In and out of dealership. Barely saw car for 6 months. Can't fix car.

[askthesun]

Hello,
- 2020 ram 1500 limited (with comma3 autonomous driving)
- engine light for P047B OBD-II: Exhaust Pressure Sensor "B" Circuit Range/Performance came up
- took to one dealership, wanted $3.5k to replace EGR cooler
- took to another, local dealership for second opinion, cleaned the pipes and replaced sensor > $1k
- engine light kept coming on after about 20-70 mile drives. After second time in dealership, they barely drove it for 2 miles before returning it back even though I told them light reappearing may require driving 70 miles.
- Now third time in dealership, barely saw car for past 6 months
- Asked dealership why so long "we don't have time to drive car for 70 miles" so offered them to pick up car, drive it, and bring back but they didn't want to do that

My questions:
1. What would be your next step? The car is used for my business and its absence resulted in loss of some business.
2. If take car back, want refund for the >$1k I paid since didn't fix issue. Should I do small claims if dealership refuses?
3. Anyone dealt with this issue? Any recommendations on how to fix?

Thank you

 

[HSKR R/T]

Hello,
- 2020 ram 1500 limited (with comma3 autonomous driving)
- engine light for P047B OBD-II: Exhaust Pressure Sensor "B" Circuit Range/Performance came up
- took to one dealership, wanted $3.5k to replace EGR cooler
- took to another, local dealership for second opinion, cleaned the pipes and replaced sensor > $1k
- engine light kept coming on after about 20-70 mile drives. After second time in dealership, they barely drove it for 2 miles before returning it back even though I told them light reappearing may require driving 70 miles.
- Now third time in dealership, barely saw car for past 6 months
- Asked dealership why so long "we don't have time to drive car for 70 miles" so offered them to pick up car, drive it, and bring back but they didn't want to do that

My questions:
1. What would be your next step? The car is used for my business and its absence resulted in loss of some business.
2. If take car back, want refund for the >$1k I paid since didn't fix issue. Should I do small claims if dealership refuses?
3. Anyone dealt with this issue? Any recommendations on how to fix?

Thank you

When the light comes on, is performance or driveability effected? I wouldn't expect the dealer to be able to do 70 mile test drives . Or even a private ship for that matter.

If you don't have an extended warranty, the dealer may not be the best place to be taking it.

 

[askthesun]

When the light comes on, is performance or driveability effected? I wouldn't expect the dealer to be able to do 70 mile test drives . Or even a private ship for that matter.

If you don't have an extended warranty, the dealer may not be the best place to be taking it.

Neither performance nor driveability seem to be affected. Tried local shops before going to the dealer. The few established ones shy away from diesel and recommend taking to dealer. Others not well established so wary about leaving car with them.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Neither performance nor driveability seem to be affected. Tried local shops before going to the dealer. The few established ones shy away from diesel and recommend taking to dealer. Others not well established so wary about leaving car with them.

Im sure you've already done imthis, but some quick Google searching shows possible issues are the sensor, the tube to the sensor, or the turbo itself. Sounds like they have replaced the sensor and cleaned the tube.

Woukd sick to replace the turbo and not fix it. Could there possibly be an exhaust leak? Would really need to know what the sensor is reading when it throws the code. If the pressure is reading high or low.

 

[RamCares]

Hello,
- 2020 ram 1500 limited (with comma3 autonomous driving)
- engine light for P047B OBD-II: Exhaust Pressure Sensor "B" Circuit Range/Performance came up
- took to one dealership, wanted $3.5k to replace EGR cooler
- took to another, local dealership for second opinion, cleaned the pipes and replaced sensor > $1k
- engine light kept coming on after about 20-70 mile drives. After second time in dealership, they barely drove it for 2 miles before returning it back even though I told them light reappearing may require driving 70 miles.
- Now third time in dealership, barely saw car for past 6 months
- Asked dealership why so long "we don't have time to drive car for 70 miles" so offered them to pick up car, drive it, and bring back but they didn't want to do that

My questions:
1. What would be your next step? The car is used for my business and its absence resulted in loss of some business.
2. If take car back, want refund for the >$1k I paid since didn't fix issue. Should I do small claims if dealership refuses?
3. Anyone dealt with this issue? Any recommendations on how to fix?

