REV vs Ramcharger - who would buy a REV?

[cpetku]

Almost all shops around here will not work on high voltage vehicles. They said it's a liability concern.
Also replacing cells in an EV pack is different then doing a brake job, different skill set.


That's a lot to unpack.

Do you not realize how big an EV battery is compared to a cell phone?
A single EV has more battery in it then every single piece of tech I have owned in my entire life by a long shot.

Also not every cellphone uses a lithium battery.
And lots of old phones are already recycled but instead of getting throws away are taken apart for working parts battery included. Parts like TouchPad, fingerprint scanners, usb ports, cables, etc are ripped out of old recycled phones and sold/installed into phones that are damaged.

There is no reason to junk a phone because you cracked the screen, you can just get it repaired as long as there are parts available which for most phones there are not. Now image that on a larger scale as you were just posting about...
Recycling phones is a big deal, dont you remember the Samsung Note law suit catching fire in people's pockets and just sitting around because of the battery?

All I'm saying is the same groups that are arguing that EV's will kill the planet should be arguing against modern cell phones. They both serve a purpose at a cost.

I have personally reworked several iPhones for battery and screen issues, but I know that many use a cracked screen as an excuse to get the latest tech. I see the trade-in programs when one buys a new phone as a benefit to reduce the number going into land fills. I also worked in consumer electronics. Some companys had a "Nail Test" for lithium battery packs whereby a drill press was used to force a nail into the battery pack after which the area was vacated. Smoke and heat were allowed (unavoidable), flames were not. If the battery burst into flames the design was rejected.

That said maybe I have stirred to pot too much in defending the EV industrys right to exist. Ultimately it should be driven by market demand and hopefully survives in one form (Li) or another (H2).

 

[jimothy]

Do you not realize how big an EV battery is compared to a cell phone?

To emphasize this point: the Ramcharger’s battery is equivalent to almost 5,400 iPhones 15 Pro Max (the iPhone with the largest battery).

The extended range F-150 Lightning: 7,700 iPhones. Base Telsa Model 3: 3,500 iPhones.

 

[cpetku]

I'm glad I didn't compare all the plastics in a truck (interior, tires, insulation, o-rings, weather stripping...) to a discpicable plastic straw. That would have really set-off a debate between the east and west coast over killing the planet. I doubt anyone in California would be able to buy a RAM 1500 after that.

Yes, I once risked jail time including a plastic straw in a package sent to one of our offices in California. Luckily it wasn't found when it went through customs.

Admins, Feel free to delete (the post or me entirely), I have an off sense of humor tonight I've already been to FB Jail once, I guess I'm kind of a habitual offender...

 

[cpetku]

I wonder if someone replaces a RAM battery pack maybe they should drop it off at Home Depot since they seem to have a handle on this...

I may not have been too far off with that comment. It looks like batteries from cell phones, power tools and EV's all go to the same place. Since they get recycled, there is little to no argument against end of life, just the initial mining of materials. I would expect EV batteries are more likely to be recycled than consumer electronics since it takes a trained shop to work with these and the used batteries will have value. It will be interesting to see how Li-Cycle seperates the Lithium, Nickel and Cobalt and if that results in environmental hazards or if it is well managed. That said Li-Cycle apears to have some financial concerns based upon recent Investor news releases.

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[Rammit]

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Yeah, the mandating part of it is completely wrong.
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But charging road-use fees based on vehicle weight & miles traveled IS the most fair way to have every user pay their share of the upkeep.
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Pure and simple, it's physics, combined with personal responsibliity: The heavier a vehicle is, the more miles that vehicle travels, the more that vehicle owner should pay, because that vehicle is inherently "using up" more of the life of the roadway.
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The sad part, is, it's become a political issue rather than the logistical issue it should have always been. Physics is physics and personal responsibility is just that, personal responsibility. The only problem is, elected officials are devoid of good sense, so they come up with ill-advised solutions that were wrong from the get-go, and sadly, frustratingly, we have to live with them.
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Totally agree. We have only seen the top of the iceberg on the political fallout of all this EV talk. There is already buzz about charging people with higher incomes more for their electricity to offset the folks who will think it’s unfair that their electricity usage and costs are going to go up. This EV push is about control of what you buy, where you can go and how to take more from the top to buy more votes from people at the bottom. Nothing to do with saving the planet, but all about implementing more socialism

 

[theblet]

Totally agree. We have only seen the top of the iceberg on the political fallout of all this EV talk. There is already buzz about charging people with higher incomes more for their electricity to offset the folks who will think it’s unfair that their electricity usage and costs are going to go up. This EV push is about control of what you buy, where you can go and how to take more from the top to buy more votes from people at the bottom. Nothing to do with saving the planet, but all about implementing more socialism

Guess it’s not from the middle out like he said

 

[go-ram]

Totally agree. We have only seen the top of the iceberg on the political fallout of all this EV talk. There is already buzz about charging people with higher incomes more for their electricity to offset the folks who will think it’s unfair that their electricity usage and costs are going to go up. This EV push is about control of what you buy, where you can go and how to take more from the top to buy more votes from people at the bottom. Nothing to do with saving the planet, but all about implementing more socialism

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The main point of my previous post was that the ONLY fair way to charge vehicle fees is based on (1) MILES DRIVEN and (2) WEIGHT OF VEHICLE. Technically speaking, those are by far the most important two factors that determine the actual wear-and-tear a given vehicle imparts on the roadways.
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My intent was NOT to further political discussion, rather it was to point out there is a fair, logical, technically correct way to approach vehicle use fees, compared to the government's current ways of doing it. But that requires all parties to keep their political viewpoints in check and have an honest discussion based on facts, i.e. a combination of engineering and actual cost data.
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[Cueva del Osos]

Now that they've announced the Ramcharger, who would buy a REV instead of a Ramcharger?

