Ram Rebel leveling dilemma

[jebcamaro]

I have a few questions in regards to my recently acquired 2019 Ram Rebel. I've dug through many of the threads pertaining to what I'm wanting to achieve, but none seem to address the answer I'm seeking exactly.

I purchased this Ram Rebel last week after purchasing a 2021 GMC Sierra new and having nothing but problems with the 10 speed transmission for months that GM screwed me around over. I've haven't had the bug to do any modifications like I'm about to this Rebel since I was a teenager.

This past weekend I sat down and dropped some coin on a few goodies. I ordered a set of Method 317 20x9 wheels with 0 offset. Tires are still up in the air, but I have a local source. I do plan to run 34"+ tires, though. I also ordered a pair of Bilstein 6112 coilovers already setup on setting 8 and a pair of 5160 rear shocks.
I've ordered the AWE 0FG exhaust with black tips as well.

My goal is to level the truck with just a slight lift, but still leave a slight rake biased to the rear. I see a lot of people have used this suspension setup and purchased the 2.5" Clayton Springs from the Jeep Gladiator. Clayton lists 2 different triple rate springs. However, I'm not sure which I should purchase and I can't seem to find anyone saying much about spring rates. I did find one thread where the OP seemed to have went with the non-HD spring rate. That's fine and dandy, but my truck has the Ramboxes. In my search of different suspensions available, I ran across Carli Suspensions. I read they had to source a stiffer spring for the Rebel with the Ramboxes to maintain correct lift or rake.

With Carli Suspension's findings, would the same follow with the Clayton springs? Would I want to run their 2.5" HD spring over their non-HD 2.5" spring?

It seems UCA's at the level I'm wanting is kinda up in the air if necessary. However, I'd rather play safe than sorry and only want to do this once. I find the Rough Country cast UCA's to be appealing to me in both price and design. Anyone experience anything negative about their control arms?

Not really suspension related, but do the 0 offset Method wheels push the outside edge of the wheel more towards the wheelwell edge?

Thanks everyone!

 

[jebcamaro]

I went ahead and ordered the Carli Suspension rear HD springs. Hope they work!

I also ordered the Rough Country UCA's for 3" lift Rams along with longer front brake cables.

 

[jebcamaro]

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[stancedeuros]

Post up a pic when you get it done. I think you definitely want to run HD springs. I've run Clayton stuff on my Jeeps and it worked well. On my gladiator, I ran HD springs in the rear to allow for towing my 4500 pound Offroad camper.

 

[jebcamaro]

I switched gears and bought the Carli HD springs. I couldn't find anything concrete on the Claytons, so went to Carli who actually spec'd the spring for the Ram platform.

 

[JDHarris]

I’m happy with the Carli HD springs. They don’t provide any significant lift in the rear though. The rear stays about the same as stock. The Carli kit levels the truck by lifting the front a bit.

 

[jebcamaro]

I’m happy with the Carli HD springs. They don’t provide any significant lift in the rear though. The rear stays about the same as stock. The Carli kit levels the truck by lifting the front a bit.

Carli advertises the springs as adding lift to the rear. If they do not add lift, then where does the lift come from? I'm old school and so I'm used to lift provided by the spring. I've never seen a shock add lift.

 

[JDHarris]

Carli advertises the springs as adding lift to the rear. If they do not add lift, then where does the lift come from? I'm old school and so I'm used to lift provided by the spring. I've never seen a shock add lift.

I believe it lifts in the front and stays pretty close to factory in the rear, thus giving you a level appearance. In reality, it still has a very slight rake, but it’s minimal. The height is provided by the springs they provide, not the shocks. It’s worth noting that I’m referring to stock heights on my truck, which is a Rebel, and sits slightly higher from the factory. My truck also has the RamBox and MFT, which add quite a bit of weight. If you have documentation from Carli on specific lift heights for your truck and configuration, go with that. That said, I didn’t notice a meaningful lift in the rear on my truck (which is fine, I wanted larger tires and better performance with minimal lift).

My truck is the Rebel with RamBoxes and MFT that Carli uses on their site to demonstrate the difference with the HD coils on a fully optioned truck here: 2019+ Ram 1500, REBEL. You can see the actual height measurements for my truck on that page.

 

[jebcamaro]

Carli advertises right in the beginning of the write up of each of their systems for the Ram 1500 that their kit provides 2.5" of lift for the front of a 5.7 Hemi truck and 1" of lift for the rear. I guess the Rebel already has that 1" of lift, so those specs negate each other.

My truck has the Ramboxes, but it does not have the MFT. I've reached out to Carli, but since it's the weekend, I'm not going to get an answer yet.

My only goal really was to level the truck and allow me to run a slightly larger tire, up to 35". As well as, provide a quality ride with more control. The stock suspension feels vague and as a result I feel somewhat disconnected to the road. It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. With that said, the factory suspension does provide a nice ride. I love the feel of the rear link suspension as opposed to leaf spring suspension.

Thanks for your insights and help! Great looking truck!

