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There Will NOT Be A Hurricane Plug-In Hybrid, After All!

redriderbob

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There Will NOT Be A Hurricane Plug-In Hybrid, After All!​

Grand Wagoneer Will Instead Go Battery Electric...​


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With the introduction of its all-new twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter “Hurricane” inline-six-cylinder engines, Stellantis North America (FCA US) looks to continue to offer an alternative to electrification in its larger vehicle offerings in the North American marketplace. This past week, FCA US gave us a brief look at their new dynamic duo of Hurricane or “GME-T6” offerings, with both standard-output (S.O.) and high-output (H.O.) versions being announced.

 

Bt10

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This really is disappointing to see all the failures of design philosophy. A straight 6, and if you add any real hybrid motor between the motor and trans, how long a package is that going to be? What kinda hood length and footbox are you going to get with midsized charger/challenger/durango/dakota/grand cherokee? Full size truck might work, but still depressing. If Toyota has been killing it for 25 years, Ford has just gotten into it with both fullsize and small sizes, the general layout isn't trademarked; what happened? Turbo V6 or even 4 cyl, with emotor woulda set them for years...
 

Biga

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I still don't see all the hype with hybrids. All the extra complexity, cost and potential for parts to fail with having two separate systems in a vehicle does not come close to making up for the increase in fuel economy.
 

WXman

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PHEV is the ONLY way to go. It eliminates the huge problem with electrification which is range and cost. Look at the Wrangler 4xe. You can drive it all over town without a drop of gasoline. But, you can also take it on long trips without spending dozens of hours at a charger. It's the best of both worlds. BEV is too impractical to ever work for most customers, not to mention our power grid.
 

habu987

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By all accounts, the original, since deleted, article is wrong.

Anyways, I'm all aboard the PHEV hype train. I currently have a Sorento PHEV (got it in late '21 when I needed a 3rd row in a pinch) and, despite this particular drivetrain implementation having some flaws, I think it's the way to go.

My best tank was just over 2500 miles due to all-electric driving around town, and I've had one other 2000+ mile tank. I also get a combined 30-34mpg when running in hybrid mode. With electricity pricing coming in at around $2 per gallon equivalent, I have no complaints.

I'm open to a full EV, but I'd prefer to stay with PHEVs until at least the next generation of EV technology. I need to upsize my SUV in the next year or two and will definitely check out the PHEV W/GW at that time.
 

Bt10

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I guess I have no use for a plug in hybrid. I live rural and it's a 20 mile drive to anything, not to mention all the vacation traveling we do. Additionally, I'm 2 miles off pavement, in the snow zone, haul dirt bikes, travel trailers, home improvement, etc, so it can't be a Prius. I never want to need an outlet for full use of the vehicle, which is what the Toyota stuff requires for full power. The standard hybrid is enough for me, but I do understand the city dwellers that could use a plug in. One point that is rarely brought up is where do apartment dwellers plug in? I have a Lexus NX350h (same as Rav4 Hybrid) that gets 35-40mpg. Without descending into political bickering, I just don't want to be "mandated" to try to use infant plug in technology, until it is matured and capable. I've got 13 years till retirement, will I be allowed to pull a small travel trailer around the southern US or Baja?
 

Grape_Ape

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I guess I have no use for a plug in hybrid. I live rural and it's a 20 mile drive to anything, not to mention all the vacation traveling we do. Additionally, I'm 2 miles off pavement, in the snow zone, haul dirt bikes, travel trailers, home improvement, etc, so it can't be a Prius. I never want to need an outlet for full use of the vehicle, which is what the Toyota stuff requires for full power. The standard hybrid is enough for me, but I do understand the city dwellers that could use a plug in. One point that is rarely brought up is where do apartment dwellers plug in? I have a Lexus NX350h (same as Rav4 Hybrid) that gets 35-40mpg. Without descending into political bickering, I just don't want to be "mandated" to try to use infant plug in technology, until it is matured and capable. I've got 13 years till retirement, will I be allowed to pull a small travel trailer around the southern US or Baja?
Unfortunately us rural folk are a dying breed and make up a fraction of the target markets. Hopefully there will be options that make more sense for us. I'm currently looking into solar and batteries for my house to take advantage of the tax credits. I'm an electrician by trade so I feel comfortable working in these things myself but I'm looking at it as the newest iteration of homesteading. It seems as though electrification is the future. So if I'm gonna live on my 40 acres and not be dependent then I'd better make accommodations to support myself.
 

