Recovery gear advice - Alternatives to a permanent winch

[User_21361]

With the pandemic in full swing, the family and I (wife and young kids) have been using every weekend to do some light offroading and picnics. Typically, we will drive to semi secluded spots, setup camp and I'll sneak off by myself for about 30 min to do some damage while the kids eat (my wife is still a bit terrified of offroading at speed ). This mainly consists of dried lake beds and fire roads. The spots we tend to frequent are not overly crowded (usually ta least 3-4 others near by). My anxiety over self recovery is increasing as our boldness and desire for isolation is growing. Having a infant, I can't really walk out hours to get help. Ive been mapping out my current payload and with my normal gear + people I have about 500lbs left in my capacity. I am currently considering how I would self recover if I got stuck. Ive looked at all the fancy winch plates/new bumpers etc but I'm not sure I want to eat at least 175 lbs of my payload for a winch that will get used 1 time a year at most (right now). Also, this is my DD and any weight reduction is a good thing. Being able to recover others is a cool goal, but not really what im after. I'm also not too worried about the cost, but do want value for the money (ie buy a cheaper winch isnt the right path).

Currently carry:
- Maxtrax boards
- snatch strap
- soft shackles
- Shovel
- Sand in winter (sandbags for extra weight in the bed).
- satellite messenger

Options:
- Hilift jack - There is a 5000 lb limit (7000 lb tested limit) for winching. The concern here is that my truck is close to 7k lbs (probably about 6300 with normal gear and people). However, if in neutral and not exceptionally stuck, I should not need 7000lbs of force to winch myself out. This would also aid in other kinds of recovery (flat tire) and only weighs 30 lbs.
- Winch - Easily the "right" choice, low frequency value for the money (obviously super high value if REALLY needed once), heavy, requires more expensive options to even mount it.
- A "clever idea" I had was using a hitch mounted winch plate. Toss the winch in the bed when we go offroading but save the payload when its not needed. Not sure how dumb this is either.

Also, I recognize that offroading of any kind alone has risks, but I have accepted that as reality until I can find friends that my family can tolerate for that duration and frequency of time (and can tolerate us) . What are other folks using for recovery? Am I over thinking it? Is the hi-lift a very dumb idea? Am I missing something?

 

[hunter1234]

I do not do a lot of off road anymore but do get in a few spots that require a winch to pull me out, pull a tree stump or pull someone else out. For years I have used a Tuff Stuff 12,500 lb winch mounted to a hitch plate, the winch is water proof and it came with a cable but I switched the faring and installed a synthetic rope (same strength but a lot less weight). Added their 22 foot mobile wire kit that that connects to the battery and requires no hard wire or permanent wiring on the truck. I have three tree saver straps, three snatch pulleys and four shackles. The winch does have a remote and a wired control. I have pulled trucks out of the ditch, yanked stumps and logs out of the woods and I use it to pull my dock out each year (just move the winch, the mounting plate has handles, to the beach, carry a battery down there and it is as easy as it can be - the beach can not be accessed by the truck). I carry all the accessories in a canvas bag so it is easy to transport them, it has saved me a few times. The winch may not be a Ramsey but from my experience has held up as well for my jobs and cost a fraction of the price - granted mine is not part of a trunk bumper and only used about 10 times a year and usually pulling stuff that weighs less than the truck - though it has pulled both my 2016 and 2020 1500 Eco diesels with the 6'4 beds easily . When not in use or I do not expect to use it, it sits in my garage. I have even mounted a receiver plate on a trailer and on a pole (at the beach) that the unit just fits in, though I have strapped the winch to trees in the woods and that worked also - just need a battery within 20 or so feet. The big help is the snatch pulleys and shackles as I can pull from any angle and increase the pull depending on how I hook up the pulleys. That would be my rig.

 

[zj4x4]

Glad someone asked this...I had the same conundrum. Based on what @hunter1234 mentioned I did some research and found this hitch-connected winch mount: https://www.amazon.com/Stuff-Portable-Winch-Mobile-Receiver/dp/B01GUIJSYO

It looks like it would fit just about any hitch, which is nice. Is there any data on the acceptable pull load on the hitch? I assume it would be different than the max towing capacity (11,220 on my build) since that weight assumes that the load has easily-rolling wheels, which would obviously not be the case in a winch situation.

