Motul X-cess 5w40 analysis

[WXman]

7,300 miles to end of oil life meter. Had towed several times on this run. The engine seemed to show that it's continuing to wear slightly faster than it should be.

So that's a cycle on Valvoline MST, a cycle on whatever the dealer uses, and then a cycle on Motul, all of which posted similar results.

Next up is the Quaker State. I'll run it for a while and see what it looks like.

 

[Dragonmaster13]

Is this the first time the wear metals were high? Or were they high in all tests?

 

[WXman]

Is this the first time the wear metals were high? Or were they high in all tests?

Aluminum and Iron have been high on every test since the truck was new...which indicates that piston/cylinder wear is higher than it should be.

I'm extremely meticulous with caring for my vehicles, so I'm thinking that the changes they made to the rods, pistons, rings, etc. to reduce weight and friction may be allowing these engines to wear quickly. I am starting to think they will not be 200,000 mile engines.

 

[jdefoe0424]

Running different lengths of intervals can also skew the numbers, as does a different duty cycle(which you've already noted).
If this was the first change where you really had a good load behind it then it could just be wearing in the thrust bearings, like they said just something to keep an eye on.

I pulled one from my 5.7 Hemi before I traded it in at 19k. I was surprised at the amount of copper even though iron was still ok. I did tow 2.5-3k miles....That tells me the Hemi probably needs to run 5w-30 for tow duty.
I'd be interested to see you run AMSOIL, but the recommended oil doesn't carry the exact spec. I plan to inquire about it and see what Tech says.

 

[WXman]

Running different lengths of intervals can also skew the numbers, as does a different duty cycle(which you've already noted).
If this was the first change where you really had a good load behind it then it could just be wearing in the thrust bearings, like they said just something to keep an eye on.

I pulled one from my 5.7 Hemi before I traded it in at 19k. I was surprised at the amount of copper even though iron was still ok. I did tow 2.5-3k miles....That tells me the Hemi probably needs to run 5w-30 for tow duty.
I'd be interested to see you run AMSOIL, but the recommended oil doesn't carry the exact spec. I plan to inquire about it and see what Tech says.

Truck has been used in the same way since day 1. I tow a trailer of around 6,000 lbs. about once per month on average. Otherwise it's driven easily in a roughly 60/40 split of city/highway trips.

What's interesting also is that all the oils I've used are MS-12991 spec'd, but some are dirt cheap and some were expensive and all of them showed roughly the same results which seems to prove that paying more for oil doesn't have any benefit.

 

[jdefoe0424]

There's some benefits that you can't see though. Over time the cheaper oils may generate some sludge, maybe they collect and form sludge in the intake or on intake valves from PCV. Whereas a better oil has more or different additives to prevent that sludge build up and other deposits.

Actually a 5W-40 should be 12.5-16.3cSt at 100C so two of your samples are out of the viscosity range.

I know it's not a true apples to apples comparison, but the AMSOIL in my Hemi only changed viscosity by ~0.2 cSt over 7300 miles.

 

[JGRaider]

I'm about to send off another Amsoil sample and will post it here when I get it back. The first Amsoil UOA did not show wear metals anywhere close to what WX's posted sample did, and my daily use is close to what he described as well. We'll see on the next one.

 

[WXman]

Also of note, I think, is that the Motul is a Group IV oil, uses Ester, supposedly one of the top oils in the world, similar to some of the "luxury" oils like Redline, Amsoil, etc. Not only does it show high wear metals, but another EcoDiesel owner who also runs Motul sent off a sample to another lab (Oil Analyzers) and saw nearly identical results.

So, I am still very unsold on the idea that an oil that costs 4x more money is going to give better protection for these engines.

 

[jdefoe0424]

As you understand, all oils will protect an engine, the only question is just for how long. It does seem strange that the Motul, which does appear to be mostly Group IV, shows more bearing material wear. I can only wonder if that's due to the "thinning" of the oil and low viscosity you're seeing in the UOA. Or maybe they're depending more on the base oil to protect vs the additive package...only a deep dive on composition and someone with way more knowledge than I have would be able to tell you.

To my knowledge, AMSOIL Signature Series and probably some of the European line is mostly group IV base oils. OE and XL are mainly group III with the difference being the additive package.