 

[Booch]

Not really suspension related, but do the 0 offset Method wheels push the outside edge of the wheel more towards the wheelwell edge?

Thanks everyone!

I have 295/60R20 tires on a -12 rim, and it's about ~1/2" outside the fender flairs. 0 would likely have you right at it, or slightly inside it.

I'm looking forward to seeing your finished product. I currently have 1" blocks in the rear, and am trying to figure out how I can get rid of them in leu of a 2" spring.

 

[jebcamaro]

I believe it lifts in the front and stays pretty close to factory in the rear, thus giving you a level appearance. In reality, it still has a very slight rake, but it’s minimal. The height is provided by the springs they provide, not the shocks. It’s worth noting that I’m referring to stock heights on my truck, which is a Rebel, and sits slightly higher from the factory. My truck also has the RamBox and MFT, which add quite a bit of weight. If you have documentation from Carli on specific lift heights for your truck and configuration, go with that. That said, I didn’t notice a meaningful lift in the rear on my truck (which is fine, I wanted larger tires and better performance with minimal lift).

My truck is the Rebel with RamBoxes and MFT that Carli uses on their site to demonstrate the difference with the HD coils on a fully optioned truck here: 2019+ Ram 1500, REBEL. You can see the actual height measurements for my truck on that page.

I received a response to my email to Carli today. This leaves me with more questions than I had before

Here it is...

Hi Jeremy,



The Rebel HD Springs will absolutely provide lift. They’re made to sit at 1” of lift with a constant 500lb. load. Your Ram boxes won’t get you there so you could see 2-3” of rear lift with these.



Regards,

Customer Service & Tech Support
Carli Suspension

 

[JDHarris]

I received a response to my email to Carli today. This leaves me with more questions than I had before

Here it is...

Hi Jeremy,



The Rebel HD Springs will absolutely provide lift. They’re made to sit at 1” of lift with a constant 500lb. load. Your Ram boxes won’t get you there so you could see 2-3” of rear lift with these.



Regards,

Customer Service & Tech Support
Carli Suspension

Well, I’m curious to see where you net out. I certainly didn’t see 2-3 inches of lift in the rear. Perhaps you have a different configuration than I do though. I had the Carli suspension and my 35” tires installed at the same time, so I doubt I would have visually noticed a 1 inch lift. To complicate things a bit further, I was an early adopter of the kit before they had any Rebel or HD springs which meant the rear of my truck was initially lowered vs factory. I then worked with Carli and had the prototype Rebel springs installed, which still squatted in the rear a bit. Then I had the prototype HD springs installed which put the rear at the same place a standard 1500 with the standard Carli springs would sit. So I’ve had a bit of a journey that makes it harder for me to do a direct comparison vs stock. I don’t have a visual rake though and the rear is not 2-3” higher than a factory Rebel as far as I can tell. I have a heavy truck though (rock sliders, DiamondBack cover, RamBox, MFT, etc)

 

[jebcamaro]

Here's another response from Carli...

Considering the lift you’re putting on the front and the lack of constant load in the rear, I’d say they’re too much spring for you.



These are made for a Rebel with 500lbs of constant load.



Regards,

Customer Service & Tech Support
Carli Suspension

 

[jebcamaro]

Knowing this, then I can only deduct I'll be running spacers until I can find the correct spring to give me a 1/2" or so rake.

 

[JDHarris]

Knowing this, then I can only deduct I'll be running spacers until I can find the correct spring to give me a 1/2" or so rake

This is pure opinion and forum speculation on my part. It is intended in the spirit of being helpful though.

You may be overthinking this. A typical leveling kit will have about 1/2“ to 1” rake in order to maintain the level appearance visually. A truly level truck doesn’t look quite right visually (fenders are not the same front to back). If you are not carrying any weight, you will probably be fine with something like the standard Rebel Carli or Clayton springs. I expect the Clayton springs will give you more rake and lift.

If all you are trying to do is fit a slightly larger tire, you may also be fine with stock springs in the rear. I believe the Bilstein coil overs you got are height adjustable. If you are only putting a 33-34” tire on, I suspect you don’t need much lift in the front. It’s worth noting that you have a bit of height to play with up front while still preserving some rake. If you are unhappy with the stock rear after install, then I’d be looking at other springs. You would probably have a better idea of what you need then. Just an option to think about.

All that said, I’ve read good things about the Clayton/Bilstein combo combined with a Helwig rear sway bar. I’m not aware of any commentary on how well the Carli stuff works in a mix and match system.

 

[jebcamaro]

Oh I know I'm overthinking this. That is my intention here

I'm trying to work everything out best I can now rather than when I do the install. These parts aren't particularly cheap and if I install them to find out they won't work, then they effectively become used.

I was killing some time at work this morning and looked up Carli Suspension's phone number to give them a call. Without realizing it, I called CJC Offroad accidently. I thought I was talking with Carli...lol...No wonder the guy on the phone was talking to me strangely. Nonetheless, he did seem to offer some insight. He said the springs would give me an additional 1" lift over what my truck is at now.

