Towing

[Wardogsusn]

I have the 2019 ram 1500 4x4 5.7 hemi with tow the package. So the question is about towing a 5th wheel RV, dry weight of the one found is 10k. So could I and should I before I start buying and mounting hardware.

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[Sascwatch]

10k is to big for these half ton trucks, what is your payload? The tongue weight of that trailer will be 1000-1500lbs. Most well equipped trucks are sub 1500 payload meaning a trailer that big is out of the question.

6500-7000lbs is about as big as I’d recommend with a half ton, add in your family and a bit of gear and you’ll still be pushing payload limits.

 

[Jeffjad]

I have the 2019 ram 1500 4x4 5.7 hemi with tow the package. So the question is about towing a 5th wheel RV, dry weight of the one found is 10k. So could I and should I before I start buying and mounting hardware.

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[IvoryHemi]

10k dry will be 1,500-2,000 lb pin weight...or more. You will absolutely need a 2500/3500 for that fiver

 

[Wardogsusn]

Ty you all for the fast replies better knowing and safe than destroying out of ignorance.

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[Trooper4]

Have you pulled a fiver before, and how much?

 

[Wardogsusn]

I pull this every day at work with a 18 stall dog trailer and have pulled various things while in the military. So no not an actual 5th wheel.

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[ManBearPigNJ]

The tongue weight of that trailer will be 1000-1500lbs. Most well equipped trucks are sub 1500 payload meaning a trailer that big is out of the question.

6500-7000lbs is about as big as I’d recommend with a half ton, add in your family and a bit of gear and you’ll still be pushing payload limits.

Thank you for confirming this. Obviously the materials from RAM say to add tongue weight when calculating gross vehicle weight but there are plenty of sites that state things like , e.g. with a 1,000 payload and 10,000 tow rating, you can carry 1,000lbs of stuff and tow 9,000lbs which, assuming 10-15% tongue weight, is nearly 1,000lbs over the GVWR.

 

[brian42]

5er pin weight is going to be pushing closer to 20%. If the trailer is 10K lbs dry then you're looking at over 2K lbs on the pin loaded. I don't know what the payload is for a bare-bones, stripped down 2wd Tradesman but mine is less than 1400 lbs. That payload also has to account for anything you put in the truck too (you, family, pets, gear, etc.).

IMO w-a-y too much trailer for a 1/2 ton. It may make it within towing capacity if you don't put anything in it but there's no way it's going to make it for GVWR, GCWR, or payload capacity.

Just my .02

 

[Willwork4truck]

Some folks don't worry about payload or GCVWR:
39.5 footer.
Says it weighs 14K. No idea what the sandrail weighs.

On a more serious note, for any newbie to towing, watch something like this You Tube:

What Can You ACTUALLY Tow? Payload -Tow Capacity - Travel Trailer​

254,861 views
•Nov 4, 2020

 

[RebelDogAndTruck]

Hi all,
Just collected my Rebel 2 weeks ago and trying to figure out max payload and towing
I believe payload is fairly straightforward but can't figure out the rocket science behind towing capacity based on my sill stickers. I feel like so many factors of a spec'd truck change max that you have to wait to get the truck to find out.
A lot of what I find online mention the GCWR but I don't see that on my stickers.
Any help would be appreciated!

 

[auggiedoggies]

Hi all,
Just collected my Rebel 2 weeks ago and trying to figure out max payload and towing
I believe payload is fairly straightforward but can't figure out the rocket science behind towing capacity based on my sill stickers. I feel like so many factors of a spec'd truck change max that you have to wait to get the truck to find out.
A lot of what I find online mention the GCWR but I don't see that on my stickers.
Any help would be appreciated!

I'm not seeing that you have the tow package, but either way with a Rebel you're not going to be towing anything big. Are you looking at a camper, a boat, a trailer?

With a camper, you're going to have to stay with something in the 5-6k range at the absolute most. Your payload is just too low for anything else. Your tow capacity is probably technically 7-7500, but your payload will limit you.

 

[RebelDogAndTruck]

I'm not seeing that you have the tow package, but either way with a Rebel you're not going to be towing anything big. Are you looking at a camper, a boat, a trailer?

With a camper, you're going to have to stay with something in the 5-6k range at the absolute most. Your payload is just too low for anything else. Your tow capacity is probably technically 7-7500, but your payload will limit you.

