So I just got back from a road trip

[ldoh]

This stuff isn't news. Most understood there's a reason FCA wanted to sell itself to any suitor the last few years. FCA took shortcuts and failed to do necessary homework or invest in future technologies. Instead they bought federal greenhouse credits from Tesla almost every year to keep federal penalties low. And even then FCA still paid around $100 million in federal penalties. In the end, FCA makes most of its profits from US Ram and Jeep sales but doesn't properly invest in the products. Unless the potential PSA merger adds some pixie dust, don't expect much Ram or Jeep drive train magic in the future.

I knew about and accepted the Ram drive train shortcomings and bought a heavily discounted new gen 5 Ram 1500. It was a great deal for the value and functionality.

 

[Sir Ramcelot]

Lol kiss my *** bro. I’m simply stating compared to the GM’s 6.2 and 10-speed this is utter garbage

It’s 2020. No way in hell should a next gen truck have 13mpg

Anyways my main regret is possibly not grabbing the 6.2 Trail Boss. But then again that interior just simply wouldn’t do for me.
Luckily this isn’t my road trip vehicle.

I would say Rebel has a 2” lift and off-road tires which absolutely hurts MPG. Your Escalade has street tires and rides lower. And as others have said, 6.2L with “highly recommended” premium vs. “recommended” mid-grade on Rebel. If you really want to maximize your MPG, the 3.0 Duramax is the same cost ($2495) as the 6.2L V8 and averages 24 vs. 17.

 

[Sir Ramcelot]

I definitely wish I would've done the 2020 eco diesel instead of the hemi...I get 18mpg tops in my 20 Laramie ORP. Hoping that when I move to 35s it will increase highway mpg as I'll run at lower rpms at highway speeds

Why? The ED wound have cost you $3200 over the regular Hemi and you would never make your money back. ED costs you up front and in mx so any “savings” you think you see with the fuel-ups is more than negated by the up front cost, mx and interest if you financed.

 

[Sir Ramcelot]

Traded in my 2019 limited 5.7 because I was sick of the **** poor mileage. Got a 2020 EcoDiesel and am seeing 28-30mpg consistantly. Love it! And diesel is cheaper currently in Ontario.

How is an engine that is $3000 more than the eTorque and $3200 more than the regular Hemi cheaper?

 

[Helmetface]

Around town, yes, but not necessarily true for freeway.

It most certainly is true for highway.

In fact, depending on your mean speed, its worse.

The sheer addition in rotational mass is going to reduce the average mileage, in most cases, significantly.

Since adding a 2.5" lift and 34.4's, I have not been able to average more than 15 MPG with heavy highway driving. Prior to the lift/tires, with ORP 275's, I was routinely getting 19+. And keep in mind, this is "trying" to achieve good mileage.

Obviously everyone's mileage will differ, especially those who drive in hilly environments vs flat terrain.

 

[J-Cooz]

How is an engine that is $3000 more than the eTorque and $3200 more than the regular Hemi cheaper?

Oops typo. I meant diesel fuel is cheaper.

 

[Trooper4]

Love all the complaining about poor mileage I see here. There are SOOO many variables involved, it is impossible to compare between one RAM or another. Each rig has it's little quirks. Was the engine built with worne dies or fresh, making it an over-bore or under-bore. Are the pistons and rods batched for weight. Was the crank machined with perfect or worn machining components. Along with all the other component variables, whether the truck was built on a certain day of the week, and was a given worker having a good day or bad. Then throw in geographic location and driving habits and you wonder how any two rigs can get comparable mpg, or how you can even compare one to another. Millage is what it is, and you just have to live with it. There are good and bad in all brands and models. I was lucky and got a good one, but that does not make Rams a good brand, as a bad one does not do the opposite.
Mileage and quality are all relevant to the one, not the whole.
Enjoy the day, for there will never be another one like it.

 

[Sir Ramcelot]

Love all the complaining about poor mileage I see here. There are SOOO many variables involved, it is impossible to compare between one RAM or another. Each rig has it's little quirks. Was the engine built with worne dies or fresh, making it an over-bore or under-bore. Are the pistons and rods batched for weight. Was the crank machined with perfect or worn machining components. Along with all the other component variables, whether the truck was built on a certain day of the week, and was a given worker having a good day or bad. Then throw in geographic location and driving habits and you wonder how any two rigs can get comparable mpg, or how you can even compare one to another. Millage is what it is, and you just have to live with it. There are good and bad in all brands and models. I was lucky and got a good one, but that does not make Rams a good brand, as a bad one does not do the opposite.
Mileage and quality are all relevant to the one, not the whole.
Enjoy the day, for there will never be another one like it.