 

[Rollint]

you might think about getting a kinetic recovery rope as well...it is a big heavy truck and this come in handy if you need a smaller vehicle (wrangler, etc.) to recover you. This doesn't really help with self-recovery, but something to think about

 

[User_21361]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm leaning more and more towards hitch mount or hi-lift jack. I was dangerously close to pulling the trigger on the Vice designs mount last night. I did a test run for weight on my front bumper using 160 lbs (80lbs for the mount and 80 for the winch) in dumbbells. I lost 1/2" of height. I would either have to get new springs for my coilovers or a different lift to accommodate the weight which turns this into even more of a mess (that I spent a ton of $ and time dialing it in to get the lift). I may swap the springs when I have to take them off to rebuild, but I'm not in a hurry to do that now.

Regarding pull load on the hitch, the weak point I have heard is the pin itself. Assuming its rated for more than the winch, it SHOULD be fine. Obviously rear mounted is more limiting (cant use it to really get to places, only out of places), but may be the right idea for now.

Looking forward to more responses. Happy to hear I'm not the only one with this dilemma.

 

[hunter1234]

on an old 2004 ram I did mount a front hitch plate receiver on the frame, could have moved the winch front and back. I actually used it for pushing very large trailers into tough spots, not sure you could do this with the new ones. Also with all the new cameras, and trailer controls not much of a need for that type of set up, back in the day it use to be only the rear view and side mirrors and it was just easier to hookup and direct for a short distance from a front hitch. As mentioned above, I believe the hitch pin is the weak part, I purchased a 10,000 lb rated pin, under the winch capacity but above the weight I would pull and about the most I would want on the truck receiver. I have pulled the truck forward by configuring the pulleys, basically one slightly in back of the truck, one on the side and one in front - had trees at all points I could hook to. The winch has 90 feet of rope so it worked and only though some mud so not a serious pull, would not recommend this pulley set up for pulling up a serious grade, heavy load or over rocks. The other option I have used is moving the winch to a tree in front and pull the truck - as mentioned you can move the winch anywhere as long as you can hook up to the battery, I put one of the recover straps around the winch mounting plate and then around a tree. The 22 foot mobile kit basically a winch connection on one end, 22 feet of 2 gauge wire like jumper cables and battery clamps on the other end - works well for this.

 

[hunter1234]

Just for safety I should mention, from my old rock climbing days, if I was still doing that I would not use this setup, though I likely would not do it in this truck, I had a modified jeep, that was small, front winch, and the pulls were almost always from the front getting over boulders as you shined the skid plates. It was also raised with specialized tires and suspension. We also always went with a group of vehicles. A long time ago and a past life.

 

[LaxDfns15]

I'm not helping much in terms of decision, but you said your truck is at least 7k pounds... GVWR for our trucks is 7100 pounds. That means you're off-roading at capacity, which is not advisable. If you're pushing your comfort limits I'd say go with a winch, but if you just want it for peace of mind I'd say the Hi-Lift.

 

[User_21361]

I'm not helping much in terms of decision, but you said your truck is at least 7k pounds... GVWR for our trucks is 7100 pounds. That means you're off-roading at capacity, which is not advisable. If you're pushing your comfort limits I'd say go with a winch, but if you just want it for peace of mind I'd say the Hi-Lift.

Yeah, I realized my mistake on that front last night as well, I’m definitely under 7k. I will update the top thread.

I think peace of mind is the right way of looking at it. I’m not hoping to go new places yet. Just pull my self out of bad places I shouldn’t have gone

 

[User_21361]

on an old 2004 ram I did mount a front hitch plate receiver on the frame, could have moved the winch front and back. I actually used it for pushing very large trailers into tough spots, not sure you could do this with the new ones. Also with all the new cameras, and trailer controls not much of a need for that type of set up, back in the day it use to be only the rear view and side mirrors and it was just easier to hookup and direct for a short distance from a front hitch. As mentioned above, I believe the hitch pin is the weak part, I purchased a 10,000 lb rated pin, under the winch capacity but above the weight I would pull and about the most I would want on the truck receiver. I have pulled the truck forward by configuring the pulleys, basically one slightly in back of the truck, one on the side and one in front - had trees at all points I could hook to. The winch has 90 feet of rope so it worked and only though some mud so not a serious pull, would not recommend this pulley set up for pulling up a serious grade, heavy load or over rocks. The other option I have used is moving the winch to a tree in front and pull the truck - as mentioned you can move the winch anywhere as long as you can hook up to the battery, I put one of the recover straps around the winch mounting plate and then around a tree. The 22 foot mobile kit basically a winch connection on one end, 22 feet of 2 gauge wire like jumper cables and battery clamps on the other end - works well for this.

