Sales Tricks while you're sitting at the desk...

[heydre]

I thought it would be interesting to share the sales tricks employed once you're sitting at the desk ready to make a deal. NOT the imaginary loss leaders advertised to get you on the lot, false email deals, or the salesman shuffle but once you've done the test drive, parking lot banter, and now you're in the chair. Try to leave out all the lead up and just drop the tactics on us > and your responses....

1. Oh that car is now a "dealer" car...it's not available. > It's been on the website for a month and is STILL on the website (25% off).
2. How much would you like to pay a month..what could you afford? > I don't talk about payments...I talk about purchase price and then payments are decided by term length/interest/down.
3. Will you be financing with us...how's your credit? > I'll finance the best interest rate from a reputable bank...I have over 700 credit rating.
4. Sign here (multiple times)...it doesn't indicate obligation? > I read each document before signing while affirming verbally the reasons for each paper then I handed it back.

TL;DR> Fake bait truck not available...$44.6k initial on Big Horn...$43k next...$37k my limit...offered $38.7k out the door BUT it now included my $5k down AND the monthly payment was let's say....rounding up....way up.

After chasing down the nonexistent "dealer" truck, I test drove a Tradesman then "reluctantly" upsold myself to a Big Horn. MSRP was $53.6k with a dealer sticker of $44.6k. At the desk, I pointed out the pricing on the previous similar vehicle at $39.9k which drew me in. They reduced to $43k and I hemmed and hawed as I hinted that my limit was $37k upon which he asked how much I was willing to put down ($5k). He disappears to give it a go...

Sales manager comes out with his serious, low tones and tells me how hard he is going to fight for $37k but wants me to sign the bottom of the negotiation outline that says "I will purchase this car and drive it home" (says it's not binding). More waiting....he returns without a word, stares at me, puts his hand out to congratulate me as if we've met my price. I was paranoid so I lean in, shake his hand, and signal my readiness for the math on his shielded worksheet.

He lays it down and I notice the total discount FROM MSRP was now $15.6k ($9k original + $1.6k + $5k to seal the deal) to put the OTD price at $38.7k with TTL/tax/dealer). I was shocked with only 3 hours in and didn't see any red flags as he runs through the rest of the numbers until I get to the amount financed....$38.7k.

Last time I checked...$38.7 minus the $5k= $33.7k financed so he went into his figurometry to avoid what I noted until they had to reveal that they were offering the $38.7k with my $5k down subtracted from the quote so I must have misunderstood. Not to mention the monthly payment after "financing" was waaaaay off. Yeah...so I took the blame without arguing the obvious...now will they call back?

 

[jdmartin]

The 4 square is the big one. There's so many numbers the buyer gets baffled quickly. My father sold cars all his life. Lucky he was a good enough salesman that he didn't have to play dumb games with customers and garnered a loyal following by just being decent and following up with the customers. But a lot of sales guys are either greedy enough to see everything as a short gain or poor salesmen in the first place and have to resort to games to get any sales done.

 

[Love2driveRAM19]

Ha! I think this would become one of the longest threads around if everyone replied!!!

Unfortunately, the tactics they throw at the customers work probably 95% - 98% of the time. I read a great article many years ago called "Confessions of a Car Salesman" by Philip Reed. He was a consumer journalist that went undercover and worked at several dealerships(used) and wrote about experiences. I am trying to find it because it is still in use today--all the tactics you listed plus more!!! He is now an Automotive Expert; just can't find the entire write up online---long but well worth the read if you can find the full article online.

Back when we thought we were able to see the real invoice price it was a great deal at $500 over invoice. The real invoice, true invoice etc...so skewed now to further blur the lines. Gotta play the game--shouldn't have to...but you know.

I had an extra $1k appear on the bottom line of my Bighorn and had to wait for that to be corrected before out the door at $38,400 level 2 plus items listed in my signature. I went in on the evening of the last day of month when they were trying to hit their sales goals for the month. (<----I am sure they had meat on the bone to eat from that sale too)

 

[rrbhokies]

Negotiated a price as a percent off MSRP. Salesman comes back and says done! Get the final number and they added freight back in. I explained that freight is already in the MSRP and he says "we always add back freight."

 

[Willwork4truck]

Even the best % off msrp can fall apart at doc fee time. Ive seen as high as $799 (which is simply extra profit).
Same with all the dealer add ons. Gotta watch those.

This time I kinda’ boxed myself into a corner due to (her) stated color choices (Ivory/Indigo) for her vehicle. That was my own doing and probably doesn't affect 95% of others as this is not my truck, its hers.

