No Rebel TR/TRX At Detroit

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#21
I don't know what the sale numbers are for the Raptor but the Trackhawk is around 7,000 units total for 2018 world-wide with total Grand Cherokee US sales around 225k units. I think the states got around 4,000 and change of the Trackhawks. Those are not HUGE numbers at all, and IMO not worth the development, engineering, etc to be profitable thus the high price tag. I think they were going for sheer bragging rights to have the fastest SUV. LOL In addition they need to offer a full warranty for these cars and in the end they need to turn a profit. A loss on one car from a warranty perspective should be wiped out by the hundreds or thousands that are a profit (less warranty repairs).

On the other hand US Ram truck sales are around 450k for the Ram 1500 in 2018. That is a better number so I am hoping they can keep the price point at a more reasonable target to gather more buyers and maybe jumpers from Ford (or Chevy LOL).
 
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#22
Dealer just came down another 1k to $76k. These specialty trucks have a weird used market. Cars are different and I'm sure Demons, Redeye, etc will hold their value (maybe) but trucks.......need to be careful. That is why I would use caution when stepping into one of these trucks especially in the first or 2nd year of the model. I'd like to see what the used market does first before I jump on a near 100k vehicle again. Learned my lesson.

https://www.koonsjeep.com/used/Jeep...irfax-VA-51d52f5a0a0e0ae74d0e98844adbebeb.htm

Now - my 2014 Ram was purchased for $59k in 2014 (sticker was $68k). Put almost 50k miles on it and traded it in for the TrackHawk for $44k about 4 years later. Trucks that make sense hold their value. Specialty vehicles can go either way.
 
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#23
At any rate it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I wouldn't think the following is big enough to have MSRP's of more than a guy could purchase a raptor for. They will need to stay competitive. Another poster brought up mustangs and the huge following for them. He's right. I have a mustang and I chose to build my own as opposed to buying a Shelby or Roush. Don't get me wrong I like those vehicles but building one to run 10.9 in the 1/4 and still be streetable is a good feeling. Trucks with high horspower, great interior, tech upgrades is a trend that seems to be excelling. People want more tech. Hell one of the reasons i liked the rebel was b/c of the 12inch screen. That really jumped out at me. I think once a guy starts getting into the 80k range for a 1/2 ton is probably getting to be a bit much for what your actually getting. I could be wrong. I wouldn't have thought the raptor would have been successful but its seems to be. And if there is more competition with that sort of vehicle how much before it may catabolize itself. Is there enough customers to satisfy both brands? I suppose if you a dodge guy that you probably haven't crossed to ford for the raptor. However like myself im not a brand loyal person. I go with what I like visually and then reserch that trim level to see if its worthy of ownership.
 

ChadT

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#24
At any rate it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. I wouldn't think the following is big enough to have MSRP's of more than a guy could purchase a raptor for. They will need to stay competitive. Another poster brought up mustangs and the huge following for them. He's right. I have a mustang and I chose to build my own as opposed to buying a Shelby or Roush. Don't get me wrong I like those vehicles but building one to run 10.9 in the 1/4 and still be streetable is a good feeling. Trucks with high horspower, great interior, tech upgrades is a trend that seems to be excelling. People want more tech. Hell one of the reasons i liked the rebel was b/c of the 12inch screen. That really jumped out at me. I think once a guy starts getting into the 80k range for a 1/2 ton is probably getting to be a bit much for what your actually getting. I could be wrong. I wouldn't have thought the raptor would have been successful but its seems to be. And if there is more competition with that sort of vehicle how much before it may catabolize itself. Is there enough customers to satisfy both brands? I suppose if you a dodge guy that you probably haven't crossed to ford for the raptor. However like myself im not a brand loyal person. I go with what I like visually and then reserch that trim level to see if its worthy of ownership.
I think in some part the Raptor's success has to do with aesthetics and marketing.