I mean, if you just want/need a truck for around town, the 145 mile electric-only range in a Ramcharger should be adequate for just about anybody. (but, of course, not EVERYONE, I understand)

And if you are EVER going to use your truck for towing or road trips, why would you choose a pure EV truck, instead of the Ramcharger?

I mean, I guess maybe there are some people who might tow something not that heavy - like a boat - and really just to rivers or lakes or the ocean, which destinations are not that far away from their home. So, the REV's range (whatever it turns out to be while actually towing) is still adequate - for them and their needs.

But, all in all, it seems like the number of people who would actually choose a REV over buying a Ramcharger would be a really small number. Like, to the point of asking if they should even take the REV to production at all.

Yes, there are people now who are buying the F150 Lightning and the Rivian truck. But, none of those people had an option for a truck like the Ramcharger. I speculate that many of those people would have chosen something like the Ramcharger instead, if they had had the option. So, how big is that market REALLY once the Ramcharger is widely available?

In the original announcements of the REV, they talked about offering it in the future with a range-extender option. I was expecting the REV to be a pure EV or an option to order a REV with (probably) a smaller battery pack and a gas or diesel generator onboard to extend the range. Instead, the Ramcharger is NOT a REV. It's a 1500 DT (in appearance and basic features) that is electric with an onboard generator.

This not at all what I would call a "REV with a range extender option". I like it. I want one (a Ramcharger). But, I can no longer see how the REV is a viable product in the next 2 or 3 years.

Agreed….just picked up my Ltd after having two cracked exhaust manifolds replaced (yay for full extended warranty!) and asked my service guy if they had any advance info on REV or Ramcharger (he knows I want the Ramcharger BAD) and he said ”no, but the REV won’t be around long enough to worry about it”.

 

[theblet]

Agreed….just picked up my Ltd after having two cracked exhaust manifolds replaced (yay for full extended warranty!) and asked my service guy if they had any advance info on REV or Ramcharger (he knows I want the Ramcharger BAD) and he said ”no, but the REV won’t be around long enough to worry about it”.

Makes sense about the REV. Guess they learned from Ford’s mistakes

 

[go-ram]

Makes sense about the REV. Guess they learned from Ford’s mistakes

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Tavares (CEO of Stellantis) was one of the first big auto executives to say "there's no way the world can go to EVs on a crash program, it just won't work" (my paraphrasing). So I give Tavares credit for having the good sense and the huevos to say from the get-go that the radical greenies had gone overboard where EVs are concerned. Clearly, with that mindset, Tavares would not have approved halting all ICE vehicle development, he would have insisted his teams design for both EV and ICE vehicles, and for flexible manufacturing allowing both on the same assembly line. To a large degree, Stellantis has done just that in America.
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That said, there are many reasons that SOME people would still want a Rev, here are some that I can think of right off the top of my head:
1) A certain percentage of Americans, right or wrong, fundamentally believe that EVs are 100% the answer to saving the globe from "climate change". It's like a religion to those folks, and they can't be convinced otherwise. I'm gonna take a wild guess that's 3% of American adults.
2) A business owner that stays mostly local may well consider a Rev because the vast majority of the truck's use is well within the Rev's range, they can write it off as a business expense, and theoretically the Rev will require much less maintenance than an ICE vehicle. Staying out of the shop is a HUGE deal to a small-business owner.
3) Some people (I'll guess this one is 10% of American adults) will do whatever they can to get as much free as they can. So they'll keep the truck's window sticker below the gov'ts $80k limit so they can get the federal and state rebates, and most employers of 100 or more people have already installed courtesy EV chargers for their employees' benefit, so the freebie hogs will think they've got it make in the shade by effectively not paying much at all for their "fuel" (i.e. electrical energy).
4) A lot of potential Rev buyers likely will be "early adopters", not necessarily your traditional truck buyer. For them it's a cool toy, as well as a way to "virtue signal". I.e. the same folks who buy Teslas but want a truck for occasional truck use, or as a novelty because they're bored with their Teslas.
5) Ford Lightning buyers who really liked the idea of a BEV pickup but feel they got burned by the limited range of the Lightning.
6) For some people (what? maybe another 10% of American adults?) think hybrids are just plain stupid because hybrids have the complexity of both EV and ICE vehicles combined, i.e. a hybrid is the worst of both worlds, but they feel EV is the future.
7) Battery technology will advance fairly rapidly in the next 5-10 years, which could well make a BEV half-ton pickup viable for a much larger segment of users.
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In other words, a few percent here, a few percent there, pretty soon it all adds up to just enough potential market for Stellantis to want to keep their options open. They'd be absolutely stupid to not do anything with an EV half-ton, because they could well get caught flat-footed if regulations get tightened again that would effectively force people to buy BEVs, or if there's a battery breakthrough in five years. Plus, given that Rivian, Ford, GMC, Chevy all have BEV pickups, Ram basically has to have one, too, just so no one passes on Ram because their selection is weaker.
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