Saw your sig and profile pic...you tow a 5th wheel with your 5’7” box 1500??

 

[Rollint]

Why? The ED wound have cost you $3200 over the regular Hemi and you would never make your money back. ED costs you up front and in mx so any “savings” you think you see with the fuel-ups is more than negated by the up front cost, mx and interest if you financed.

Well, imagine how much spend on fuel in a year with the hemi and cut it in half...that is the direct savings. So I spend 3k in fuel with a hemi that means in two year I spend 6k so by end of second year I have paid for the motor in fuel savings. True, maintenance is more, but honestly it is negligible. By year 3 or 4 you've made you're money back and then some. Diesel costs about 10% more but is 40% more efficient than a hemi. Seems a no brainer.

 

[SpeedyV]

Well, imagine how much spend on fuel in a year with the hemi and cut it in half...that is the direct savings. So I spend 3k in fuel with a hemi that means in two year I spend 6k so by end of second year I have paid for the motor in fuel savings. True, maintenance is more, but honestly it is negligible. By year 3 or 4 you've made you're money back and then some. Diesel costs about 10% more but is 40% more efficient than a hemi. Seems a no brainer.

And if I drive 8K miles/year (or less), I’m spending roughly $1K/year in fuel. Even if I could actually get 30 mpg with a diesel, and diesel cost the same as gas, and maintenance costs were the same (none of which may be true), it would take me 6+ years to break even on the purchase price at $500/year. I agree that a diesel makes sense for an appropriate use case, but it’s not a given.

 

[SD Rebel]

......in our 2018 Escalade with the 6.2L/10-speed and averaged 21.3 mpg fully loaded down doing 80 mph......

My rebel gets 14 mpg doing 65.....in a vehicle that weighs less and has 25 fewer ponies under the hood. Anyone else have a bit of buyers remorse due to the horrendous mpg??

This seems off. My 2019 Rebel Hemi Non-Etoque will get 16 mpg at 80 mph. I can get 19 mpg at 65 mph, this is with MDS turned off. I can probably squeeze a bit more with MDS on, but I don't like the sound it makes with my aftermarket muffler.

My normal mpg is pretty low at 13mpg mixed, but this is with heavy street driving. But on the highway, keeping it steady at 65-70 mph, I can easily get 19+ mpg with MDS turned off. I also live in a very hilly location which doesn't help mpg.

 

[Trooper4]

Saw your sig and profile pic...you tow a 5th wheel with your 5’7” box 1500??

Yes indeed. Ram handles it just fine with no complaints.

 

[orange01z28]

And if I drive 8K miles/year (or less), I’m spending roughly $1K/year in fuel. Even if I could actually get 30 mpg with a diesel, and diesel cost the same as gas, and maintenance costs were the same (none of which may be true), it would take me 6+ years to break even on the purchase price at $500/year. I agree that a diesel makes sense for an appropriate use case, but it’s not a given.

Man I wish I could drive that little.

But yeah, it's always an appropriate use case. It's like the Corolla-Prius comparison when Priuses were new

 

[Neurobit]

And if I drive 8K miles/year (or less), I’m spending roughly $1K/year in fuel. Even if I could actually get 30 mpg with a diesel, and diesel cost the same as gas, and maintenance costs were the same (none of which may be true), it would take me 6+ years to break even on the purchase price at $500/year. I agree that a diesel makes sense for an appropriate use case, but it’s not a given.

Great analysis.
Diesel would not make since for me (and I love Diesels), since I drive roughly around 6k miles a year.

 

[Sir Ramcelot]

Well, imagine how much spend on fuel in a year with the hemi and cut it in half...that is the direct savings. So I spend 3k in fuel with a hemi that means in two year I spend 6k so by end of second year I have paid for the motor in fuel savings. True, maintenance is more, but honestly it is negligible. By year 3 or 4 you've made you're money back and then some. Diesel costs about 10% more but is 40% more efficient than a hemi. Seems a no brainer.

