TFL on Stellantis sales…..

[Dewey]

 

[SD Rebel]

Pretty much on point with several conversations on this forum, especially in the 2025 thread.

Lets see, more expensive than ever, glitches, service center not responding well, no Hemi for the old faithful, etc. I can't imagine myself willingly paying $70K for a new truck only to have it sit at the dealer with an issue they may not know how to fix or may take a while with.

Funny thing is, my local RAM dealer had over 100 trucks just a few months ago, they only have 20 right now. I wonder if there is also a production issue?

Either way, as much as I love my Rebel, I absolutely adore it, when it comes to replacing it one day, I don't think it will be another RAM. Everything seems to be pointing at GM for me, and you can see the only truck maker to increase sales in the full size category was GM.

 

[firecadet613]

It's amazing to me how quickly Stellantis is sinking this ship...

Like @SD Rebel, I'll likely be in a GM next. I've had two Fords, but happy to try out a GM (after having a few GM company cars that are 100% trouble free).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1808539830587982331

 

[Biga]

I agree with a lot of it, though all the brands are dealing with major quality issues right now. I think the biggest thing hurting Ram/Jeep is the high interest rates and slow product updates/releases. I mean you still can't get a 2025 Ram Limited or Tungsten and they killed off the Challenger and Charger before they new ones where even ready to be shipped to dealers. Will be interested to see once all the Ram versions are out including the Ram Charger. Jeep Wagoneer sales seem to be the sweet spot up over 100% from last year.

 

[SD Rebel]

I agree with a lot of it, though all the brands are dealing with major quality issues right now. I think the biggest thing hurting Ram/Jeep is the high interest rates and slow product updates/releases. I mean you still can't get a 2025 Ram Limited or Tungsten and they killed off the Challenger and Charger before they new ones where even ready to be shipped to dealers. Will be interested to see once all the Ram versions are out including the Ram Charger. Jeep Wagoneer sales seem to be the sweet spot up over 100% from last year.

What's funny is I thought that due to high prices, the Wagoneer would be the sales issue, turns it it was the opposite.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

Our issue is the Grand Wagoneers. I'm sitting on a million plus dollars of unsellable inventory. When I have had a customer on them, they are on stop sale. Stellantis really needs to get things figured out, and in a hurry. Their past success has always been due to aggressively priced trucks with a strong lease/purchase message. We are a multi point store, and robbed a lot of Chevy sales due to Rams aggressive pricing. The table have definitely turned.

My last Ram was a 20 Night Edition Laramie. It was loaded and stickered for around 62k. I leased it for 400 a month. My new Night Edition Laramie with similar features was 77k, and let's say it's nowhere near a 400 pmt anymore.

 

[Biga]

What's funny is I thought that due to high prices, the Wagoneer would be the sales issue, turns it it was the opposite.

Yea, I think it's the Wagoneer tends to be a favorite of upper class families who may not be affected by high interest rates as much while the more main stream pickup trucks are more your working man's truck. I'm betting the Tungsten Ram will sell just was well as the Wagoneers.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

Wagoneer is a lot more sellable than the Grand. Even during Covid, that 110k plus market is a big ask, especially for a Jeep. Most people would rather buy a tried and true Escalade/Denali at that price point.

The other issue that is affecting overall sales is; most people are coming out of the Covid 2/3 year trade cycle where they paid MSRP with no rebates. There is a ton of negative equity out there right now. Combine that with high rates and poor lease messages, and you have a lot of buyers unable to swallow the new pmts.

 

[Dewey]

It’s really perfect storm for Stellantis and they created it all for themselves. Killing their muscle car identity with the Dodge brand by removing the Hemi and Hellcat options was the final straw for many. Then promoting an EV Dodge Charger with a fake exhaust sound really rubbed people the wrong way. I realize government regulations had a lot to do with that but I can’t help but feel the Dodge engineers failed miserably refining the V8 for the muscle cars so they could be retained. Pushing those options out and then pushing the Hornet to the forefront was absolutely ridiculous and proved the writing is on the wall for what direction they want to go. Quite sad how it all played out. They did it to themselves.

As far as RAM goes only providing a 6 cylinder Turbo and completely removing the Hemi was a fatal mistake. Sure the Hurricane might be a more powerful and maybe even better motor in the long run but no denying it’s gonna push away a large percentage of truck buyers who want more than one option. Chevy/Gmc still has that and I see their market share increasing dramatically. Gonna be a lot of guys jumping ship when they decide to buy a new truck. Been seeing that here already.

Price increases are the #1 issue by far especially for trucks. It’s pretty shocking to see the jump in MSRP’s the last 5 years. It’s to the point much of the middle class cannot even afford a new truck anymore and that’s sad. Almost everyone I talk to says prices have gotten so crazy that they refuse to buy a new truck in the future. It’s not surprising at all that sales are dropping like they are and assembly plants are shutting down due to excessive inventory.

