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Knock from bottom end on cold starts and in gear

dork17

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I'm hearing a rhythmic knock on a cold start when I put the truck into gear. Idle sounds perfectly fine in park, but when I shift into reverse or drive then that is when the knock pronounces itself. Is this normal? It sounds like a bit of a diesel knock. When the truck is warm, the noise is gone. I found this thread which is the same sound as I'm hearing, yet the thread died without answers. The sound seems like it's coming from the bottom near the oil pan area. 50k miles on truck, 2019 hemi.

Thanks for any insight.
 

Geddyflea

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I'm hearing a rhythmic knock on a cold start when I put the truck into gear. Idle sounds perfectly fine in park, but when I shift into reverse or drive then that is when the knock pronounces itself. Is this normal? It sounds like a bit of a diesel knock. When the truck is warm, the noise is gone. I found this thread which is the same sound as I'm hearing, yet the thread died without answers. The sound seems like it's coming from the bottom near the oil pan area. 50k miles on truck, 2019 hemi.

Thanks for any insight.
It sounds like your main bearings might be extremely worn. Have you found any signs of coppery looking metal in your oil when changing it?
 

dork17

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It sounds like your bearings might be extremely worn. Have you found any signs of coppery looking metal in your oil when changing it?
No, none at all. It seems to just be when the engine is "under load" at low rpm (drive selected but foot on brake). If it were a bearing issue, would the sound be going away when the truck is at operating temp?
 

Geddyflea

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No, none at all. It seems to just be when the engine is "under load" at low rpm (drive selected but foot on brake). If it were a bearing issue, would the sound be going away when the truck is at operating temp?
It can when the bearings first start to excessively wear. When the engine warms everything will expand causing the knock to stop. Given enough time the wear will get so bad that it will continuously knock and finally seize (or throw a rod through the engine block). This may not be your problem, but kinda sounds like it.
 

dork17

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It can when the bearings first start to excessively wear. When the engine warms everything will expand causing the knock to stop. Given enough time the wear will get so bad that it will continuously knock and finally seize (or throw a rod through the engine block). This may not be your problem, but kinda sounds like it.
I took a listen with a stethoscope. With the knocking present, I took a listen throughout the oil pan and bottom of the motor. Couldnt pick up the knock at all. From the top, I could hear it better. Seemed to be most audible on the driver side top of the motor. Does anyone know if a cracked manifold produces a KNOCK sound until warm? I full well know what the TICK sound is, because I had a broken bolt on the passenger side.
 

silver billet

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I took a listen with a stethoscope. With the knocking present, I took a listen throughout the oil pan and bottom of the motor. Couldnt pick up the knock at all. From the top, I could hear it better. Seemed to be most audible on the driver side top of the motor. Does anyone know if a cracked manifold produces a KNOCK sound until warm? I full well know what the TICK sound is, because I had a broken bolt on the passenger side.

I posted in the linked thread, I have the identical sound and have tried various ways to get rid of it, nothing works. It only shows up on a cold start on a cold day. Cold start on a hot summer day like today, it's either not there or very very minor. So it is definitely temperature related.

I heavily doubt it is a worn bearing issue, mine has done it for 4 years now and since the day I bought it new. It now has 55,000 miles on it which is a long time to be running with "worn bearings". UOA reports show no signs of danger whatsoever, copper is slightly higher vs other 5.7 hemis but that's because of the cooling system in our trucks that other 5.7s like the charger/challenger don't have. Other wear materials in my engine like iron and aluminum are better than average.

Once I noticed the noise and looked for it, it hasn't gotten worse or "progressed" in volume or intensity. It only varies based on outside temps and engine load, so this problem isn't getting worse with time.

The key things that identify this issue vs other known hemi noise issues:
- only happens when cold (both outside temp and engine temp)
- becomes signifcantly louder when a load is placed on the engine (drive/reverse)
- gradually disappears when truck warms up and does not occur on a hot start, my truck is extremely quiet and buttery smooth at hot temps.

The fact that it doesn't show up when hot rules out lifter tick/failure.
The fact that it gets louder/softer depending on load rules out exhaust issues (manifold/bolts).

This is also sounds like a "knock" and not a "tick" like exhaust or lifters. My best guess after digging around for quite a bit, is that it is indeed piston slap.

What oil are you running? Weight + brand?
And secondly, do you use MDS or disable it?
 

dork17

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I posted in the linked thread, I have the identical sound and have tried various ways to get rid of it, nothing works. It only shows up on a cold start on a cold day. Cold start on a hot summer day like today, it's either not there or very very minor. So it is definitely temperature related.