Thanks. Does the tow package give you added capacity? I thought it was just that trailer steering and maybe extra features like bigger mirrors.
I'd be looking to tow a small flatbed trailer or ~20' boat. Nothing too large. I just want to make sure payload + tow + capacity don't exceed limits. I thought that 7,100 lbs number may be the tow number but my payload looks to be about 1,100 without passengers or other cargo.

 

[brian42]

Thanks. Does the tow package give you added capacity? I thought it was just that trailer steering and maybe extra features like bigger mirrors.

The "Trailer-Tow Group" is convenience features for towing: mirrors, trailer brake controller, steering, etc. Nothing in that group will add any capacity.

There's a "Max Tow Package" that has a different rear axle (Dana Super 60 9.75" IIRC instead of the Chrylser 9.25"). I know that bumps some of the numbers up but I'm not sure which ones or by how much (or what models you can add it too).

Hi all,
Just collected my Rebel 2 weeks ago and trying to figure out max payload and towing
I believe payload is fairly straightforward but can't figure out the rocket science behind towing capacity based on my sill stickers. I feel like so many factors of a spec'd truck change max that you have to wait to get the truck to find out.
A lot of what I find online mention the GCWR but I don't see that on my stickers.
Any help would be appreciated!

There's a lot of numbers out there if you're not hip to the jargon.

Plenty of salespeople out there will feed you a line. It's because they want to sell you the truck or they just don't know so go with numbers that work to get the sale.

The ratings are published by the manufacturer as the maximum weight that the truck can safely operate at. Yes there is a safety margin built in but these can also be used against you. If you decide to run overloaded ("I only do it a couple of times a year and don't go very far", "Yeah I'm over but my truck handles it just fine", etc.) and you get into an accident you can be found at fault regardless of who caused it.

The numbers may change a bit from year to year and fluctuate a few pounds depending on the reference you use but here are some numbers for the DT:

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) - 7100 lbs
This is the total weight of the truck that should not be exceeded (base weight + people + gear + gas + payload).

GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) - 17,000 lbs
This is the total weight you can safely drag around (base weight + people + gear + gas + trailer)

Payload Capacity - unique based on each truck
This is the GVWR minus base weight (how it left the factory - which includes all the cool options/packages and all those parts that come with it)

Towing Capacity - 11340 lbs (3.92 rear)
This is/is not a real number. If no other weights were a concern then this is the maximum amount of weight your drivetrain (frame, engine, transmission, driveshaft, axles, brakes, etc.) can handle dragging around. This number is always going to be higher than what you can realistically tow safely with your truck (GCWR - GVWR).

We can't forget the other factors that go into this as well:

GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating)
This is the total amount of weight that can safely be supported by the axle. The front axle GAWR is 3900 lbs and the rear axle GAWR is 4100 lbs (for the 9.25" rear that almost all of us have).

Tires
The construction of the tire (load rating) will ensure safe driving. The higher the rating the "beefier" the tire as far as construction, sidewall stiffness, and load capacities.

Here's an example:

1. Your truck sticker says you have 1175 lb payload capacity.
2. GVWR (7100 lbs) - 1175 lbs = 5925 lbs base weight.
3. GCWR (17K lbs) - base weight (5925 lbs) = 11,075 lbs maximum towing capacity for your truck before you even unlock the truck (which is less than the 11,340 lbs maximum towing capacity published by RAM).

Now throw you, family, pets, gear, and gas in there and the weight adds up quick...but don't forget that you have to account for the tongue weight of your trailer as "payload" too...typically 5%-7% for a boat trailer, 10%-15% for a bumper-pull RV trailer, and 20%-25% for a 5th wheel RV trailer.

I'll get off my soapbox now but leave you with this (there are some links to longer threads with more info also):

So you want to tow a camper!

The first thing you need to do is decide which camp you fall in. The best camp to be in is to own neither the truck or the camper. This allows you to research and keep feelings out of your decision. This allows you to easily sit back and learn the process. The next camp is owning the truck or...

5thgenrams.com

 

[SpookyWatcher]

I'm not seeing that you have the tow package, but either way with a Rebel you're not going to be towing anything big. Are you looking at a camper, a boat, a trailer?