Thank you

We're incredibly sorry to hear that you're facing concerns as such. If able, please reach out to us directly. Our team would like to document and look into this for potential routes of assistance. Thank you, and we hope to hear from you soon.

Chris,
Ram Cares

 

[Quint]

#1 - there are no guarantees offered by auto shops that their fixes will fix the problem. I don't know how you can take them to small claims for that $1k fix. They tried their best and it sounds like you declined the EGR replacement.

#2 - it's crazy for the dealer to hold onto your truck for 6 months with no plans to diagnose the problem. Just get it from them and stop losing business.

 

[askthesun]

#1 - there are no guarantees offered by auto shops that their fixes will fix the problem. I don't know how you can take them to small claims for that $1k fix. They tried their best and it sounds like you declined the EGR replacement.

#2 - it's crazy for the dealer to hold onto your truck for 6 months with no plans to diagnose the problem. Just get it from them and stop losing business.

I declined EGR replacement in another dealership to get a second opinion since it was a $3.5k repair. The dealership that car is in currently also offers warranty on their services. They didn't hold car for 6 months straight, it was in and out for six months. When i told them it wasn't repaired, put me on a waitlist every time for about a week. But barely able to use car for 6 months.

If you bring your car to shop to fix a problem, there is a contract between you and the shop once a payment is provided. The payment is for the resolution of the problem, not for trying. Otherwise, if you bring your car to change oil, for example, and the dealership changes your tire instead, you'd have no legal discourse because "they tried." This is not the case.

 

[Quint]

If you bring your car to shop to fix a problem, there is a contract between you and the shop once a payment is provided. The payment is for the resolution of the problem, not for trying. Otherwise, if you bring your car to change oil, for example, and the dealership changes your tire instead, you'd have no legal discourse because "they tried." This is not the case.

When you authorize the shop to "clean the pipes and replace a sensor" then the payment is for those goods and services. The verbal or written contract is for the parts and service, period. The only grounds you have to stand upon is if you took the truck in, said that it wasn't working, and they said that "they would fix it" for $XXX price. Shops don't typically do that. They diagnose the problem, suggest a solution, and ask for your authorization to proceed with the suggested resolution. It's the vehicle owner's call to move forward, and the owner always has the option of taking it for second opinions.

Your best bet is to go for a third opinion somewhere and pay for the diagnostic. You could then negotiate with the second shop for the next repair and ask that they reduce the labor charge on the pipe cleaning and sensor replacement. They paid for the parts and paid an employee to do the work in an honest effort to fix your vehicle's problem.

 

[askthesun]

When you authorize the shop to "clean the pipes and replace a sensor" then the payment is for those goods and services. The verbal or written contract is for the parts and service, period. The only grounds you have to stand upon is if you took the truck in, said that it wasn't working, and they said that "they would fix it" for $XXX price. Shops don't typically do that. They diagnose the problem, suggest a solution, and ask for your authorization to proceed with the suggested resolution. It's the vehicle owner's call to move forward, and the owner always has the option of taking it for second opinions.

Your best bet is to go for a third opinion somewhere and pay for the diagnostic. You could then negotiate with the second shop for the next repair and ask that they reduce the labor charge on the pipe cleaning and sensor replacement. They paid for the parts and paid an employee to do the work in an honest effort to fix your vehicle's problem.

