My PPE transmission pan: the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[c3k]

Folks,
Here's my experience installing an aftermarket transmission pan for my truck's ZF8HP75 transmission. I'll run you through what I did, as I did it, so you can make your own decision. It'll be a bit long, but I want to be thorough.

The ZF8 transmission has a pan with a built-in filter. If you want to change that filter, you need a new pan. The kit (pan, bolts) costs ~ $250. RAM says it's a 100,000 mile fluid. Yeah...they make money when you need a new tranny. ZF says the oil change interval is anywhere from 2-4 years and 32,000 to 60,000 miles (depending on source, drive type, transmission temperature, etc.). With information all over the place, 40k or so seems reasonable to me to change fluid and filter in a transmission. So, I did it at 35,000.

I was not familiar with Pacific Performance Engineering, PPE, but many folks on this forum said they were solid. I went to their website: Transmission Upgrades Dodge/Ram

They offer 2 pans, both with replaceable filters. One pan is bigger (deeper) than the other. They are aluminum, with cooling fins, and that wonderful replaceable filter that only costs ~$30. That's FAR cheaper than the $250 new pan/filter combo. I chose the smaller of the two pans. This adds 1 quart of fluid capacity. (The larger one adds 2 quarts capacity.)

Here's where it gets interesting...the description/specs for the large pan reads:


Cool. Of course, I was not interested in the large pan, I wanted the smaller pan (which would still increase my transmission capacity by 1 quart:


^^^
See the difference? No? Neither did I. The small pan has NO COMMENT about WHAT FILTER is compatible. When I put that pan in my cart ($350, but I'd make savings on the lifetime of filter changes), what popped up was a window with "other people also purchased" and a filter and drain plug gasket. I tossed in several of the filters and drain plug gaskets.

Wasn't I surprised to find out the filters I bought (at the site auto-recommendation) were WRONG.

Here are the two filter types:



and



Now, the sharp-eyed will notice that the "Made to fit" line in BOTH filter descriptions do not match EITHER pan.

Okay. Pain in the ***. Good news? PPE already had the right filter bolted into the pan.

Bad news? The pan did NOT COME WITH A GASKET.

I called customer service. The wrong filters...I had to pay shipping and restocking fee. But, I can see (a little) how part of the blame for that is on me. However, their site is a mess when it comes to linking to compatible products and clearly delineating which filters go with which pans. Shrug. Learning curve.

But the gasket??? So, the CS rep said, "No, we don't ship gaskets. No, we don't sell them. Just re-use the one from the OEM pan."

Seriously? WTF. Re-use a gasket.

Now, I did have 2 spare ZF8 pans...for the HP50 in a BMW. (I purchased them from FCP Euro (<- outstanding outfit) for my son's Alfa Romeo.) I rationalized that I'd just use a gasket from one of them. (Those pans cost ~$65.)

So, I had the pan: 2010-2024 w/ ZF-8 Speed Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum Transmission Pan

I also had some transmission oil. I decided to use LiquiMoly Top Tec 1800. It works on the ZF8HP50 in the aforementioned Alfa Romeo, LiquiMoly lists it as compatible with all ZF8s, and I really don't want to pay the outrageous sums for the Lifeguard 8 fluid.



Next, the pan swap...

 

[c3k]

Pan swap

The ZF8 drain and fill (obviously needed, and desired, for a pan swap) is not too complex despite what you read. The main issue is a tight temperature range to start and finish the fluid fill. The goal is to keep it between 30C and 50C (<- from memory, don't base YOUR drain and fill on these numbers) from initial fill to final fill. That's to ensure the cooling loop opens and various other solenoids and valves are where they want to be. More, later.

Step one, open the fill plug. (ALWAYS open a fill plug before draining fluid. It creates problems if you find out later that the fill plug is jammed. ) So, with the truck up on ramps (level), I stuck an 8mm allen wrench into the fill plug...and got doused by oil. It is filled OVER the fill plug. Nice. I set that aside, and then opened the drain plug. Smells like gear oil. Kinda. While that drained, I prepped my PPE pan.

