Silverado 2500 HD Gas - Upgrade or downgrade?

[WXman]

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

I don’t want to buy a new one so I guess I’ll keep my 1500 and keep looking.

 

[CalvinC]

I think the old 6.0s and 6L90 for their reliability (outside of oil consumption), but not one person ever accused them of being powerful or fast.

I had a boss that purchased a Gas 3500s to tow his travel trailer during retirement. He was hopping mad disappointed in this "gift to himself" for what a dog it was.

Yes, I'd keep the Ram. Invest instead in Sway Bar, Shocks - air bags, brakes and tires if needed.

 

[silver billet]

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

I don’t want to buy a new one so I guess I’ll keep my 1500 and keep looking.

The 6 speed, I wouldn't go there. The 10 speed I'd definitely grab. Power can't be reduced to a single peak number that we all fixate on, the 6.6 will have more torque under the curve and will feel stronger towing. With the 10 speed for sure it will out pull the ram 5.7 and probably the 6.4 as well though that will be a closer match. Don't forget that peak torque is also signficantly higher than the 5.7, 464 vs 410. I'd bet it outpulls our rams with just the 6 speed as well.

Edit: also the 6.6 3500 gasser with the proper tow package and basic work truck trim is rated to tow north of 18,000 pounds. I wouldn't try that in the 5.7 no matter the trim or gear ratio.

Edit2: for comparison, a 2014 ram 3500 with 5.7 gasser is rated to tow between 11 and 13 thousand pounds.

And the second they put the 5.7 in a 2500 or 3500 they tune and derate the 5.7, meaning, it can't handle the abuse that the 6.6 can under the same conditions so your HP actually drops to like 370 vs the 401 from the 6.6.

 

[Ramroo]

When moving up to HD, go straight to 1 ton.

 

[WXman]

When moving up to HD, go straight to 1 ton.

That’s what I was thinking too. But I looked up the tow chart from GM’s own website and it is surprising. The 2500 gas can tow more than the 3500 gas (only a couple hundred lbs., likely the difference in weight between the 11.5 and 12.0" axles). The payload gain on the 3500 is less than 500 lbs. If you go diesel then there’s a couple thousand lb. advantage for the 3500, but that’s not really a huge deal either. Surprising though that on the gas trucks the difference between “3/4 ton” and “1 ton” is almost zero on paper.

 

[SpeedyV]

Been thinking about moving up to a HD pickup to make towing my big enclosed trailer easier. Diesel HD trucks are insanely high in price. Even with 150k miles on them, you’re looking at $50k around here. So I opened my search up to gasoline HD trucks as well. I found a 2021 Chevy Silverado 2500HD with the new 6.6 gas engine. Sweet truck, extremely well cared for. Problem is, the 6.6 gas is a 400 HP engine. The axle is a 3.73. The trans is the old 6L90 that’s been around since 2006 and the ratios are really tall. So, I threw that combo into a spreadsheet along side the same info (power, trans ratios, axle ratio) from my Ram 1500. Looks like my Ram has significantly more pulling power in every gear, despite the 3.21 axle ratio. If my truck had the 3.92s it would be a bloodbath. But yeah, power/gearing advantage from 0 to 70 miles per hour. AND my truck is 1,500 lbs. lighter so that increases performance even more over the HD. I get that a HD truck is heavier and therefore in theory should handle/steer better with a trailer but I have a hard time justifying a move up to HD to get worse acceleration, fuel economy, and maneuverability. Sigh…

The Ford gas HD trucks can be had with 430 HP, 10 speed trans, and 4.30 gears which is a stellar combo but they are like finding a needle in a haystack. I can’t find one in my price range anywhere in this entire region.

The Ram HD gas trucks are nice but they seem to be abused on construction sites or work sites and by the time I find them on the used market they’re pretty rough.

I don’t want to buy a new one so I guess I’ll keep my 1500 and keep looking.

You're making me miss my old 3/4-ton 8.1L/Allison. My buddy still has his (in a relatively low mileage 1-ton configuration). No, he's not selling it.

 

[WXman]

Well the Silverado HD gas truck I was looking at sold. And the more I think of it, the less inclined I am to go gas because the pulling power just isn’t an upgrade.

Most times I go to look at a Ram HD with Cummins diesel it sells before I even get there to look at it. Those things sell like hotcakes. But, in the course of my shopping I have gotten to drive all three HD brands with diesels. Ford Powerstroke, GM Duramax, and Ram Cummins. All 2019 or newer, so the latest generations. These are used trucks that typically have 80k to 150k on them after a few years of use. What I’ve noticed is the Duramax seems to be the least reliable of the bunch (no surprise to me). Hard to find them that haven’t had or have issues. CELs, oil leaks, emissions issues, wiring harness issues, etc. Kind of scares me. So I marked those off the list. Started focusing on Ram and Ford. Honestly I have been a Ram/Jeep guy for 20 years but the Ford Super Duty is hard to beat. Aluminum body keeps payload rating up even on the ¾ tons. Powerstroke engine seems to get glowing reviews with lots of them well over 300k miles with almost no issues. Cargo bed is 6’8” so just slightly more volume. More power, better MPG. And I just kind of like how they look. I completely stumbled upon a 2019 F-250 XLT with Powerstroke diesel and 81k miles on the clock yesterday. Wasn’t looking for it, just fell on it. It was sitting in the back of the lot at the local Ford dealer. They said they had just taken it in on trade and hadn’t even run it through service for inspection yet. Before anybody could snag it up (again, these things sell like hotcakes) I asked to drive it and ended up buying it same day.