 

[WXman]

And then on the flip side of the coin, the Rotella T6, which was formerly used in every diesel engine I knew of including the EcoDiesel, is not covered under the new spec for the Gen 3 engine, but guys who have used it and posted their analysis results are seeing WAYYYY lower aluminum and iron metals in the oil, even at 10,000 mile intervals.

So that brings up the dead horse we've been beating for 2 full years now, which is why did FCA (Stellantis) decide to go away from the Rotella T6?

It puts an owner in a tough predicament because using T6 may extend engine life significantly, but, it also may void warranty IF an engine failure happens. Rock and a hard place.....

 

[Finn5033]

And then on the flip side of the coin, the Rotella T6, which was formerly used in every diesel engine I knew of including the EcoDiesel, is not covered under the new spec for the Gen 3 engine, but guys who have used it and posted their analysis results are seeing WAYYYY lower aluminum and iron metals in the oil, even at 10,000 mile intervals.

So that brings up the dead horse we've been beating for 2 full years now, which is why did FCA (Stellantis) decide to go away from the Rotella T6?

It puts an owner in a tough predicament because using T6 may extend engine life significantly, but, it also may void warranty IF an engine failure happens. Rock and a hard place.....

I only had to do 2 oil changes on mine before I sold it but I used the T6 both times.

I thought I read on here that Shell didn’t want to go through the hassle required to get it approved by FCA for the new ecodiesel

 

[JGRaider]

I'm about to send off another Amsoil sample and will post it here when I get it back. The first Amsoil UOA did not show wear metals anywhere close to what WX's posted sample did, and my daily use is close to what he described as well. We'll see on the next one.

Here is latest UOA, Amsoil EFM 5w40. Admittedly I was surprised a bit by the aluminum #.

 

[WXman]

Here is latest UOA, Amsoil EFM 5w40. Admittedly I was surprised a bit by the aluminum #.

See, your iron was higher than mine and aluminum was very close.

A well known member of the Facebook group keeps telling me there was something wrong with my engine. I disagree. Everything I'm seeing shows that these engines just wear quickly and it makes a guy wonder if it's because of the MS-12991 oils in a diesel engine, or if it's because of the new lightweighted pistons and rings, or if it's something else. Regardless, expensive oils are NOT helping these engines. There's something else at play here.

 

[JGRaider]

The higher iron # was from the first oil change/OEM oil. You can see it's greatly reduced with the Amsoil. Wear metals is definitely something to keep an eye on in the future.

 

[Wsmith]

And then on the flip side of the coin, the Rotella T6, which was formerly used in every diesel engine I knew of including the EcoDiesel, is not covered under the new spec for the Gen 3 engine, but guys who have used it and posted their analysis results are seeing WAYYYY lower aluminum and iron metals in the oil, even at 10,000 mile intervals.

So that brings up the dead horse we've been beating for 2 full years now, which is why did FCA (Stellantis) decide to go away from the Rotella T6?

It puts an owner in a tough predicament because using T6 may extend engine life significantly, but, it also may void warranty IF an engine failure happens. Rock and a hard place.....

You may have answered your own question. Repairs made outside of warranty are good for the company. I know it's a bit of a conspiracy theory, but non warranty repairs are cash hogs.

 

[WXman]

The higher iron # was from the first oil change/OEM oil. You can see it's greatly reduced with the Amsoil. Wear metals is definitely something to keep an eye on in the future.

I'm looking at the one that says it's sample #3. Over 20,000 on the odometer. That was a cycle with Amsoil, correct?

 

[JGRaider]

Right. Sample #3, iron number is not highlighted, therefore normal is the way I read it. Otherwise it would be highlighted. That was my 2nd Amsoil cycle.

 

[WXman]

Right. Sample #3, iron number is not highlighted, therefore normal is the way I read it. Otherwise it would be highlighted. That was my 2nd Amsoil cycle.

Yeah, and that's what I was saying is that your iron numbers were higher than mine, and mine were much higher than universal averages for these vehicles according to Blackstone Labs. The iron and aluminum is worrisome with these engines and I hope that it's because of FCA's choice of oil spec and not because of internal design, because oil can be changed easily. I guess a little more time and testing will tell. I'm going to try the Quaker State, which is similar to the factory oil for a while. If that doesn't decrease wear I'm going to run a couple of cycles of Rotella for even more data.