I heavily doubt it is a worn bearing issue, mine has done it for 4 years now and since the day I bought it new. It now has 55,000 miles on it which is a long time to be running with "worn bearings". UOA reports show no signs of danger whatsoever, copper is slightly higher vs other 5.7 hemis but that's because of the cooling system in our trucks that other 5.7s like the charger/challenger don't have. Other wear materials in my engine like iron and aluminum are better than average.

Once I noticed the noise and looked for it, it hasn't gotten worse or "progressed" in volume or intensity. It only varies based on outside temps and engine load, so this problem isn't getting worse with time.

The key things that identify this issue vs other known hemi noise issues:
- only happens when cold (both outside temp and engine temp)
- becomes signifcantly louder when a load is placed on the engine (drive/reverse)
- gradually disappears when truck warms up and does not occur on a hot start, my truck is extremely quiet and buttery smooth at hot temps.

The fact that it doesn't show up when hot rules out lifter tick/failure.
The fact that it gets louder/softer depending on load rules out exhaust issues (manifold/bolts).

This is also sounds like a "knock" and not a "tick" like exhaust or lifters. My best guess after digging around for quite a bit, is that it is indeed piston slap.

What oil are you running? Weight + brand?
And secondly, do you use MDS or disable it?
Hey thanks for the detailed reply. Thats the best info I've gotten so far. It's a frustrating problem to research because anytime the word "knock" is mentioned, everyone assumes you are referring to the well-known ticks and 99% of the information on the internet is related to the manifold ticks and lifter troubles. It's a new to me truck and only has a few months of warranty left, so its reasssuring to hear that your truck has been reliable for many miles. It seems I can quit nitpicking this truck's engine and enjoy it. I'll probably book it in just to get it documented, because I'm quite certain at this point that I won't get any groundbreaking news from the service centre.

Currently I'm using Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20. I haven't touched any of the MDS stuff.
 

mffdvr

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I fired up the truck on Saturday (cold start) and out of nowhere, I heard what I thought was the infamous Hemi Tick...turns out it was persistent and sounded like a deck of cards in a bicycle spoke. Took it in yesterday and it was confirmed to be a "bottom end noise" (either a rod or a piston) and they're replacing the entire motor. Great...22k miles. :rolleyes: Pressing them to provide me rental car coverage since they did away with loaners during the pandemic. Needless to say, I hope 5.7 eTorque isn't on backorder and we can get some resolution in a couple weeks at most. ...then I can think about selling it. Too many issues (recalls, software glitches, window leaks, etc). :cautious:
 

dork17

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I fired up the truck on Saturday (cold start) and out of nowhere, I heard what I thought was the infamous Hemi Tick...turns out it was persistent and sounded like a deck of cards in a bicycle spoke. Took it in yesterday and it was confirmed to be a "bottom end noise" (either a rod or a piston) and they're replacing the entire motor. Great...22k miles. :rolleyes: Pressing them to provide me rental car coverage since they did away with loaners during the pandemic. Needless to say, I hope 5.7 eTorque isn't on backorder and we can get some resolution in a couple weeks at most. ...then I can think about selling it. Too many issues (recalls, software glitches, window leaks, etc). :cautious:
Yikes. Did it sound anything like THIS? Yeah, it's really too bad reading about the issues... but hey I guess you got 22k "Free" miles on your truck. And a reset on your powertain warranty..
I think the best thing for any Ram owner's health is if you aren't experiencing any issues at the moment, stay off of forums!
 

mffdvr

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Yikes. Did it sound anything like THIS? Yeah, it's really too bad reading about the issues... but hey I guess you got 22k "Free" miles on your truck. And a reset on your powertain warranty..
I think the best thing for any Ram owner's health is if you aren't experiencing any issues at the moment, stay off of forums!
Very similar, yes...I'm sorry to say. Faster 'slap' during acceleration and didn't go away as I drove straight to the dealer and it warmed up, so our issues might differ if your tick goes away once warm.
Guy at the service desk asked to hear it, so we went out and restarted things. "Yikes, hurry up and turn that off." is what he said to me. 🥲
 

gunsnfunz

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Yikes. Did it sound anything like THIS? Yeah, it's really too bad reading about the issues... but hey I guess you got 22k "Free" miles on your truck. And a reset on your powertain warranty..
I think the best thing for any Ram owner's health is if you aren't experiencing any issues at the moment, stay off of forums!
Any update on your truck or figure out the issue mine has an identical sound only on cold starts and only in gear for about a year now only 31k miles
 

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