With a camper, you're going to have to stay with something in the 5-6k range at the absolute most. Your payload is just too low for anything else. Your tow capacity is probably technically 7-7500, but your payload will limit you.

My 2021 Rebel has a max tow of 11,508.2 lbs per the lookup website for my vin. I can't find the actual website right now...
and a max payload of 1,608.42 lbs. With me the wifey and kids and bags... That still leaves me with 1,120 lbs payload. Figure a 900 lbs tongue weight for a 9k lbs trailer.

Even if he has the loaded Rebel.. I doubt his limit is 7500lbs. ** Edit to add *** auggiedoggies is correct.. Pay no attention to me!

That being said. There is no way in heck I'd be pulling 11,508 lbs with it, Or even 9k.

** Edit to add ** I just saw his 1,175 lbs max payload. Eeeshh.. He might be limited to 7k just cause of payload!

 

[RebelDogAndTruck]

The "Trailer-Tow Group" is convenience features for towing: mirrors, trailer brake controller, steering, etc. Nothing in that group will add any capacity.

There's a "Max Tow Package" that has a different rear axle (Dana Super 60 9.75" IIRC instead of the Chrylser 9.25"). I know that bumps some of the numbers up but I'm not sure which ones or by how much (or what models you can add it too).


There's a lot of numbers out there if you're not hip to the jargon.

Plenty of salespeople out there will feed you a line. It's because they want to sell you the truck or they just don't know so go with numbers that work to get the sale.

The ratings are published by the manufacturer as the maximum weight that the truck can safely operate at. Yes there is a safety margin built in but these can also be used against you. If you decide to run overloaded ("I only do it a couple of times a year and don't go very far", "Yeah I'm over but my truck handles it just fine", etc.) and you get into an accident you can be found at fault regardless of who caused it.

The numbers may change a bit from year to year and fluctuate a few pounds depending on the reference you use but here are some numbers for the DT:

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) - 7100 lbs
This is the total weight of the truck that should not be exceeded (base weight + people + gear + gas + payload).

GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) - 17,000 lbs
This is the total weight you can safely drag around (base weight + people + gear + gas + trailer)

Payload Capacity - unique based on each truck
This is the GVWR minus base weight (how it left the factory - which includes all the cool options/packages and all those parts that come with it)

Towing Capacity - 11340 lbs (3.92 rear)
This is/is not a real number. If no other weights were a concern then this is the maximum amount of weight your drivetrain (frame, engine, transmission, driveshaft, axles, brakes, etc.) can handle dragging around. This number is always going to be higher than what you can realistically tow safely with your truck (GCWR - GVWR).

We can't forget the other factors that go into this as well:

GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating)
This is the total amount of weight that can safely be supported by the axle. The front axle GAWR is 3900 lbs and the rear axle GAWR is 4100 lbs (for the 9.25" rear that almost all of us have).

Tires
The construction of the tire (load rating) will ensure safe driving. The higher the rating the "beefier" the tire as far as construction, sidewall stiffness, and load capacities.

Here's an example:

1. Your truck sticker says you have 1175 lb payload capacity.
2. GVWR (7100 lbs) - 1175 lbs = 5925 lbs base weight.
3. GCWR (17K lbs) - base weight (5925 lbs) = 11,075 lbs maximum towing capacity for your truck before you even unlock the truck (which is less than the 11,340 lbs maximum towing capacity published by RAM).

Now throw you, family, pets, gear, and gas in there and the weight adds up quick...but don't forget that you have to account for the tongue weight of your trailer as "payload" too...typically 5%-7% for a boat trailer, 10%-15% for a bumper-pull RV trailer, and 20%-25% for a 5th wheel RV trailer.

I'll get off my soapbox now but leave you with this (there are some links to longer threads with more info also):

So you want to tow a camper!

The first thing you need to do is decide which camp you fall in. The best camp to be in is to own neither the truck or the camper. This allows you to research and keep feelings out of your decision. This allows you to easily sit back and learn the process. The next camp is owning the truck or...

5thgenrams.com

That is amazing information. Thank you so much. How did you get GCWR? online somewhere? It wasn't on my stickers and I knew it was important to the equations. I won't be towing much at all. More-so payload but even then nothing too heavy. Just want to know my limits.