I realize you are attempting to help and appreciate it (and you might actually be right) so am not going to go back and forth regarding contract law, but in a gist, me authorizing "clean pipes..." is based on a professional recommendation that this would resolve the issue. If shop would state "clean pipe.... would not resolve the issue" any reasonable human being would not authorize it. To assume that it is the vehicles owner's call is similar to assuming it is a patient's call based on a physician's recommendation -- you are basing your call based on the professional service you are paying for. If a physician makes a mistake, regardless of what resources the physician input into the job, he is liable. Shops don't have some exemption regarding this compared to other professional services and I do have some knowledge and experience about contract law, as incomplete as it may be.

BTW, re " and ask for your authorization to proceed with the suggested resolution." This dealership didn't actually call me for authorization. They just applied the "solution" and then called me to pick up the truck. I was just relieved that the issue was "resolved" costing only 1k instead of 3.5k I didn't make a fuss about it.

 

[RedFred]

I realize you are attempting to help and appreciate it (and you might actually be right) so am not going to go back and forth regarding contract law, but in a gist, me authorizing "clean pipes..." is based on a professional recommendation that this would resolve the issue. If shop would state "clean pipe.... would not resolve the issue" any reasonable human being would not authorize it. To assume that it is the vehicles owner's call is similar to assuming it is a patient's call based on a physician's recommendation -- you are basing your call based on the professional service you are paying for. If a physician makes a mistake, regardless of what resources the physician input into the job, he is liable. Shops don't have some exemption regarding this compared to other professional services and I do have some knowledge and experience about contract law, as incomplete as it may be.

BTW, re " and ask for your authorization to proceed with the suggested resolution." This dealership didn't actually call me for authorization. They just applied the "solution" and then called me to pick up the truck. I was just relieved that the issue was "resolved" costing only 1k instead of 3.5k I didn't make a fuss about it.

This sounds comical and childish. One shop offered you a repair for $3.5k, you declined because you wanted a cheaper repair. The cheaper repair didn't work out for you and now you want someone else to pay for the parts and services they supplied. You keep saying the dealership made a mistake, what mistake? They performed the services you agreed upon. Did they not perform the work they were supposed to?

 

[askthesun]

You think that requesting a second opinion for a repair that is about 10% value of your vehicle is comical and childish? In fact, that is an advice I got on this forum.... You think because a repair was "cheaper" (even though it was a different dealership altogether) it should not be a repair? When you go to a professional, do you pay them to perform a service or do you pay them to get a result? I never said they made a mistake though it is implied considering they are unable to resolve the issue. I stated the facts -- the car has been in and out for nearly 6 months despite "repairs" and despite dealership doing what they want without me, at any point, requesting them to take shortcuts or cheaper solutions. Not to mention I went out of my way to be patient with their lack of professionalism, communication, and competence. I even told them -- if you don't think you can handle this problem or have no time to deal with it, provide me a refund and I will take it to another dealership. Yet, despite telling them that and that they need to drive at least 20 miles on the car to check if engine light comes back, they returned the car after driving it barely 2 miles the second time it was in. When I called back, they again put me on a wait list for a week.

I wouldn't even bother responding to such comments unless such comments might give others on the forum the wrong impression that they have no options but to be screwed by dealership. Anyway, thank you for your mature and invaluable response... Ram and other American car manufacturers then wonder why people prefer Japanese cars.... How about you invest in mechanics who don't call you asking "what's wrong with your mirrors" because I folded the mirrors and had to tell them to just pull the mirrors out!?

 

[RedFred]

You think that requesting a second opinion for a repair that is about 10% value of your vehicle is comical and childish? In fact, that is an advice I got on this forum.... You think because a repair was "cheaper" (even though it was a different dealership altogether) it should not be a repair? When you go to a professional, do you pay them to perform a service or do you pay them to get a result? I never said they made a mistake though it is implied considering they are unable to resolve the issue. I stated the facts -- the car has been in and out for nearly 6 months despite "repairs" and despite dealership doing what they want without me, at any point, requesting them to take shortcuts or cheaper solutions. Not to mention I went out of my way to be patient with their lack of professionalism, communication, and competence. I even told them -- if you don't think you can handle this problem or have no time to deal with it, provide me a refund and I will take it to another dealership. Yet, despite telling them that and that they need to drive at least 20 miles on the car to check if engine light comes back, they returned the car after driving it barely 2 miles the second time it was in. When I called back, they again put me on a wait list for a week.