In the end we got what we (mostly) wanted (33 gallon tank notwithstanding) and stayed local, which is important to me.

I will say that KVille RAM (NC) didn't pull any of the crap that the high pressure city dealers often do. My experience with a forum advertiser before this purchase (in an effort to get the best price) was more like the “bad dealer” examples.

 

[jastevenson]

Kernersville has a big dealer fee though.

 

[SpeedyV]

I work in a technical sales role, so I'd like to think that I'm adept at recognizing these tactics. It could also be that I'm just paranoid

This thread reminds me of our worst-ever car buying experience. In 2003 or 2004, my wife wanted to purchase a new vehicle. We had narrowed the field to a Toyota Highlander or Saturn VUE, with an outside chance of looking at a Toyota 4Runner if we could get a good deal. At the time, my wife was driving a 2001 Camaro SS (loaded with SLP package), so the deal was dependent on a solid trade-in offer.

We walked into our local Toyota dealership, gave them a shot at evaluating our trade, and started discussions on two vehicles: a used/demo 4Runner and a basic new Highlander. We had obtained very competitive 3rd-party financing in advance. We had very high credit scores and were ready to buy. And right off the bat, we told our salesman exactly what we were willing to pay for 60 months. We didn't care how they worked the numbers to boost our trade-in value, give us a better financing rate, or reduce the pricing on the 4Runner or Highlander. We basically left it up to them to find a way to the number for one of the vehicles of our choice.

From that moment, with a smile, they began to lie, delay, ignore, and in many other ways waste our time. They came back with an offer that exceeded our monthly payment AND the term. They came back with offers matching our monthly payment with very long terms (78-84 months). They came back with much higher monthly payments that met our term. But they never gave us anything that matched our request. After a few hours, on the verge of tears, my wife shouted to get her Camaro keys back or she'd call the police. She'd been asking asking for her car back for at least an hour. I was about to explode (and I'm a 260-lb power lifter).

We went down the road to the Saturn dealership, where they bent over backwards to find the exact model and options my wife wanted anywhere in our region, equipped it with high-end aftermarket leather, and honored "no haggle" pricing with a supplier discount (1% below invoice) plus $1,500 cash back. They admitted that they couldn't give us top dollar for the Camaro, and they didn't want to waste our time. The car was in near-flawless condition, and we quickly sold it to a private party for much more than any dealer would have offered. The difference between our experiences at Toyota and Saturn could not have been more night-and-day. Saturn's purchase and service experience was so good that we were genuinely sad when they went under.

Of course, our best buying experiences have not really involved negotiations. We've ordered new vehicles (with supplier discounts and advertised incentives). We've purchased a vehicle via "Buy it Now" on eBay. These options may not give you the "best" deal, but they are TOTALLY worth it if you can afford to go this route.

That said, I went through a 7-hour negotiation at a Honda dealership to purchase a new Civic Si off the lot. It was the last day of the month, and I was totally willing to walk away. I was only there because the Mazda dealership across the street wouldn't accept my offer on a Mazdaspeed 3. So Honda chose to sell the vehicle to me at cost in order to meet their quota. Mazda called me the next day, and I told them they were too late. You just have to decide what your time is worth!

As I mentioned at the start, I'm in technical sales. I believe in developing relationships that result in "customers for life". I'm more than willing to challenge a customer when I genuinely know what's best for them. But I'm also willing to point a customer to a competitor if that's truly the better option for them. It's all about building trust. I think this is all-too-rare in the car-buying world.

 

[Tundralag]

I have found at least since the internet became big... I will look at cars.com or a site like that.. find the cheapest Ram that I want with all the bells and whistles.
call that place up and make them give you a written offer on THAT vehicle. No trade.. The offer must be legit.. I will then start looking at the local Ram dealers and see if they can beat the price.. I hear all the excuses.. well they are a bigger market we cant discount that much etc etc.. With that offer in hand you can at least get the local dealers down to a bottom dollar..

With my New Longhorn I did the same thing.. The Local dealers laughed at me and said the written offer I had was BS and the dealer would change the deal once I drove there.. and No one could offer 30% off a brand new Ram and give full trade value from NADA...

Two days later I had my new ram in my driveway.. Took it to the same dealer that said I couldn't get one for that price... His mouth hit the floor when I drove in..

I bet In a couple of years when I plan to trade again he will pay better attention if he wants a sale..