Stellantis is at a tipping point right now. Very sad to see the direction they went but it was a good ride while it lasted. Hoping I’m wrong but current management seems to be setting these brands up to fail. No other way to explain it.

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

It’s really perfect storm for Stellantis and they created it all for themselves. Killing their muscle car identity with the Dodge brand by removing the Hemi and Hellcat options was the final straw for many. Then promoting an EV Dodge Charger with a fake exhaust sound really rubbed people the wrong way. I realize government regulations had a lot to do with that but I can’t help but feel the Dodge engineers failed miserably refining the V8 for the muscle cars so they could be retained. Pushing those options out and then pushing the Hornet to the forefront was absolutely ridiculous and proved the writing is on the wall for what direction they want to go. Quite sad how it all played out. They did it to themselves.

While I don't completely disagree, the Challenger makes up less than 10% of overall sales compared to their truck lineup. They needed a complete makeover regardless, as their sales declined drastically from 22 to 23. Kudos to Stellantis for limping that design for as long as they had. They are the Kings of slapping on some new names, adding a badge, and reselling for thousands more.

Don't get me started on the Big 3's move towards EV products. They went about this from a shareholder perspective, trying to imitate Tesla's model; and it's biting them in the butt. The govt is not helping things by requiring mfg's to move that direction. The public is pushing back on getting EV's, that aren't ready for mainstream, shoved down their throats. I live in an area with charge stations hundreds of miles from each other, and temps in the winter that cut range in half. Yet I keep getting EV allocations forced on me. It's friggin ridiculous.

As far as RAM goes only providing a 6 cylinder Turbo and completely removing the Hemi was a fatal mistake. Sure the Hurricane might be a more powerful and maybe even better motor in the long run but no denying it’s gonna push away a large percentage of truck buyers who want more than one option. Chevy/Gmc still has that and I see their market share increasing dramatically. Gonna be a lot of guys jumping ship when they decide to buy a new truck. Been seeing that here already.

Everyone hates change. I'm a die hard Hemi fan, and picked up a remaining 5.7 Laramie before they were gone; but there is no denying the Hurricane is the future. That motor is quieter, induces way less NVH, and will run circles around the Hemi in stock form. Wait till tuners get their hands on it. Mid 5's out of a safe tune will be pretty easy to get. How much money do you need to dump into your dinosaur hemi to get anywhere even close, and with lower reliability.

Price increases are the #1 issue by far especially for trucks. It’s pretty shocking to see the jump in MSRP’s the last 5 years. It’s to the point much of the middle class cannot even afford a new truck anymore and that’s sad. Almost everyone I talk to says prices have gotten so crazy that they refuse to buy a new truck in the future. It’s not surprising at all that sales are dropping like they are and assembly plants are shutting down due to excessive inventory.

This is the #1 issue right here. Stellantis got greedy. My first high trim Ram was a Limited in 2014. Sticker was 54k. While I can say my 24 Laramie is definitely a nicer vehicle overall than my 4th gen Limited; it's certainly not 20k nicer. My 24 Laramie is the exact same truck as my 20, and it's 15k more. They've priced themselves out of the market.

Stellantis is at a tipping point right now. Very sad to see the direction they went but it was a good ride while it lasted. Hoping I’m wrong but current management seems to be setting these brands up to fail. No other way to explain it.

Yup, there needs to be a pretty serious restructure needed. I have flashbacks of the Iacocca days. Maybe they need a K car 2.0?

 

[firecadet613]

Wagoneer is a lot more sellable than the Grand. Even during Covid, that 110k plus market is a big ask, especially for a Jeep. Most people would rather buy a tried and true Escalade/Denali at that price point.

The other issue that is affecting overall sales is; most people are coming out of the Covid 2/3 year trade cycle where they paid MSRP with no rebates. There is a ton of negative equity out there right now. Combine that with high rates and poor lease messages, and you have a lot of buyers unable to swallow the new pmts.

Yep. I recently spent 9 days in Yellowstone with a 103k Escalade as my rental. It was FLAWLESS and really dialed in. No sane person would pay more for a Wagoneer...

 

[azzx]

Take a look at the absolute dog-**** car companies that Stellantis owns.
Chrysler thrived under FCA / Sergio Marchionne. God rest his soul.
I kind of sort of like France -- however, they are not a car culture country.
Look at all of the crap on this list (excluding RAM).
The dumb...F....ks that own Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Ram have zero idea about what is important to the US.
Just a conjecture --- we are paying for keeping doggy dodo like Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot, Vauxhall in business by reducing the quality of our trucks and paying obscene prices.

Seriously -- Vauxhall. I thought this crap went out of business in the 70s

 

[Alter Ego Trip]

And yet ironically; Fiat is the only brand up for Stellantis ATM.

 

[MarPar]

Yup, there needs to be a pretty serious restructure needed. I have flashbacks of the Iacocca days. Maybe they need a K car 2.0?