I wouldn't even bother responding to such comments unless such comments might give others on the forum the wrong impression that they have no options but to be screwed by dealership. Anyway, thank you for your mature and invaluable response... Ram and other American car manufacturers then wonder why people prefer Japanese cars.... How about you invest in mechanics who don't call you asking "what's wrong with your mirrors" because I folded the mirrors and had to tell them to just pull the mirrors out!?

It's not you going for a second opinion that is comical or childish, but just your response and attitude toward the whole matter. In addition to that, I don't believe you are being completely honest with what you are telling us when you say the dealership took the liberty to do whatever repairs they felt necessary without consulting you. Obviously you were not ok with paying the $3.5k one dealership quoted you, so I doubt you gave this dealership an open checkbook. There must have been some discussion on what was going to be done and the cost, especially considering the bill was only $1k. If they were given an open checkbook, they would have taken advantage of it.

 

[askthesun]

It's not you going for a second opinion that is comical or childish, but just your response and attitude toward the whole matter. In addition to that, I don't believe you are being completely honest with what you are telling us when you say the dealership took the liberty to do whatever repairs they felt necessary without consulting you. Obviously you were not ok with paying the $3.5k one dealership quoted you, so I doubt you gave this dealership an open checkbook. There must have been some discussion on what was going to be done and the cost, especially considering the bill was only $1k. If they were given an open checkbook, they would have taken advantage of it.

Completely honest about all the details (so far as my memory can recollect after all it's been almost 6 months.). They called me for authorizing initially, told them go on (without knowing cost of repair btw), but that was a different stage of the repair. In fact, after about two weeks of not hearing anything from them the first time, called them for a week without receiving a response until I eventually called them and said that if I am not getting an update about the repair, I am picking up my car. I never knew about the replacement of the sensor and some other things they did until they called me to pick up the car and then told me the cost. Not sure why you're dwelling on that though considering I stated that wasn't a big deal for me so long as the car was repaired.

Why would I go to a forum requesting advice then provide dishonest info!? You see, you are the ones who is childish, not thinking things through, and making assumptions. And you still didn't provide details about what was childish "Just the response...." Seems like you are here to blow off some steam, which is ok -- you get these bad apples in most discussion forums. But don't derail the discussion based on assumptions unless you can provide proof, which you can't.

 

[RedFred]

Completely honest about all the details (so far as my memory can recollect after all it's been almost 6 months.). They called me for authorizing initially, told them go on (without knowing cost of repair btw), but that was a different stage of the repair. In fact, after about two weeks of not hearing anything from them the first time, called them for a week without receiving a response until I eventually called them and said that if I am not getting an update about the repair, I am picking up my car. I never knew about the replacement of the sensor and some other things they did until they called me to pick up the car and then told me the cost. Not sure why you're dwelling on that though considering I stated that wasn't a big deal for me so long as the car was repaired.

Why would I go to a forum requesting advice then provide dishonest info!? You see, you are the ones who is childish, not thinking things through, and making assumptions. And you still didn't provide details about what was childish "Just the response...." Seems like you are here to blow off some steam, which is ok -- you get these bad apples in most discussion forums. But don't derail the discussion based on assumptions unless you can provide proof, which you can't.