I pulled a gasket off one of the "spare" ZF pans and installed it in the PPE pan's gasket groove. A few weeks previously I had used a dremel to rough up part of the pan and I installed a rare-earth magnet with some high-temp JB weld made for oil/coolant immersion. I wanted a better/stronger magnet than just the drain plug magnet.

Here's the PPE pan, ready to install, while the transmission oil dripped out of the truck. (My magnet is under the filter.)



Well, the draining was done, so I pulled off the old pan:



I circled the pan's magnets. I had some clutch material, but no sparkles and no chunks. Good for me!

Bad for me? Look at that gasket. See how it extends over the bolt "ears" on the pan? Yeah, it's MUCH more robust than the skinny-*** gasket I'd pulled off the spare. Sigh.

So, I did what PPE's CS rep said: I re-used the old gasket. Yeah, every instinct screamed at me for doing this. Listen to your instincts.

Here's what I ended up with:



I tried cleaning the old gasket as well as I could. That red arrow? Yeah, there was some old fluid there. I'll come back to that.

Next, was crawling under the truck with the new pan. I wiped down the valve body flange with a lint free cloth, and sprayed it with brake clean (cloth got sprayed, then wiped on flange) to dry it thoroughly. I bolted it up per the diagram. (Star pattern, to avoid warpage.) The pan bolts only spec to 10Nm or ~ 7 1/2 pound feet. Not more than good and snug.

Next, refill the transmission....

 

[c3k]

Refilling a ZF8...

This is not rocket science.

Step 1: Fill until it dribbles from fill port.
2: Loosely install fill plug.
3: Start vehicle. Run through reverse, 1st, 2nd, and then 2,000 rpm. Hold each for 5-10 seconds. (Some vehicles say the wheels should rotate. Shrug.)
4: With engine running (so transmission pump is pressurized), open fill plug and pump in fluid until it overflows from fill port.

In my case, it took an extra quart to fill it after it was running. That explains why all the fluid pours out when you open the fill plug on a stopped vehicle: all the "excess" fluid comes out of the pump/torque converter, etc., and comes out.

Next, a quick test drive.

Awesome! Everything worked great. I'm convinced the pan reduced my temps by at least 2-5F.

After 100-200 miles, I crawled back under...and found a leaking gasket. Yeah, that instinct was telling me what an idiot I'd been. Agreed. Don't listen to PPE CS.

Luckily, I'd found and purchased gaskets in the meantime. The company is KLM Performance. Go to: Mopar 68172556AA ZF 8 Speed Automatic Transmission Pan Gasket

I bought 5. One to replace the old one (installed and leaking), and one each for each of the 4 filters I had purchased. Since a filter swap will need a pan drop...and therefore a new gasket. (This means I'm good for about 200,000 miles. (35k now, plus 35k x 4, and the last one will be good for 35k before needing a new one...on my (short) interval.)

My pan was leaking from the rear, where that red arrow is, upstream.

I went through the entire drain procedure, dropped the pan, and installed a new gasket.

The extra fluid I'd purchased helped.



I also had a pump, from: Macnaught All Purpose Oil Transfer Pump with Extender - PN# MAOP20



Note: the pump does NOT screw onto that jug. The jug is German...and has some crazy euro thread. Sigh. One of the pump adapters allows it to snap into place and it stays stable. It is GREAT having a place to put the hose (metal end piece) so it drains back into the pump.

Okay, new pan, new fill. Great. I've drained and filled twice. That means, 1/2 * 1/2 = 1/4 of the original fluid is left. So, a 75% swap. (More than that, actually, due to the increased volume in the new pan. Maybe 85% new fluid.)

Also, with the drain prior to swapping a new gasket, I had obviously removed the PPE drain plug. It has as green O-ring. The replacement O-rings I'd bought ($6 each) are brown and listed as being Viton. O-Ring for 1 inch Drain-Fill Plug

I did not replace that O-ring.

Why?

Because I wanted to post this picture:



That's my drain plug seeping. I cleaned the green O-ring (wiped down and left wet) and reinstalled to correct torque.