Look forward to seeing how it pulls and handles my trailer in the real world compared to all the ½ ton trucks I’ve had my entire life, and how daily life is with a HD diesel. Should be interesting. Might shoot some videos. What I will miss about my Ram is the luxury. Ventilated leather, LED lighting, heated steering wheel, super crisp backup cam display, etc. The frills. What I will love about the Super Duty is the power and complete lack of concern when using it as a truck.

 

[HEMIJAKE]

Well the Silverado HD gas truck I was looking at sold. And the more I think of it, the less inclined I am to go gas because the pulling power just isn’t an upgrade.

Most times I go to look at a Ram HD with Cummins diesel it sells before I even get there to look at it. Those things sell like hotcakes. But, in the course of my shopping I have gotten to drive all three HD brands with diesels. Ford Powerstroke, GM Duramax, and Ram Cummins. All 2019 or newer, so the latest generations. These are used trucks that typically have 80k to 150k on them after a few years of use. What I’ve noticed is the Duramax seems to be the least reliable of the bunch (no surprise to me). Hard to find them that haven’t had or have issues. CELs, oil leaks, emissions issues, wiring harness issues, etc. Kind of scares me. So I marked those off the list. Started focusing on Ram and Ford. Honestly I have been a Ram/Jeep guy for 20 years but the Ford Super Duty is hard to beat. Aluminum body keeps payload rating up even on the ¾ tons. Powerstroke engine seems to get glowing reviews with lots of them well over 300k miles with almost no issues. Cargo bed is 6’8” so just slightly more volume. More power, better MPG. And I just kind of like how they look. I completely stumbled upon a 2019 F-250 XLT with Powerstroke diesel and 81k miles on the clock yesterday. Wasn’t looking for it, just fell on it. It was sitting in the back of the lot at the local Ford dealer. They said they had just taken it in on trade and hadn’t even run it through service for inspection yet. Before anybody could snag it up (again, these things sell like hotcakes) I asked to drive it and ended up buying it same day.

Look forward to seeing how it pulls and handles my trailer in the real world compared to all the ½ ton trucks I’ve had my entire life, and how daily life is with a HD diesel. Should be interesting. Might shoot some videos. What I will miss about my Ram is the luxury. Ventilated leather, LED lighting, heated steering wheel, super crisp backup cam display, etc. The frills. What I will love about the Super Duty is the power and complete lack of concern when using it as a truck.

My nephew is selling his older powerstroke (05 or 06, can't remember), and I wish I could justify buying it. His is tuned, studded, deleted, and a southern truck so no rust. I have no experience with the newer ones, but I think you'll be happy with it. The creature comforts are nice to have, but the towing power is just remarkable. My dealer has a new white power wagon with the cummins that I've been drooling over. But..... 91k!

Congratulations!

 

[Ramroo]

My nephew is selling his older powerstroke (05 or 06, can't remember), and I wish I could justify buying it. His is tuned, studded, deleted, and a southern truck so no rust. I have no experience with the newer ones, but I think you'll be happy with it. The creature comforts are nice to have, but the towing power is just remarkable. My dealer has a new white power wagon with the cummins that I've been drooling over. But..... 91k!

Congratulations

I don’t think you can get a power wagon with a Cummins.

 

[HEMIJAKE]

I don’t think you can get a power wagon with a Cummins.

You can for 2023

 

[Ramroo]

News to me.
I tried building one on website and it didn’t show Cummins.
Can get a rebel with Cummins I know.

 

[CalvinC]

Are you thinking of the new Rebel line for the HD's? I recall in that debut they confirmed there would remain to be no Cummins PW, but the Rebel would be close (no front locker or disco sway bars).

 

[HEMIJAKE]

News to me.
I tried building one on website and it didn’t show Cummins.
Can get a rebel with Cummins I know.

Hmm that's weird. My small town dealer has 2 on the lot with a couple more in transit.

New 2023 Ram 2500 REBEL CREW CAB 4X4 6'4 BOX For Sale | Bradford PA

New 2023 Ram 2500, from Bradford Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram FIAT in Bradford, PA, 16701-1823. Call (814) 348-4110 for more information.

www.bradforddodge.net

 

[HEMIJAKE]

Ah crap. You're right. I'm thinking rebel. I got my models messed up My apologies

 

[WXman]

Interesting:

Window sticker was $56,800 on this '19. For fun I just built the identical truck for '23. $68,500.

Ouch.