 

[heydre]

I have found at least since the internet became big... I will look at cars.com or a site like that.. find the cheapest Ram that I want with all the bells and whistles.
call that place up and make them give you a written offer on THAT vehicle. No trade.. The offer must be legit.. I will then start looking at the local Ram dealers and see if they can beat the price.. I hear all the excuses.. well they are a bigger market we cant discount that much etc etc.. With that offer in hand you can at least get the local dealers down to a bottom dollar..

With my New Longhorn I did the same thing.. The Local dealers laughed at me and said the written offer I had was BS and the dealer would change the deal once I drove there.. and No one could offer 30% off a brand new Ram and give full trade value from NADA...

Two days later I had my new ram in my driveway.. Took it to the same dealer that said I couldn't get one for that price... His mouth hit the floor when I drove in..

I bet In a couple of years when I plan to trade again he will pay better attention if he wants a sale..

Similar experience when I bought my '95 GMC Sierra brand new (stripped with vinyl floors, twill seats, and rollups). I did all the research with the invoice books and a friend who was an auto broker filled me in on all the fees so I had the price down to the nuts (I added $700 profit for them...so generous . I went through thirteen dealers in the SoCal area and was told: that's lower than cost, employees don't get that price, your calculations are wrong, or just GTFO.

Because car sales is often adversarial it relies on wearing down the buyer until you give in and relent on some/most of your demands. Well I'm a stubborn #ss when I think something is possible but I was about to give up. I had a fourteenth dealer left that I only called so I checked my answering machine messages and....he offered the car for LESS than what I was trying for (only $300 over invoice). Of course while closing the deal, I felt like owed them something, so I did get the "paint protection" package (swirls EVERYWHERE) and his son did some aftermarket.

A good deal costs the most in TIME.

 

[heydre]

From that moment, with a smile, they began to lie, delay, ignore, and in many other ways waste our time. They came back with an offer that exceeded our monthly payment AND the term. They came back with offers matching our monthly payment with very long terms (78-84 months). They came back with much higher monthly payments that met our term. But they never gave us anything that matched our request. After a few hours, on the verge of tears, my wife shouted to get her Camaro keys back or she'd call the police. She'd been asking asking for her car back for at least an hour. I was about to explode (and I'm a 260-lb power lifter).

They love to create this environment of obligation, pressure, and manipulation that I'm sure many are swayed by....I often wonder how it's not considered coercion.

 

[Snakes709]

I was hired as a salesmen when i got out of the military. It only lasted 6 days as i couldnt stand becoming something I hated. But those 6 days taught me alot. One of the things is salesman barely make money on the sale of the car. The big chunk the make money off of is all the extra **** they offer you. Ie gap insurence, under coating, extended warranty ect. I did the deal on my 2019 sport and worked out a price which was much better then the other dealership i went to. Took the night to think the offer over and couldnt justify the hike in payments. Went back the next day and told them my payment limit. They got me within $60 of it and i still said i couldnt do that. They said they couldnt go lower so i said “alright, thanks anyways” and started to leave. He then said he will “try something else”. Got me exactly what i wanted.

I knew once i went to finance they would offer me 50 different things. Finance manager greeted me, was a nice guy. Offered me gap insurance, i declined and told him my max payment. Told him i wanted no other offers. He continued to try to get me to buy into extended warranty and gap insurance. I told him no, I cant afford higher payments. After that he just ignored me during the rest of the process, wouldnt talk at all. Just wanted to get me out of there since i didnt want to give them more money. He even made up a ******** excuse of why i couldnt get the 500 air miles that i get when buying a new vehicle because the air miles card was in my wifes name. Called air miles to confirm this and they told me that is ********.

 

[rrbhokies]

I do love their sob stories after you've negotiated a really good deal. Everyone from the salesman to the finance guy love to pull out the piece of paper that shows an invoice price and point out that they just sold you the car at a significant loss. You know d#mn well that they never lose money in the long run with all the incentives and kickbacks they get. But I love just giving them a big ole grin from cheek to cheek when they show it. It's the very few times that they didn't go through that dog and pony show that I had buyers remorse that maybe I didn't make as great of a deal as I could have.......