That math doesn't add-up. To say that you spend half as much in fuel for the ED infers that the ED gets twice the mileage of the HEMI which it doesn't. The initial cost of the ED over the non-Etorque HEMI is $3200 ($4995 for ED on Limited and $1795 for non-eTorque HEMI) and $3000 ($4995 for ED on Limited and $1995 for eTorque HEMI) over the eTorque HEMI. Assuming you get 20% off the price of your truck (not a given as we've seen), the ED will cost you $2560 over the non-eTorque and $2400 over the eTorque. Then you have to add sales tax (6.25% here in TX for auto purchases) so that ED cost you $2720 over the non-eTorque and $2550 over the eTorque. I will assume the buyer pays cash in this example (otherwise you have interest on top of that over the life of the loan). Example below.

Assumptions:
17mpg for non-eTorque (Monroney sticker combined)
19mpg for e-Torque (Monroney sticker combined)
24mpg for ED (Monroney sticker combined)
20,000 miles/yr
$2.19/gal for 87 octane
$2.44/gal for Diesel
$2.79/gal for DEF
7504 miles per tank of DEF
20% off purchase price of truck/options
6.25% vehicle sales tax
Regular oil change for HEMI = $40 (10 over 5 years at one per 10K = $400)
ED oil change including fuel filter = $100 (10 over 5 years at one per 10K = $1000)

100,000 miles driven in 5yrs
non-Etorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/17mpg)*$2.19/gal = $12,882.35
eTorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/19mpg)*$2.19/gal = $11,526.32
ED total fuel cost = (100,000miles/24mpg)*$2.44/gal = $10,166.67
DEF = (100,000miles/7504miles per tank) = 13.33 tanks of DEF
8 gallons DEF * $2.79/gal of DEF =$22.32 per tank of DEF
13.33 tanks of DEF * $22.32 per tank of DEF = $297.53 for DEF over 100,000 miles (5yrs at 20k/yr)

After 5 years at 20k/yr:
Total ED Cost (not including initial purchase price) = ED fuel cost ($10,166.67) + ED DEF ($297.53) + ED MX above HEMI ($600) = $11,064.2
Total non-eTorque Cost = $12,882.35
Total eTorque Cost = $11,526.32

ED vs. non-eTorque = $11,064.2 (total ED cost from above) + $2,720 (initial cost) = $13,784.2 for ED vs. $12,882.35 non-eTorque (savings of $901.85 for HEMI over 5yrs or $15.03 less per month)
ED vs. eTorque = $11,064.2 (total ED cost from above) + $2,550 (initial cost) = $13,614.2 for ED vs. $11,526.32 eTorque (savings of $2,087.88 for HEMI over 5yrs or $34.80 less per month)

The break-even just on gas, initial purchase price and DEF alone (not increased mx) = 112,478 miles @ $2.19/gal of 87 vs. $2.44/gal of diesel
The break-even just on gas, initial purchase price and DEF alone (not increased mx) = 256,070 miles @ $2.19/gal of 87 vs. $2.44/gal of diesel

Gas prices here in TX are even lower ($1.66 for 87 currently and $1.83 for diesel) so the math works out even worse for the diesel. I also used 20k/yr which is more than most people drive so if you drive less, the break even is even longer for ED. At the end of the day, can you eventually break-even for the ED? Sure, but the vast majority of people won't.

 

[Rollint]

It most certainly is true for highway.

In fact, depending on your mean speed, its worse.

The sheer addition in rotational mass is going to reduce the average mileage, in most cases, significantly.

Since adding a 2.5" lift and 34.4's, I have not been able to average more than 15 MPG with heavy highway driving. Prior to the lift/tires, with ORP 275's, I was routinely getting 19+. And keep in mind, this is "trying" to achieve good mileage.

Obviously everyone's mileage will differ, especially those who drive in hilly environments vs flat terrain.

You likely went with a significantly wider and softer tire. Plus the lift messes with your aero. If it were taller but same width and just slightly heavier you would've likely seen a small mpg gain

 

[Rollint]

That math doesn't add-up. To say that you spend half as much in fuel for the ED infers that the ED gets twice the mileage of the HEMI which it doesn't. The initial cost of the ED over the non-Etorque HEMI is $3200 ($4995 for ED on Limited and $1795 for non-eTorque HEMI) and $3000 ($4995 for ED on Limited and $1995 for eTorque HEMI) over the eTorque HEMI. Assuming you get 20% off the price of your truck (not a given as we've seen), the ED will cost you $2560 over the non-eTorque and $2400 over the eTorque. Then you have to add sales tax (6.25% here in TX for auto purchases) so that ED cost you $2720 over the non-eTorque and $2550 over the eTorque. I will assume the buyer pays cash in this example (otherwise you have interest on top of that over the life of the loan). Example below.

