting in your garage at all! It’s the rear lift. So no matter what you do to the front, you’ll need to go lower in the rear than 5” if you’re trying to fit in a tight space. That being said, I feel like that would probably be fine to take some preload out of the front Coilovers and lower them. Probably one of the reasons they’re not sure is because if you’re taking out that much preload you miiight need a softer spring rate. Especially since BDS’s 6 inch kits are typically 6.5-6.75” (at least the standard coil ones are). I personally think if you lower them to around 5”, the rear 5” kit will look goofy, not to mention you won’t fit in your garage (I’m assuming based on what you said). However I think if you set them to 5” and did the 3” coils in the rear it would look perfect and give you the garage clearance you need! That would put you almost dead level too!

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

I agree with you especially when considering a stock truck with a built in and significant rake. However, with mine already lifted with an almost level stance, the issue is now the front cab with the GPS shock fin at rear of the cab that sticks up another ~2.5 inches higher than the rear topper height. Right now, with the Rebel is sitting right at 3-inches of additional leveled ride height, I am showing (below) about 2.5 inches of remaining clear space from top of the shark fin to the weather strip seam of my 83.5 inch garage door opening.

​

If it wasn't for that, I would have plenty of room as the rear of the truck still clears with almost 4.75 inches to spare (below) with the measurement taken at apex of the topper roof rack tracks).

​

So without the antenna, I could go 6-inches (3-inches higher in the front than I have now with the current lift) and clear the rear easily assuming the BDS 6-inch system is very close to level as stated on the BDS site.

I also think you make a great point about the front spring rates; BDS states that the kit comes with Eibach coil springs but no mention of the spring rate, so I need to follow up on that. Also, I plan on installing a front winch so that will also contribute some as well (helps settle the front a tad more).

So with the 2" spacer coil spring now in the rear that, with the factory spring, I have an almost level stance (front to rear) with the front almost at ~2.75 inches of front lift after settling (leaving ~1.4 inch rake). Assuming the BDS system nets very close to 6-inches of front lift, I think I would need to dial down the front Fox 2.5 coilovers (6"-2.75"-2.5" = 0.75 inches of downward adjustment) so the actual front coilover setting would be set at 6"-.75" = 5.25" to clear. Assuming the rear 5" ProRide coils actually provide an almost level stance as stated on the BDS site assuming the 6" of initial front lift, then I think I would about 3/4" of rake from rear to front (and maybe slightly more once the front winch is installed) after adjusting the coilovers. Now, if the lift is actually closer to 6.5-6.75 inches of lift like you stated (at least for the base system), then this all goes out the window because it looks like the 6" coilover system and 6z" base system utilize the same rear lift setup. Or maybe I am missing something which wouldn't surprise me at all.

So getting additional real world input is really great as I had not read that the system actually nets a higher than advertised height! Also, I am concerned that by dropping the front 3/4-inches (or maybe more), I might mess with the extended length sway bar links that correct operating angle for 6-inches of front lift as well as hitting the bump stop extensions sooner and further limit the up travel.

Thanks again for the input!

 

[Desert Dawg]

I am new to the forum so please take my opinion as nothing more than someones opinion, but here are my thoughts. I come from the Jeep world where I had a JKUR with 37's and lots of goodies and did a fair amount of rock crawling and general off-roading. I also have an ORP truck and not a Rebel so I'll comment more generally.

In my opinion drop bracket lifts are not a great choice as you end up with parts hanging so low anyways, unless you do a major tire jump you don't gain all that much overall clearance. The 6" kit that uses the stock coils is a non-starter in my opinion as the factory suspension, while great on the road is a bit of a mess off-road. Dropping even a small ledge makes it blow through its stroke and overall it feels heavy and wallowy. I can't imagine having that same suspension on a 6" lifted truck. The full BDS kit is more interesting with the FOX 2.5s but 6" is a BIG lift and center of gravity is very important as you know!

The lift you have is high quality components and seems like the thing to stick with in my opinion. With good aftermarket suspension I feel the biggest negative to these trucks is approach, break over, and departure angles. I think the the Rebel looks amazing with the factory bumpers for sure, but a high clearance front bumper would improve the approach angle almost as much as a bigger lift. With a transmission skid plate I am comfortable dragging my belly some to have the low COG and way better on road handling and fuel economy.

For what it is worth my plan for my truck is to install the FOX DSC Coilovers (showing up tomorrow) and then make a higher clearance rear bumper and relocate the tail pipes so I can drag the rear when needed. I (think) that will make it handle easy to moderate trails (like most of the popular stuff in the San Juans), and some easier Moab trails like Hells Revenge, 7 Mile Rim etc. I may be mistaken but hopefully not.

Again take my opinion with a grain of salt, and your build is one of my favorites and I am stoked to see what you do next with it!

Thanks; I do agree with everything you said which is why the base 6-inch system was a non-starter for me too. I also have had my fair share of off-roading with Jeeps and many other vehicles (Broncos, Land Rovers, and countless full-sized trucks and SUVs of various makes) but sounds like your Jeep build was pretty extensive and probably took that beast out to places I could only dream about...lol.

The BDS 6-inch with the Fox 2.5 coilovers with DSC is what caught my interest. But the 6-inch ride height (or ~5 inch ride height if adjusted down some) does concern me. I have wheeled full-sized trucks with 4-inches of lift in the past with no real issues but still had to be present about the significant increase in the center of gravity (so potentially an issue if get sideways on a steep sand dune). I only had one 6-inch lift in my life (ironically, another Ram) that I only wheeled over slow forest trails which was great for getting over downed trees but never took it out on desert runs or rocky boulder trails (which I am sure would have not have done so well considering the system used barely upgraded shocks and springs over the factory).