 

[MJB4450]

I could go on for pages with tricks and scams especially from when I lived in Las Vegas but I'll just tell of my BEST car buying experience. This was back in 1985 at a dealership called Jimmy GMC in Tucson AZ. Of course they did not last long being so honest and the bigger multi brand dealership owner bought them out. But they used to advertise that they charge $100 over invoice, no hassle. I went in expecting a scam but they had the Monrooney sticker on one window and the invoice on another window. Salesman comes out, I ask for a test drive. He gives me the keys and says come back in 15 minutes or we'll call the cops. I take the drive, return and ask if I can actually get an appraisal for my trade in without having to fill out any paperwork to buy. Sure, no problem. They take my trade for a few minures, come back and gave me a reasonable price. Then I ask if I can get the financing approved before I actually buy the truck. I've been scammed too many times in my younger years with the old "we know you'll be approved" and then hit me up for thousands more down after I already took the vehicle home. So they say sure just fill out the financing form and gve us $50 deposit if you want us to hold the truck otherwise it will still be for sale. I fill out the form, give them $50 and they say we'll call you tomorrow. Next day they call up and tell me I'm financed, if I want the truck come down and pick it up otherwise come down and pick up my $50 deposit. Went to pick up the truck and at that time signed the purchase contract, no add on's no pitch for an extended warranty. In and out.

 

[rrbhokies]

He continued to try to get me to buy into extended warranty and gap insurance. I told him no, I cant afford higher payments. After that he just ignored me during the rest of the process, wouldnt talk at all. Just wanted to get me out of there since i didnt want to give them more money. He even made up a ******** excuse of why i couldnt get the 500 air miles that i get when buying a new vehicle because the air miles card was in my wifes name. Called air miles to confirm this and they told me that is ********.

Yeah, I've had some quiet moments in the Finance office, as I almost never buy any add-ons. Their tactics can be harsh. At one point with this truck, the finance guy told me 3.99% for 72 months. I said I had a check from the bank for 3.59% (which I really did). He then came up with a better rate at 3.39% and proceeded to talk about discounting all the warranties, etc. At one point, he made reference that the interest rate was tied to me getting one or more of the packages. he claimed that the 3.39% (from a major bank) was discounted as long as I bought the dealer's warranties and service plans. The initial forms he printed after declining all the extra stuff showed 3.59%. I told him that he cannot tease me with a lower rate to upsell their ****. It got very quiet, and without any further words, he adjusted the rate, reprinted the forms and made me speed-sign my signatures to get me the hell out of his office. Guess I won't be getting a thank you card from that guy!

 

[Snakes709]

The thing i hate the most is you make an offer and they claim they gotta “run it by the sales manager”. I was trading in my srt-10 ram for a evolutionx. Already been to a bunch of dealerships, did my homework on what my truck and the evo was worth. Made the offer and the guy was like “i dont think my manager will approve this but let me see”. He leaves, i follow him at a distance. He went and got a drink of water, looked at his cell phone and came back. Then claimed his manager wouldnt go for it and gave me a counter offer. I told him i just saw him go get a drink of water and didnt talk to anyone lol.

 

[heydre]

Car salesmen and drug addicts....experts in truth management.

 

[ppowell1983]

I thought it would be interesting to share the sales tricks employed once you're sitting at the desk ready to make a deal. NOT the imaginary loss leaders advertised to get you on the lot, false email deals, or the salesman shuffle but once you've done the test drive, parking lot banter, and now you're in the chair. Try to leave out all the lead up and just drop the tactics on us > and your responses....

1. Oh that car is now a "dealer" car...it's not available. > It's been on the website for a month and is STILL on the website (25% off).
2. How much would you like to pay a month..what could you afford? > I don't talk about payments...I talk about purchase price and then payments are decided by term length/interest/down.
3. Will you be financing with us...how's your credit? > I'll finance the best interest rate from a reputable bank...I have over 700 credit rating.
4. Sign here (multiple times)...it doesn't indicate obligation? > I read each document before signing while affirming verbally the reasons for each paper then I handed it back.

TL;DR> Fake bait truck not available...$44.6k initial on Big Horn...$43k next...$37k my limit...offered $38.7k out the door BUT it now included my $5k down AND the monthly payment was let's say....rounding up....way up.

After chasing down the nonexistent "dealer" truck, I test drove a Tradesman then "reluctantly" upsold myself to a Big Horn. MSRP was $53.6k with a dealer sticker of $44.6k. At the desk, I pointed out the pricing on the previous similar vehicle at $39.9k which drew me in. They reduced to $43k and I hemmed and hawed as I hinted that my limit was $37k upon which he asked how much I was willing to put down ($5k). He disappears to give it a go...

Sales manager comes out with his serious, low tones and tells me how hard he is going to fight for $37k but wants me to sign the bottom of the negotiation outline that says
"I will purchase this car and drive it home" (says it's not binding). More waiting....he returns without a word, stares at me, puts his hand out to congratulate me as if we've met my price. I was paranoid so I lean in, shake his hand, and signal my readiness for the math on his shielded worksheet.