Assumptions:
17mpg for non-eTorque (Monroney sticker combined)
19mpg for e-Torque (Monroney sticker combined)
24mpg for ED (Monroney sticker combined)
20,000 miles/yr
$2.19/gal for 87 octane
$2.44/gal for Diesel
$2.79/gal for DEF
7504 miles per tank of DEF
20% off purchase price of truck/options
6.25% vehicle sales tax
Regular oil change for HEMI = $40 (10 over 5 years at one per 10K = $400)
ED oil change including fuel filter = $100 (10 over 5 years at one per 10K = $1000)

100,000 miles driven in 5yrs
non-Etorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/17mpg)*$2.19/gal = $12,882.35
eTorque total fuel cost = (100,000miles/19mpg)*$2.19/gal = $11,526.32
ED total fuel cost = (100,000miles/24mpg)*$2.44/gal = $10,166.67
DEF = (100,000miles/7504miles per tank) = 13.33 tanks of DEF
8 gallons DEF * $2.79/gal of DEF =$22.32 per tank of DEF
13.33 tanks of DEF * $22.32 per tank of DEF = $297.53 for DEF over 100,000 miles (5yrs at 20k/yr)

After 5 years at 20k/yr:
Total ED Cost (not including initial purchase price) = ED fuel cost ($10,166.67) + ED DEF ($297.53) + ED MX above HEMI ($600) = $11,064.2
Total non-eTorque Cost = $12,882.35
Total eTorque Cost = $11,526.32

ED vs. non-eTorque = $11,064.2 (total ED cost from above) + $2,720 (initial cost) = $13,784.2 for ED vs. $12,882.35 non-eTorque (savings of $901.85 for HEMI over 5yrs or $15.03 less per month)
ED vs. eTorque = $11,064.2 (total ED cost from above) + $2,550 (initial cost) = $13,614.2 for ED vs. $11,526.32 eTorque (savings of $2,087.88 for HEMI over 5yrs or $34.80 less per month)

The break-even just on gas, initial purchase price and DEF alone (not increased mx) = 112,478 miles @ $2.19/gal of 87 vs. $2.44/gal of diesel
The break-even just on gas, initial purchase price and DEF alone (not increased mx) = 256,070 miles @ $2.19/gal of 87 vs. $2.44/gal of diesel

Gas prices here in TX are even lower ($1.66 for 87 currently and $1.83 for diesel) so the math works out even worse for the diesel. I also used 20k/yr which is more than most people drive so if you drive less, the break even is even longer for ED. At the end of the day, can you eventually break-even for the ED? Sure, but the vast majority of people won't.

But everyone I know with an ED is averaging about 28mpg in their first year, which very well may increase as they break in...and many folks with the hemi are getting lower fuel economy...look at how many fuelly stickers in folks' signatures are 14.3, 15.8 etc

 

[J-Cooz]

But everyone I know with an ED is averaging about 28mpg in their first year, which very well may increase as they break in...and many folks with the hemi are getting lower fuel economy...look at how many fuelly stickers in folks' signatures are 14.3, 15.8 etc

Yep. My ED isn't even broken in yet and I'm averaging 28mpg. On the highway it's right around 30mpg. My 2019 Hemi would struggle to get 20mpg and averaged around 17. So I'm getting approximately 50% better mileage.

I drive 25,000 miles a year easily. Even if the math doesn't work out going almost 900 miles per tank is beautiful and the ED just drives better on the highway (zero downshifting on hills). Diesel fuel is cheaper in Ontario currently as well by about 5-8 cents per litre.

 

[Trooper4]

Yep. My ED isn't even broken in yet and I'm averaging 28mpg. On the highway it's right around 30mpg. My 2019 Hemi would struggle to get 20mpg and averaged around 17. So I'm getting approximately 50% better mileage.

I drive 25,000 miles a year easily. Even if the math doesn't work out going almost 900 miles per tank is beautiful and the ED just drives better on the highway (zero downshifting on hills). Diesel fuel is cheaper in Ontario currently as well by about 5-8 cents per litre.

Diesel where I live in Washington is about a buck higher, so was one of the reasons I didn't get the ED.

 

[SpeedyV]

Great analysis.
Diesel would not make since for me (and I love Diesels), since I drive roughly around 6k miles a year.

And I completely ignored the value of the HEMI fun factor