There is always 2 sides to every story, and then there is the truth. When I say you are acting childish, it refers to the way you are handling the situation and threatening to take them to small claims court. If the car is still not repaired, talk to the service manager and see what they can do for you. Explain that you already paid "x" amount of dollars and the problem is still not resolved. They probably won't refund you your money, but maybe they can give you some break or credit moving forward. I'm not sure what conversations you have had with them about the cost of repair, but I suspect it may be effecting how much time they spend on your car and what priority they make it. If you tell them, "hey I don't want to spend "x" amount on a repair", then they may try to work with you to troubleshoot with the least expensive solutions first on a timeline that works for them and doesn't interfere with other customer jobs. That may explain why your truck is taking so long to get looked at and maybe why it wasn't repaired correctly. I really don't know what conversations you had, but I suspect that maybe we are not getting the whole story here. The fact that you have brought the truck in numerous times and they had the truck for the most part of 6 months and they have only charged you $1k so far, doesn't all add up to me.

 

[rick619]

This is a tough one. $3.5K is a lot, but honestly reasonable for a 5yo vehicle. How many miles do you have on it? I'd assume mileage is higher if you're using it for work.

I'd discuss with the service tech and manager: If you pay the $3.5K, and it's not fixed, do you get your money back? Also maybe have the dealer that charged $1K do the $3.5K job and see if they'll subtract $1000, or at least work with you on the price.

My wife had the transmission replaced on her 2019 Ford Expedition after it was about 3K miles out of warranty. After politely trying to get them to cover it since we were having some problems before the warranty expired, they agreed to cover 60% of it, making the replacement $4400. So they can likely work with you on the price. Just depends on the dealer and management.

Taking them to small claims: This is up to you, though you would have to prove that it was a mistake and not maintenance. The maintenance might be something suggested. Keep in mind they would likely send a skilled tech to court and you'd have to argue with him and convince the judge you're right. Even if you win, you end up with a 'judgement' and $0. You would then have to collect which is tricky and can also depend on the dealer/owner/management, etc. So this should be a last resort and should be done when all is said and done. Better to try and work it out with a price adjustment.

Regarding the 20-70 mile drive. I'd insist on picking it up and doing that drive yourself. I can't see the dealer actually driving it around.

Also notable is many of the Ram dealers seem backlogged with too many vehicles. Mine wouldn't start after 7 days of not using it. Long story short, it took them 8 business days to replace the battery. Normal for all repairs (per the dealer) is it sits for 3-5 days before they even look at it. So mine is going to a different dealer next time that *claims* they don't have that kind of waiting period. We'll see...

Of course, last resort it to sell it or trade it in for something else. Doesn't seem like you're at that point yet. Though if you pay the $3.5K and it's still not fixed, maybe then it's a consideration?

 

[askthesun]

This is a tough one. $3.5K is a lot, but honestly reasonable for a 5yo vehicle. How many miles do you have on it? I'd assume mileage is higher if you're using it for work.

I'd discuss with the service tech and manager: If you pay the $3.5K, and it's not fixed, do you get your money back? Also maybe have the dealer that charged $1K do the $3.5K job and see if they'll subtract $1000, or at least work with you on the price.

My wife had the transmission replaced on her 2019 Ford Expedition after it was about 3K miles out of warranty. After politely trying to get them to cover it since we were having some problems before the warranty expired, they agreed to cover 60% of it, making the replacement $4400. So they can likely work with you on the price. Just depends on the dealer and management.

Taking them to small claims: This is up to you, though you would have to prove that it was a mistake and not maintenance. The maintenance might be something suggested. Keep in mind they would likely send a skilled tech to court and you'd have to argue with him and convince the judge you're right. Even if you win, you end up with a 'judgement' and $0. You would then have to collect which is tricky and can also depend on the dealer/owner/management, etc. So this should be a last resort and should be done when all is said and done. Better to try and work it out with a price adjustment.

Regarding the 20-70 mile drive. I'd insist on picking it up and doing that drive yourself. I can't see the dealer actually driving it around.