He lays it down and I notice the total discount FROM MSRP was now $15.6k ($9k original + $1.6k + $5k to seal the deal) to put the OTD price at $38.7k with TTL/tax/dealer). I was shocked with only 3 hours in and didn't see any red flags as he runs through the rest of the numbers until I get to the amount financed....$38.7k.

Last time I checked...$38.7 minus the $5k= $33.7k financed so he went into his figurometry to avoid what I noted until they had to reveal that they were offering the $38.7k with my $5k down subtracted from the quote so I must have misunderstood. Not to mention the monthly payment after "financing" was waaaaay off. Yeah...so I took the blame without arguing the obvious...now will they call back?

I tell the dealer that I am following a process, if we reach an agreement in every segment I will drive home with the vehicle that day. If we don't come to an agreement on any of the sections then we part way friends and wish each other the best. Each segment is separated from the others, payment and downpayment doesn't have any bearing on what the sale price of the vehicle is or what the value of my trade is. The trick is that you have to be honest with yourself in what you're willing to pay and what the value of your trade is. I have seen too many times where people over value their trades.

1. Price of their vehicle
2. Trade-in Allowance for my trade (If I have one)
3. Financing and payment terms
4. add ons / extended warranties.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Yes and at the end of the day its a thing, and striving to get the very best bottom price can give you an ulcer.
I have a “whats fair” attitude, if I overpaid in my first new car in 1982 (I did), whats it matter? Spilled milk so ti speak. I may whine a bit about missing out on the June rebates but that wasnt the dealers fault.

I have an outstanding truck that my spouse really likes, due to getting it in April my son and wife rode in it and bought theirs (in June) so they are thrilled.
I can walk into the dealership and theres no hard feelings/remorse/bad taste. Thats worth the few thousand I overspent. (It has to be, its reality...)

 

[jdmartin]

Yes and at the end of the day its a thing, and striving to get the very best bottom price can give you an ulcer.
I have a “whats fair” attitude, if I overpaid in my first new car in 1982 (I did), whats it matter? Spilled milk so ti speak. I may whine a bit about missing out on the June rebates but that wasnt the dealers fault.

I have an outstanding truck that my spouse really likes, due to getting it in April my son and wife rode in it and bought theirs (in June) so they are thrilled.
I can walk into the dealership and theres no hard feelings/remorse/bad taste. Thats worth the few thousand I overspent. (It has to be, its reality...)

I like how you think. I love saving money as much as the next guy, but some people will kill themselves trying to save every extra cent. I feel like my time is worth something and as long as I feel like the price was fair and I'm happy, who cares if I didn't get the rock bottom price.

 

[MJB4450]

Yes and at the end of the day its a thing, and striving to get the very best bottom price can give you an ulcer.
I have a “whats fair” attitude, if I overpaid in my first new car in 1982 (I did), whats it matter? Spilled milk so ti speak. I may whine a bit about missing out on the June rebates but that wasnt the dealers fault.

I have an outstanding truck that my spouse really likes, due to getting it in April my son and wife rode in it and bought theirs (in June) so they are thrilled.
I can walk into the dealership and theres no hard feelings/remorse/bad taste. Thats worth the few thousand I overspent. (It has to be, its reality...)

I have a similar attitude. Bickering over price at length is seedy to me. The way I've been buying for many years is go online, check my "preferred" dealers (those that don't butcher cars with certain preloaded add on's and have good reviews) and see what they have and what is inbound. When I find something I want I email them so I get an internet manager not some shark trolling the lot. I ask for a quote. I frequently buy from Phoenix 150 miles away so I mention that so they know I'm serious and that they have one shot at me. I usually save a few grand above the discounts where I live. When I get there I kind of have to talk to the salesman as you would a pet since they both have short attention spans. I tell him I'm not playing games or wasting a lot of time. There are other dealerships on my list. I know they're in business to make money so this is what I consider a fair deal. I will pay MSRP minus all the rebates, advertised dealer discounts, USAA certificate etc. I will not pay for window tint or anything else. They will pay me KBB for my trade. I will go through one of two financial institutions at X% for 72 months. The monthly payment will be right around $xxx.00. You will not shotgun out credit apps to umpteen institutions. Yes or no. I will give them ONE back and forth with the "manager". Then I get up to go. But usually I get what I asked for, sometimes they even find more discounts.