So, what's next? Yep, a drain and fill. YAY! At least the new pan gasket from KLM is tight and dry, so I just have to dump and fill the oil. Now I'm REALLY glad I bought the 5 gallon jug of LiquiMoly.

(I did spray that area with brake clean, ensured it was dry, then drove. Yep, the O-ring does leak.)

With 3 drain and fills (I've got to do the 3rd, just need to find a morning that's free), I'll have ~ 96% new fluid. (Usually a drain and fill is about 1/2. I'm guessing I get about 3/5s with my extra capacity.)

Summary, next...

(Edited because I wrote "drain plug" twice by mistake instead of "fill plug".)

 

[c3k]

My PPE review:

The pan is a definite upgrade to the OEM. It holds more, it has cooling capability (aluminum with fins) and will make future filter swaps MUCH less expensive. A filter costs $30, a drain O-ring is $6, and a gasket (from KLM) is $27.50. Fluid cost would be the same (okay, add a quart for the bigger pan): Less than $65 instead of north of $250. I'll save $200 per filter change from here on.

The bad: no gasket??? WTF. And the "re-use the old one"? No...just, no.

Get the pan. Buy a gasket from KLM. Install a NEW O-ring on your drain plug. Add an aftermarket magnet to it if you want (like I did.)

Hopefully my experiences and suggestions will save you the time, trouble, and expense, that I had to go through to learn about PPE's shortcomings.

Again, the pan should help my transmission's longevity: cooler temps and more oil.

Good luck!

 

[W Six]

Nice write up. Thanks.
I'm looking fwd to the rest of it.

 

[bigdodge]

wow!
good job
you seem to have a lot of patience.

 

[c3k]

wow!
good job
you seem to have a lot of patience.

Thanks.

If I'd put the Viton O-ring onto the PPE drain plug, I'd be done. Instead, I've got a leaking PPE O-ring (<-maybe THAT'S why they don't ship gaskets with the pan???) that I need to replace.

If I ever do another PPE pan swap...I'll put that replacement O-ring on, first.

My thoughts on PPE for this are split:

Website: 1 of 5 (mis-directed me to the wrong filter, then charged me shipping/stocking.)
Customer Service: 2 of 5 (polite, but no one should ever be told to (or have to) re-use a gasket for a product like this.)
Completeness of kit: 2 of 5 (bolts were there, filter was there...but the gasket. C'mon. )
Actual pan: 5 of 5...or 1 of 5. (If I replace the O-ring on the drain plug and there's still a leak...then the pan is bad. I don't know yet.)

Honestly...if you're comfortable with your skills, have time, and a spare vehicle, give it a shot. Otherwise...meh. Pass.

(And, if anyone knows someone at PPE, feel free to send them a link to this. If I owned/ran that company, I'd want to know what's being shipped and how it works.)

 

[Grape_Ape]

Thanks for the write up. I'm about to hit 60,000 miles and this is on my to do list. I was under the impression that ZF recommends 60-80k on our trans. Guess I'll expedite this to ensure I'm right around the 60k mark.

 

[c3k]

Thanks for the write up. I'm about to hit 60,000 miles and this is on my to do list. I was under the impression that ZF recommends 60-80k on our trans. Guess I'll expedite this to ensure I'm right around the 60k mark.

The ZF recommendation: I've seen a wide variety of mileage. That makes sense, since this transmission is the basis for so many different installs and is used across such a wide spectrum of use cases.

60,000 seems to be good mark. I have a bias (unscientific) that my vehicles like early fluid changes. I think it makes them like me better.

 

[kapinallinen2]

Nice write up.
I don`t do any HD hauling/towing, so will stick with the made in Germany ZF stock pan and fluid.
Waited till 80k to service it, was a high time to do it.

 

[Nsleone]

Great write up! Sorry you had so much trouble with the gasket and filters.

I bought my PPE pan from XDP and back when I bought it June of last year they included the gasket with the pan. I just checked again and they don’t anymore, in fact they don’t even sell the gasket on their website.