Also notable is many of the Ram dealers seem backlogged with too many vehicles. Mine wouldn't start after 7 days of not using it. Long story short, it took them 8 business days to replace the battery. Normal for all repairs (per the dealer) is it sits for 3-5 days before they even look at it. So mine is going to a different dealer next time that *claims* they don't have that kind of waiting period. We'll see...

Of course, last resort it to sell it or trade it in for something else. Doesn't seem like you're at that point yet. Though if you pay the $3.5K and it's still not fixed, maybe then it's a consideration?

50k. Very well kept. At this point, I don't have a problem paying 3.5k just get it fixed. I never had a problem paying to get it fixed but when a dealership states $3.5k for repair, makes sense to get a second opinion. After all, factually, this dealership's diagnosis was different from former dealership. I lost way more due to its absence from my business operations. Re: insisting to drive 20-70 miles themselves, after keeping the car for 10 days or so this time, I asked them for update. They told me they dont have time to drive car so I told them I can pick car, drive it, and bring it back if/when engine light comes back on. They just ghosted me. Even though I only recently purchased it and it's a great car I'd like to keep, I spoke with the sales department but they gave me a very low offer, possibly leveraging the car requiring repair and me needing a car for business. Anyway, thanks for reply.

 

[rick619]

Especially since it has low miles, I would just get it done. Sounds like you're headed in that direction anyway.

 

[askthesun]

Well... to all you prospective RAM owners out there, enjoyed the car for the 6 or so months I had it running, then barely saw it. Only 50k miles on car. Current situation - car in dealership for exactly a month now (this is third time, overall nearly six months at dealership), the only update I received from dealership was 10 days ago and it was "no updates yet he is going to drive it again today," and been ignored by dealership since yesterday when requesting an update twice. Take that into consideration when shopping around for cars.

p.s RAMCares (on this forum) immediately requested that I contact it so that they can help. Well, in private chat, it took them 3 days (after I asked them for an update as well) to reply and their reply - When was the last time you were at the dealership? Could they not have found that the moment they were provided the VIN (Monday) using their dealership database!?

 

[HSKR R/T]

Well... to all you prospective RAM owners out there, enjoyed the car for the 6 or so months I had it running, then barely saw it. Only 50k miles on car. Current situation - car in dealership for exactly a month now (this is third time, overall nearly six months at dealership), the only update I received from dealership was 10 days ago and it was "no updates yet he is going to drive it again today," and been ignored by dealership since yesterday when requesting an update twice. Take that into consideration when shopping around for cars.

p.s RAMCares (on this forum) immediately requested that I contact it so that they can help. Well, in private chat, it took them 3 days (after I asked them for an update as well) to reply and their reply - When was the last time you were at the dealership? Could they not have found that the moment they were provided the VIN (Monday) using their dealership database!?

Sounds like more of an issue with the dealership than RAM itself.

 

[rick619]

Well... to all you prospective RAM owners out there, enjoyed the car for the 6 or so months I had it running, then barely saw it. Only 50k miles on car. Current situation - car in dealership for exactly a month now (this is third time, overall nearly six months at dealership), the only update I received from dealership was 10 days ago and it was "no updates yet he is going to drive it again today," and been ignored by dealership since yesterday when requesting an update twice. Take that into consideration when shopping around for cars.

p.s RAMCares (on this forum) immediately requested that I contact it so that they can help. Well, in private chat, it took them 3 days (after I asked them for an update as well) to reply and their reply - When was the last time you were at the dealership? Could they not have found that the moment they were provided the VIN (Monday) using their dealership database!?

That does seem to be an issue with Ram. I've had mine for 15 months and been to the dealer twice. Both times they let it set for 3+ days before starting on it. Though as said above, trying a different dealer next time.

Meanwhile my wife had major issues repaired with her Ford Expedition and both times they were pretty quick. The transmission replacement was 4 days. Cam phasers was a week (luckily that one was under warranty). Hopefully will have my Ram for a long time, but will consider this next time it's time to replace the truck.