 

[RebelDogAndTruck]

My 2021 Rebel has a max tow of 11,508.2 lbs per the lookup website for my vin. I can't find the actual website right now...
and a max payload of 1,608.42 lbs. With me the wifey and kids and bags... That still leaves me with 1,120 lbs payload. Figure a 900 lbs tongue weight for a 9k lbs trailer.

Even if he has the loaded Rebel.. I doubt his limit is 7500lbs. ** Edit to add *** auggiedoggies is correct.. Pay no attention to me!

That being said. There is no way in heck I'd be pulling 11,508 lbs with it, Or even 9k.

** Edit to add ** I just saw his 1,175 lbs max payload. Eeeshh.. He might be limited to 7k just cause of payload!

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like your Rebel is a bit more capable than mine but I did load mine up with options which probably dropped the numbers.

 

[brian42]

That is amazing information. Thank you so much. How did you get GCWR? online somewhere? It wasn't on my stickers and I knew it was important to the equations. I won't be towing much at all. More-so payload but even then nothing too heavy. Just want to know my limits.

There's a reason why it takes some work to find out all the ratings. You can find max tow rating all day (and twice on Sunday) because that's what is going to sell trucks...not the fact that you can never get there and still be under GCWR or payload.

I got it from here:

https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuilder/service/Image?imageId=MtQrP/FqLY5r/est8MtGjGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBONjPJTiLoD5

To be fair, though, we are talking about 1/2 ton trucks. That "1/2 ton" came from the payload capacity of the truck. Over the years expectations rise and each new year has to be better than the last (stiffer frame, better ride, more tech, bigger numbers for engine output and towing). Some time in the past the term 'payload' split into two discussions - how much you can put in the bed and how much you can tow/haul. These are always discussed as separate things so most people never know there's an overlap and one affects the other. It's easier to sell someone a truck by telling them they can put 1300+ lbs in the bed and that the truck can haul a 11K+ lb trailer. They fail to mention that you can't have both.

Those that are complaining that we only have 1500 lbs payload (mine is about 1350 lbs) are experiencing first world problems as a 1/2 ton pickup should have a 1/2 ton payload capacity (not a 3/4 ton payload capacity). IMO too many people are expecting 3/4 ton work (towing/hauling) out of their 1/2 ton trucks. Even with all the new technology and improvements over the years even an old 3/4 ton will get it done better than a new 1/2 ton, it just doesn't commute as well or serve as a cost-effective daily driver. I love my RAM but my old 2003 F-250 diesel still does better 'work' (towing, hauling, etc.) than my RAM ever could, but unloaded my RAM is better in every way.

You can Google and find a lot sites that have specs or PDFs that you can download which will be close (depending on their sources) but stuff direct from FCA (Stellantis) is going to be gospel.

If you're looking for some solid numbers about your truck there are some great things to look at on the RAM Commercial Body Builder's Guide webpage:

Ram Commercial Body Builder Guide - Upfit Your Truck

Ram Trucks Body Builder's Guide has information you need to upfit your truck. Explore the Body Builder Guide for dimensions, electrical & technical guides.

www.ramtrucks.com

The weights chart (first link in this post) is in the 'Technical' section on the Body Builder's Guide web page above.

The RAM Trucks website (www.ramtrucks.com) is more than just a build & price tool.

 

[Mountain Whiskey]

Some folks don't worry about payload or GCVWR:
View attachment 94507 39.5 footer.
Says it weighs 14K. No idea what the sandrail weighs.

On a more serious note, for any newbie to towing, watch something like this You Tube:

What Can You ACTUALLY Tow? Payload -Tow Capacity - Travel Trailer​

254,861 views
•Nov 4, 2020

There's still room to hook the boat to the back of thar RV isn't there?

 

[Willwork4truck]

Yea and if he had cab high sideboards on the truck, anything he could stuff in there would be "golden".

Years ago, well 47 to be exact, I loaded a Dodge D300 dumpbed up with uhh, wet sand. It had rained a bit the day before, (maybe an inch) but heck, water drains right through sand right?
So I load up the sand to the cab high sideboards. Now in my defense I "did" notice the truck was uhh, struggling to get going in 1st gear (4 speed), but I thought it would be ok. ( It was till the 1st 90 degree right turn, then both back rt side duals blew out.).

That's how we determined how well you could load a truck, (well, I shoulda' stopped just before I made the duals blow...).