Thanks for the helpful info, this does seem like a reasonable approach. I’ll have to look more into power solutions

Just for safety I should mention, from my old rock climbing days, if I was still doing that I would not use this setup, though I likely would not do it in this truck, I had a modified jeep, that was small, front winch, and the pulls were almost always from the front getting over boulders as you shined the skid plates. It was also raised with specialized tires and suspension. We also always went with a group of vehicles. A long time ago and a past life.

Definitely agree here, I don’t intend this as a means of getting over/through obstacles that I can’t do without the winch. It’s more a safety net for things I thought I could do but couldn’t haha

 

[User_21361]

Hi lift on it’s way. I got the extreme version for a little over 100$ on Amazon. Seemed like a cheap and reasonable thing for me to test in driveway.

Thanks everyone for the input, I’ll post back once I test it out

 

[Snack409]

Just spend the coin on a good winch and a factory bumper compat winch plate like the Vice designs. Just accept the weight addition...which is not bad with a synthetic line winch. If you get stuck, you will be winching all day long with a Hi-lift. You only get 48-60 inches of Hi-lift to use at a time until you have to readjust. It’s not the safest machine to use either. If you are using the Hi-lift to jack up your truck then the only safe way is using the rear hitch receiver unless you have true rock sliders or an aftermarket bumper. There is no other safe location on a stock truck. You should also consider getting a bottle jack. A winch, max trax, bottle jack or two all best bet. Hi-lift jack as backup. I’m going Warn VR EVO 12K synthetic using factory bumper mount by Vice Designs, 6 ton bottle jack, Maxtrax....and my cheap *** Harbor Freight farm jack as a backup/reserve.

 

[User_21361]

Just spend the coin on a good winch and a factory bumper compat winch plate like the Vice designs. Just accept the weight addition...which is not bad with a synthetic line winch. If you get stuck, you will be winching all day long with a Hi-lift. You only get 48-60 inches of Hi-lift to use at a time until you have to readjust. It’s not the safest machine to use either. If you are using the Hi-lift to jack up your truck then the only safe way is using the rear hitch receiver unless you have true rock sliders or an aftermarket bumper. There is no other safe location on a stock truck. You should also consider getting a bottle jack. A winch, max trax, bottle jack or two all best bet. Hi-lift jack as backup. I’m going Warn VR EVO 12K synthetic using factory bumper mount by Vice Designs, 6 ton bottle jack, Maxtrax....and my cheap *** Harbor Freight farm jack as a backup/reserve.

Thanks for the input. As I mentioned, permanent payload weight is my chief concern. This truck plays a jack of all trades roll in my life (family car, off-road car, hauling stuff, towing) and requires flexibility. I’m being extremely selective regarding what gets bolted on. Adding 160+ lbs with a winch and mount makes my truck less functional day to day to instead optimize for off-roading which accounts for less than 10% of the mileage I put in. For example, if my kids were older I would get rid of my running boards (100 lbs) haha. The only other permanent mods I have are the locker down floor safe (23 lbs - storing my nuke launch codes etc), incremental weight from new wheels and fox shocks (30ish lbs), and dethloff skid plate (42 lbs). Everything else can be removed when I want to load up the bed. All of those installed items get daily use while the winch, does not. It may be a different story if this was exclusively an off-road rig or had infinite payload. I imagine I’m not the only person with similar constraints based on the comments above.

The best weight optimization I’ve found with a winch is the ADD stealth bumper which is only about 40lbs over stock with the winch plate. The Vice mount is about 90 from my research. If I end up doing more off-roading, I may look into this (though the light bar may offset a decent portion of the weight savings). I’ll try the hilift and see how it works out. I only plan to winch with it, not use it as a jack. I may hate it and figure out I need a winch. Even then, I’ll probably get a hitch mount for the reasons listed above. I’ll certainly post back if I do so others can learn from my (potential) mistake.

I hope you enjoy your setup!

 

[WareWolf]

How about a Bog Out recovery kit, and maybe some recovery boards?

 

[philodog]

My 2 cents from years of offroading: winches are way over rated. They look cool but they are rarely used and you're already aware of the weight issues and they often don't work when you need them. If you go the winch route do the portable setup. You said you're not going extreme rock crawling where you need a winch to get over obstacles so if you do get stuck you're most likely going to want to be pulled back, not forward. But unless you're going where no one else is, having a strap and shackles means someone else can always pull you out. I'm not saying winches don't have their uses but probably 90% of them never get used. I understand the desire to be covered for every situation but proper tire pressure, recovery boards, shovel and cautious driving will keep you out of the vast majority of trouble. Oh yeah, I carry a small floor jack, an extra bottle jack and boards to put under them in sand, snow or mud. And don't forget a good air compressor! And do some real life practice with the Hilift. They take some experience to get the most out of them. They're kind of tricky and very slow.