I've never measured my truck till just now. Front sits at around 38" and rear around 40.5". A 2.5" lift on the front would put the truck dead level. If the Carli springs add an 1", then that would put the rear 1" over the front. That would give me some rake still, but would reduce the severe rake it has from the factory. I do tow occasionally with the truck and carry stuff in the bed from time to time. I would never have a constant load other than the ramboxes and the 50-75#'s of stuff I'll keep in those.

That will work out, right?

 

[JDHarris]

Oh I know I'm overthinking this. That is my intention here

I'm trying to work everything out best I can now rather than when I do the install. These parts aren't particularly cheap and if I install them to find out they won't work, then they effectively become used.

I was killing some time at work this morning and looked up Carli Suspension's phone number to give them a call. Without realizing it, I called CJC Offroad accidently. I thought I was talking with Carli...lol...No wonder the guy on the phone was talking to me strangely. Nonetheless, he did seem to offer some insight. He said the springs would give me an additional 1" lift over what my truck is at now.

I've never measured my truck till just now. Front sits at around 38" and rear around 40.5". A 2.5" lift on the front would put the truck dead level. If the Carli springs add an 1", then that would put the rear 1" over the front. That would give me some rake still, but would reduce the severe rake it has from the factory. I do tow occasionally with the truck and carry stuff in the bed from time to time. I would never have a constant load other than the ramboxes and the 50-75#'s of stuff I'll keep in those.

That will work out, right?

Honest answer, I don’t know. All I can share is what my experience was for my truck. My Rebel with the RamBox (with about 50 pounds in them) and MFT with the HD coils sits at 41” from fender to floor in the rear (40.125 up front). You can see the measurements from my truck and others from Carli here: 2019+ Ram 1500, REBEL

You‘re sitting right smack in a gray area for me between the coils. I don’t know what the weight difference is between my config (with MFT) and yours (no MFT). I suspect the difference is going to come down to how you use the truck. For me, the standard coil was too soft. My truck squatted just a bit in the rear (39.75” floor to fender vs 40.325” in front) and adding a trailer would make me pretty nose high. The HD springs were where I needed to be. It rides much better for me with the HDs and how I use my truck (daily driver, occasional towing of 4k lbs trailer, periodic carrying of 400-500 pounds of cargo).

If you want Carli springs, I really suggest you look at the page I linked above. It has measurements for various configurations and weights. They don’t have your exact config though, so it will be a bit of judgement call. Most of the configurations sit a bit higher than mine though, and I’m sure yours would too.

 

[jebcamaro]

I've read Carli's site to nauseam. Reading their site and seeing your truck on there was what led me to purchase the HD springs in the first place. Quite frankly, I can't understand them saying what they did to me. It's contradictive to what they've posted online.

Comparing your truck to mine is really comparing apples to apples. You have the extra weight of the MFT, but at what expense does that put on the rear springs. Filling up the fuel tank to being nearly empty would have as much affect or me throwing on both of my mountain bikes with mounts.

You have different shocks and coilovers than me, but the spring is what gives the lift. The shocks are negligible in the equation. I think you and I would pretty much come to the same results, +/- 1/4" or so.

I'm going to stick with my plan of using the Carli HD springs. They were $550 shipped to my door and they are due to arrive tomorrow. Returning them would be a hit to my pocket. If I try them and they don't work out, then I'll take a hit too. I'll try them out and see what happens

Thanks a bunch for your help! I'll post up some pictures with the results once I get everything in place.

 

[jebcamaro]

I have an interesting update...

Today, the Carli rear HD springs arrived along with the Method 317 wheels and Bilstein 6112's. UPS man I bet was hating me today having to unload all that

The interesting thing I've found out is that the Carli HD spring measures 21-1/2" in static height. From what others have posted on here, the stock 2019 and up Rebel rear spring measures 20-1/2" in static height. Finding this completely contradicts the information Carli sent to me in my email correspondence with them. By that extra inch in length, I will achieve exactly the amount of rear lift I was looking for!

Now I can't wait to get everything installed. That is still going to take a little bit of time, but I'm close...

 

[JDHarris]

I have an interesting update...

Today, the Carli rear HD springs arrived along with the Method 317 wheels and Bilstein 6112's. UPS man I bet was hating me today having to unload all that

The interesting thing I've found out is that the Carli HD spring measures 21-1/2" in static height. From what others have posted on here, the stock 2019 and up Rebel rear spring measures 20-1/2" in static height. Finding this completely contradicts the information Carli sent to me in my email correspondence with them. By that extra inch in length, I will achieve exactly the amount of rear lift I was looking for!

Now I can't wait to get everything installed. That is still going to take a little bit of time, but I'm close...

Out of curiosity, what information does it contradict? You may already know this, but the unloaded height of a spring is a challenging metric to compare. The type of steel used, the angle of the coils, the thickness of wire used, and the resulting spring rate, etc all have a significant impact on their loaded characteristics. Interestingly, the HD springs have fewer coils than the standard springs, as an example. I’m really curious to see if the spring gets you what you want, but I don’t think measuring the unloaded spring height will tell you much about what will happen once you get the weight of the truck on them.