The Powerwagon had been out for a while,, I think a few years before the Raptor came out.
But the Powerwagon was a 2500, looked like the other Rams.
The Ford had its own unique look, plus aggressive looking factory tires plus a lift, on a 1/2ton, with a big 6.2L motor and the sound to match. Combined with the optics of jumping sand dunes? Sold.
The power wagon having superior towing, payload, a winch, and solid axles? Isn't visually as sexy.
Remember how many GT-Rs were sold by Nissan after launching it 0-60, and how mad people were when they found out it would void the warranty on the $25,000 transmission.
Remember how many people bent Raptor frames, jumping their raptor, like the ads.

I believe Ram looked at the Raptor's success and realized that most people buying it? Would never use it as a dune buggy.
They did so for the unique look, the name, the REAL factory offroad tires, the lift.
In a halfton truck.

The power wagon is a 2500, a bigger truck, a little slow 0-60, it's not going to ride like the baja-rigs with soft shocks. It will be interesting to see if this really is a segment that will grow, with the introduction of the Rebel TRX
 
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#25
I think in some part the Raptor's success has to do with aesthetics and marketing.

The Powerwagon had been out for a while,, I think a few years before the Raptor came out.
But the Powerwagon was a 2500, looked like the other Rams.
The Ford had its own unique look, plus aggressive looking factory tires plus a lift, on a 1/2ton, with a big 6.2L motor and the sound to match. Combined with the optics of jumping sand dunes? Sold.
The power wagon having superior towing, payload, a winch, and solid axles? Isn't visually as sexy.
Remember how many GT-Rs were sold by Nissan after launching it 0-60, and how mad people were when they found out it would void the warranty on the $25,000 transmission.
Remember how many people bent Raptor frames, jumping their raptor, like the ads.

I believe Ram looked at the Raptor's success and realized that most people buying it? Would never use it as a dune buggy.
They did so for the unique look, the name, the REAL factory offroad tires, the lift.
In a halfton truck.

The power wagon is a 2500, a bigger truck, a little slow 0-60, it's not going to ride like the baja-rigs with soft shocks. It will be interesting to see if this really is a segment that will grow, with the introduction of the Rebel TRX
I hadn't realized the raptors had bent frames due to people treating it as a baja truck. Im sure common sense falls severely short. Baja trucks have major costs associated with that racing style. I doubt 250,000 gets u started. Of course when your commercials shows a raptor jumping then people take it for face value. A little off roading but not jumping.

But there ad created buzz and thats what you need to market a 75k 1/2 ton truck.
 

VoiceOfReason

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#26
I hadn't realized the raptors had bent frames due to people treating it as a baja truck. Im sure common sense falls severely short. Baja trucks have major costs associated with that racing style. I doubt 250,000 gets u started. Of course when your commercials shows a raptor jumping then people take it for face value. A little off roading but not jumping.

But there ad created buzz and thats what you need to market a 75k 1/2 ton truck.
Yeah, I remember reading about the bent frames. Hard to tell how much of that was design flaw or customer taking the truck beyond designed limits. I’m sure the Raptor can handle all four wheels going airborne, but not fifteen feet in the air.
The TRX will be faster and better looking. It has had a cult following for a while now. Price (and release date, which has recently been brought into question) is the big question. I can’t see a Hellcat powered truck being price competitive with the Raptor. That was why I was hoping to see the TR. I haven’t recently priced a fully loaded Rebel, but I know they go well north of $60,000. That may be why FCA appears to be questioning the TR. where do you price it - and the TRX? If they want to sell a lot of TRXs, they can’t go above $90k and may struggle above $80k. I know a few who would be delighted to get one even if it meant shelling out over $90k, but the operative word there is “few”.
The TR would likely top out in the high $70s, early $80s. The TRX would likely be a good $15k-$20k above that if they offered both. No TR, I would expect the TRX to be lower than if there were also a TR to choose. The TR would be their relatively high volume $70k+ avg transaction truck and the TRX the Supreme halo. No TR, the TRX has to be the relatively high volume $70k+ avg transaction truck.
That’s my guess anyway.
 

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