I’m curious if you’ve noticed any temp changes? I’ve got the deeper pan that adds 2 quarts but my temps never went down, still around 190 normal driving. I’ve yet to tow with it though maybe that’s where the temp improvement is.

 

[popcenator]

Did you keep the truck level when you did the fill procedure or did you level the transmission pan rail?

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

 

[J-Cooz]

Nice write up. I was looking at it but I'll think I'll stick with stock.

I wish PPE would make an oil pan for the Ecodiesel. My stock one is rusted badly.

Sent from my SM-S911W using Tapatalk

 

[Nsleone]

Did you keep the truck level when you did the fill procedure or did you level the transmission pan rail?

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

I leveled my truck by reference of the frame rails when I did mine

 

[c3k]

Did you keep the truck level when you did the fill procedure or did you level the transmission pan rail?

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

I drove it onto 4 ramps. I did not use a laser level. I did not use a digital level. I did not use my Stabila levels. It's a truck. It's oil. It sits in a pan.

Level just means nothing weird, not a precise 0.00^ to an infinite plane in both directions.

As long as there's sufficient fluid to circulate through all the passages, under pressure, and to fill the torque converter, I don't think the transmission will notice if you're 30 milliliters short. Extra fluid just adds thermal mass...and some backup for leaks. (<- as I look at it).

All the above IMHO.

(As an exercise, I suppose one could measure the valve body/pan interface dimensions. It's roughly a foot wide by 18" long. Next, measure the fill port location in reference to that. Then work the geometry (sines and cosines) of what various angles would do to the fluid level. I cannot imagine that anything less than 10-15^ would have ANY impact, other than a theoretical one. (It would probably be a smaller value than the variability of "fill until a steam of fluid drains and then install the plug." If I'm 10 seconds faster than you, and my "thin stream" is bigger than your "thin stream", then I'll have more fluid than you.

Also, think about how that oil circulates when you're driving up a 10^ grade, with a heavy tongue-weight trailer, accelerating. Or in a hard turn. Etc. There's gotta be a LOT of slop.

Maybe, when I'm bored, I'll run that geometric exercise just for snits and grins.)

Again, your truck, do it however you're most comfortable.

 

[popcenator]

I'm very familiar with the procedure, I've done it numerous times but I've seen both ways of doing it referenced so I'm just curious what other people follow.

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Oldphart]

Nice write-up.......I'll never understand why the folks that go to the trouble of developing these aftermarket trans pans don't take the next step and incorporate a calibrated dipstick. I had a GMC Canyon and a guy figured this out and must have sold over 1,000. Even Chevy and GMC dealerships were buying them. It shouldn't be a total PITA to get your fluid level correct but if the manufacturers had their way, you would need a code to open the hood to check oil and coolant levels also. It will probably come to that one day.

 

[stevieb92]

Nice write up. Thanks for taking the time to put together your posts. Replacing the pan with the PPE is on my list of mods to do to my Rebel GT. That stinks you had so much difficulty with the gasket issue. Maybe it would help others to put together a final parts list in your summary post? Just a thought. Would you be able to post a part number or link to the magnet you used?

 

[JF19Longhorn]

Nice write up. Thanks!

I've bought everything to do this almost a year ago and was waiting for 60k.. now I'm @ 68k and still haven't done it. ..hopefully on the 9th day of the week, because the first 8 are booked up.

 

[c3k]

I just did the third drain, so that I could swap out the o-ring on the drain plug. (Drain 1 was the pan swap. Drain 2 was the leaking gasket that I re-used...due to the instructions. Sigh. I used a new o-ring then, a brown viton one. and that leaks.)

Drain resulted in 4 1/2 quarts coming out. (Remember, the PPE pan I have states that it adds one quart to the capacity.) YMMV.

When I removed the drain plug, the viton o-ring was bound up in the threads. I am SURE that it went on smoothly. Shrug.

I've done 3 drain and fills. I have a new pan on (with a second gasket). The drain plug is on its third O-ring: first was PPE's green; second was Viton brown (from PPE) that leaked; third is another Viton brown (from PPE).

I also flushed the brake fluid. Thinking about coolant...