 

[Dave08]

With the pandemic in full swing, the family and I (wife and young kids) have been using every weekend to do some light offroading and picnics. Typically, we will drive to semi secluded spots, setup camp and I'll sneak off by myself for about 30 min to do some damage while the kids eat (my wife is still a bit terrified of offroading at speed ). This mainly consists of dried lake beds and fire roads. The spots we tend to frequent are not overly crowded (usually ta least 3-4 others near by). My anxiety over self recovery is increasing as our boldness and desire for isolation is growing. Having a infant, I can't really walk out hours to get help. Ive been mapping out my current payload and with my normal gear + people I have about 500lbs left in my capacity. I am currently considering how I would self recover if I got stuck. Ive looked at all the fancy winch plates/new bumpers etc but I'm not sure I want to eat at least 175 lbs of my payload for a winch that will get used 1 time a year at most (right now). Also, this is my DD and any weight reduction is a good thing. Being able to recover others is a cool goal, but not really what im after. I'm also not too worried about the cost, but do want value for the money (ie buy a cheaper winch isnt the right path).

Currently carry:
- Maxtrax boards
- snatch strap
- soft shackles
- Shovel
- Sand in winter (sandbags for extra weight in the bed).
- satellite messenger

Options:
- Hilift jack - There is a 5000 lb limit (7000 lb tested limit) for winching. The concern here is that my truck is close to 7k lbs (probably about 6300 with normal gear and people). However, if in neutral and not exceptionally stuck, I should not need 7000lbs of force to winch myself out. This would also aid in other kinds of recovery (flat tire) and only weighs 30 lbs.
- Winch - Easily the "right" choice, low frequency value for the money (obviously super high value if REALLY needed once), heavy, requires more expensive options to even mount it.
- A "clever idea" I had was using a hitch mounted winch plate. Toss the winch in the bed when we go offroading but save the payload when its not needed. Not sure how dumb this is either.

Also, I recognize that offroading of any kind alone has risks, but I have accepted that as reality until I can find friends that my family can tolerate for that duration and frequency of time (and can tolerate us) . What are other folks using for recovery? Am I over thinking it? Is the hi-lift a very dumb idea? Am I missing something?

Hi, it is best of having a winch when you need it the most, than not having one. I have the same dilemma when camping with my kids because there's only about 500lbs of payload left on my truck. With that in mind, I went with a lightweight winch at about 19lbs only @4500lbs capacity. I also sneak off for off-roading and having the perfect winch gives me that peace of mind and confidence whenever I get stuck in a tough situation. I have had to use it a few times already and I find it really important since I'm alone during those times. You can check several lightweight best winches review here: https://motoringcrunch.com/. Best of luck!

 

[MoparBob]

Hi lift on it’s way. I got the extreme version for a little over 100$ on Amazon. Seemed like a cheap and reasonable thing for me to test in driveway.

Thanks everyone for the input, I’ll post back once I test it out

Did you get a chance to test the Hi Lift Jack yet?

 

[Fin little]

I've spent t alot of time in the back country over the last 40 years. I have learned to avoid stuck is best by being stuck many times. Hi lift ,shovel ,towstrap, heavy duty come along mandatory. I've only walked once.15 miles pre cell era.

 

[User_21361]

Haven’t tested yet, I’ll report back when I do

 

[saylor]

as a person who is only even at this website at all because i got stuck - i say go for the full bumper and winch and full setup dont skimp. but if you dont have a 4x you shouldnt play like it, if this is serious **** where your life or fam depends on it.

im like dude ^ that walked 15 miles

i was in a 2015 crew cab 2WD and got stuck. i was out there over half a day waiting for help. if some 4 wheelers didnt pass by id still be out there.

i immediately sold my 2WD and got this 4x < - - -

when you get stuck. i mean STUCK. not 'gee my tire is in the sand' stuck -

i mean up against a tree on the driver door, mud up to the body, rocks against the nerf bars, back wheel in the air stuck. i was braking while going downhill and slid...


so when you are so stuck you go spend $20k only to upgrade to a 4x4 because you could have died and that ****s never gonna happen again, then you buy the winch and all the other crap and its cheap.