The approach and break over angle is a concern as I experienced with even a 3-inch lift over factory. I do like your thoughts of making your own bumper; if only I had those skills and tools needed...lol. I have gone with aftermarket bumpers in the past to obtain better approach angles; I had an ADD Stealth on one of F150 builds as well as an ICI Magnum on my Tundra build and both provided significant improvement in front approach angles as well as really enhancing the looks. I actually thought of the same thing as yourself using a Fox 2.5 upgrade (so getting slightly lower lift over my current setup but better overall performance) married with a new winch bumper. My problem is I also like a more aggressive stance along with a bit more clearance (by being able to install true 35-37 inch tires) that matches up with the enhanced performance so a higher lift has been appealing. But my gut keeps telling not to go with a 6-inch lift even with the great Fox DSC system as it really is quite high; and as @Mclovinnnnn pointed out, the lift may be even higher (at least the rear) so that would be a non-starter again.

Thanks for the input as it's always good to hear varying opinions and thoughts as I really do want to dial this in for good (after changing out my suspension twice already...lol). What I need/want would be a Fox or King setup with diff drop, extended brake lines, quality UCAs, and other components needed to properly align the geometry with 3.5-inches of lift. But so far there are no offerings for the current Ram like that (without spending ~$10K for a custom made long-arm system).

My last thought is maybe replace my current Dirt Logic 2.5 coilovers with Dirt Logic 2.5 remotes which would really increase my off-road performance since I already have the Fabtech UCAs and rear shocks/spacer. However, the Fabtech 3-inch system uses a coil spring rear spacer so maybe replace that setup with longer rear springs. Then add the winch bumper and call it good. If so, I could maintain ~3-inch front and rear lift.

If I did that, I would spend about $2500 for the Dirt Logic 2.5 remotes/replacement rear springs vs. $3500 for the Fox 2.5 system with lower lift height, and use the $1K difference on the $2700 front bumper. Either one would also be cheaper than the +$4K for the BDS system and a lot cheaper than the ~$5K Carli 2.5-inch system (but totally top-tier) without even considering the bumper yet.

 

[SKT Customs]

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

I agree with you especially when considering a stock truck with a built in and significant rake. However, with mine already lifted with an almost level stance, the issue is now the front cab with the GPS shock fin at rear of the cab that sticks up another ~2.5 inches higher than the rear topper height. Right now, with the Rebel is sitting right at 3-inches of additional leveled ride height, I am showing (below) about 2.5 inches of remaining clear space from top of the shark fin to the weather strip seam of my 83.5 inch garage door opening.

​

If it wasn't for that, I would have plenty of room as the rear of the truck still clears with almost 4.75 inches to spare (below) with the measurement taken at apex of the topper roof rack tracks).

​

So without the antenna, I could go 6-inches (3-inches higher in the front than I have now with the current lift) and clear the rear easily assuming the BDS 6-inch system is very close to level as stated on the BDS site.

I also think you make a great point about the front spring rates; BDS states that the kit comes with Eibach coil springs but no mention of the spring rate, so I need to follow up on that. Also, I plan on installing a front winch so that will also contribute some as well (helps settle the front a tad more).

So with the 2" spacer coil spring now in the rear that, with the factory spring, I have an almost level stance (front to rear) with the front almost at ~2.75 inches of front lift after settling (leaving ~1.4 inch rake). Assuming the BDS system nets very close to 6-inches of front lift, I think I would need to dial down the front Fox 2.5 coilovers (6"-2.75"-2.5" = 0.75 inches of downward adjustment) so the actual front coilover setting would be set at 6"-.75" = 5.25" to clear. Assuming the rear 5" ProRide coils actually provide an almost level stance as stated on the BDS site assuming the 6" of initial front lift, then I think I would about 3/4" of rake from rear to front (and maybe slightly more once the front winch is installed) after adjusting the coilovers. Now, if the lift is actually closer to 6.5-6.75 inches of lift like you stated (at least for the base system), then this all goes out the window because it looks like the 6" coilover system and 6z" base system utilize the same rear lift setup. Or maybe I am missing something which wouldn't surprise me at all.

So getting additional real world input is really great as I had not read that the system actually nets a higher than advertised height! Also, I am concerned that by dropping the front 3/4-inches (or maybe more), I might mess with the extended length sway bar links that correct operating angle for 6-inches of front lift as well as hitting the bump stop extensions sooner and further limit the up travel.

Thanks again for the input!

Hey man yeah I’m happy to (try) to help! So why I say that the rear lift is your limiting factor is because of that shark fin antenna. The front of your truck has plenty of room, it’s the antenna that screws you. My truck is currently 2 7/8” taller in the front and the shark fin is still my limiting factor. With a 2” spacer in the rear of the truck and 37” tires my antenna measures exactly 83.5”. So I’m very surprised that your truck with rebel coils & a 2” spacer (should be a 3” lift) on 34” tires isn’t closer to that garage door!
As far as worrying about the suspension geometry, you’ll be absolutely fine lowering the coilovers. The 4” and 6” BDS systems are identical in the front, the only difference is the size of the spacer or coilover. To be honest, I have the 4” one and I just recently turned it into a 6” and I can say for certain that the kit definitely looks like it was designed more for a 4” kit than 6”. At 4” all the geometry is dead perfect. At 6”, you start getting slight angles but nothing bad. So anywhere from 4-7” will be fine on that kit!