HSKR R/T

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This really is disappointing to see all the failures of design philosophy. A straight 6, and if you add any real hybrid motor between the motor and trans, how long a package is that going to be? What kinda hood length and footbox are you going to get with midsized charger/challenger/durango/dakota/grand cherokee? Full size truck might work, but still depressing. If Toyota has been killing it for 25 years, Ford has just gotten into it with both fullsize and small sizes, the general layout isn't trademarked; what happened? Turbo V6 or even 4 cyl, with emotor woulda set them for years...
Going Hybrid with the Hurricane turbo engines is kind of pointless. The whole reason you would use a turbo inline 6 is for power output. If you are using electric motors to drive the wheels, the HO engine is useless as it's still the batteries driving the motors and the engine is just acting as a large generator. No need for a 400+ HP output engine just to generate electricity in a vehicle
 

jdefoe0424

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Going Hybrid with the Hurricane turbo engines is kind of pointless. The whole reason you would use a turbo inline 6 is for power output. If you are using electric motors to drive the wheels, the HO engine is useless as it's still the batteries driving the motors and the engine is just acting as a large generator. No need for a 400+ HP output engine just to generate electricity in a vehicle
FWIW, I'm for PHEV's, it's the best of both worlds right now. If I could drive my truck to work on electricity alone and still have all the engine power I need to pull the camper when needed then I would buy one.
The power is not really pointless, you just may not necessarily be using all the power available from the engine. If you're going down the highway and need 100hp to push through the wind...that 100hp still needs to come from somewhere if the battery is running down below 10%. Think about if you're pulling a trailer, would you like being limited to 15mph, or less, because you're out of battery power and the engine can't produce enough electricity to get you somewhere at speed?

This really is disappointing to see all the failures of design philosophy. A straight 6, and if you add any real hybrid motor between the motor and trans, how long a package is that going to be? What kinda hood length and footbox are you going to get with midsized charger/challenger/durango/dakota/grand cherokee? Full size truck might work, but still depressing. If Toyota has been killing it for 25 years, Ford has just gotten into it with both fullsize and small sizes, the general layout isn't trademarked; what happened? Turbo V6 or even 4 cyl, with emotor woulda set them for years...
Depending on the power of the electric motor, they can be installed where the torque converter is as part of the transmission. This is how the F150 powerboost is set up, ZF has a similar design and I was hoping they were going to do that instead of the useless 48v etorque that stellantis vehicles have.
 

Bt10

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Going Hybrid with the Hurricane turbo engines is kind of pointless. The whole reason you would use a turbo inline 6 is for power output. If you are using electric motors to drive the wheels, the HO engine is useless as it's still the batteries driving the motors and the engine is just acting as a large generator. No need for a 400+ HP output engine just to generate electricity in a vehicle
Reread.
...

Depending on the power of the electric motor, they can be installed where the torque converter is as part of the transmission. This is how the F150 powerboost is set up, ZF has a similar design and I was hoping they were going to do that instead of the useless 48v etorque that stellantis vehicles have.
Same with Toyota, electric motor between gas engine and trans.
 

HSKR R/T

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Reread.

Same with Toyota, electric motor between gas engine and trans.
Re-read? The reply came after mine

As far as mounting a single electric motor in that configuration, it's very inefficient. As then the electric motor is also overcoming drivetrain loss. This is why full EV vehicles use electric motors directly driving the wheels.

The draw, for a lot of people, to EVs right now is the acceleration and torque they produce. that happens because the motors are a direct drive for the wheels. You can still do that with a hybrid, using the ICE engine as just a generator. This also means you don't have to try and make 400+HP to go fast. Batteries for accelerating, or high torque for getting heavy loads moving, then when cruising at steady speeds, the generator re-charges the batteries. Mugh like diesel locomotives. And pretty sure this is what Ram is planning for their extended range EV trucks.
 

WXman

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Going Hybrid with the Hurricane turbo engines is kind of pointless. The whole reason you would use a turbo inline 6 is for power output. If you are using electric motors to drive the wheels, the HO engine is useless as it's still the batteries driving the motors and the engine is just acting as a large generator. No need for a 400+ HP output engine just to generate electricity in a vehicle

Going hybrid is exactly when you'd still use a powerful engine, because once the battery pack is dead you've got the power of the ICE to fall back on. Don't confuse a hybrid with a plug-in hybrid. They are two different things.

As for the rural guy discussion, PHEV still benefits you because that 20 minute drive to town can be gasoline free before you need to use the ICE.

PHEV is brilliant, and if they made a PHEV Ram 1500 that's what I'd be driving right now. Imagine the 4xe system from the Jeep, except with a slightly larger pack to offer 50 miles of range instead of 25. It would be as practical as you can get.
 

HSKR R/T

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Going hybrid is exactly when you'd still use a powerful engine, because once the battery pack is dead you've got the power of the ICE to fall back on. Don't confuse a hybrid with a plug-in hybrid. They are two different things.
You aren't listening to what I am saying. put electric motors on the wheels. No mechanical connection from wheel to ICE. Only thing driving the wheels is pure electric. ICE is there only to be a generator.
 

MoparMantis

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I'd look at a phev pretty seriously if they came out with one in the ram. Our annual driving is about 50% city 50% long distance travels. The 50% city would easily be covered with electric. The 50% travels would have a 400+ hp engine that gets mileage similar to our minivan. I left the pickup home a few times for vacations because of fuel costs.
 

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