HK subwoofer ohm rating

[Buz]

Well based on what I am reading hear I must be pretty lucky. Since the update I received in the summer, my sub is nice and punchy and crisp. It was not so good prior to this update so perhaps this would help others here that have been mentioning the poor sound quality of the bass.

Can you elaborate on the 'update you received in the summer"?
Assuming you have the H/K system, was it super boomy before the update? Or did you have the earlier version issue with not enough volume?

 

[Buz]

Please give your feedback through the FCA survey. FCA actually pays attention to their customer feedback. If you can be a little more specific as to what you are missing with the system sound it would be a great help. What's missing in the low end that you don't like in the 202 system? What are your ears not hearing that was present in the 2011 Laramie?
If you live in the Detroit area...maybe we can have a look at your vehicle to see if it's doing what it should be doing.

Seriously dude?

You self admit at the beginning of this thread that you are "an engineer who works on FCA speakers" and are very familiar with the H/K system.
Yet listen to what you're asking the poster in your quote above? Treating him like you have no idea what he's talking about.
You are either terribly underqualified for your job OR you know exactly how bad the H/K subwoofer/amp combo sucks.

Either way I can see why you dropped out of this thread.

Thanks for being on the team that allowed the H/K Subwoofer/Amp setup to make to production vehicles.

 

[MF2020]

Can you elaborate on the 'update you received in the summer"?
Assuming you have the H/K system, was it super boomy before the update? Or did you have the earlier version issue with not enough volume?

The update came as I was sitting in a parking lot with the truck running. the system broadcast a message on the 12" screen that indicated an update to the system was available and ready for down load and not turn off the vehicle for up to 10 minutes. I stayed in the vehicle while the down load happened and the update ultimately rebooted the system and after that the stereo was significantly improved. Prior to this I was complaining that it wasn't very loud, had muffled boomy sounding bass and that all the music sounded flat and lacked depth and richness. Bass is crisp and punchy now and the music is clean and clear not muffled as it was. And yes, I have the HK system and absolutely was disappointed until this update.

 

[toyboy1980]

The update came as I was sitting in a parking lot with the truck running. the system broadcast a message on the 12" screen that indicated an update to the system was available and ready for down load and not turn off the vehicle for up to 10 minutes. I stayed in the vehicle while the down load happened and the update ultimately rebooted the system and after that the stereo was significantly improved. Prior to this I was complaining that it wasn't very loud, had muffled boomy sounding bass and that all the music sounded flat and lacked depth and richness. Bass is crisp and punchy now and the music is clean and clear not muffled as it was. And yes, I have the HK system and absolutely was disappointed until this update.

Well that’s interesting. Are these systems known to update over-the-air like is being described here?

 

[392DCGC]

The update came as I was sitting in a parking lot with the truck running. the system broadcast a message on the 12" screen that indicated an update to the system was available and ready for down load and not turn off the vehicle for up to 10 minutes. I stayed in the vehicle while the down load happened and the update ultimately rebooted the system and after that the stereo was significantly improved. Prior to this I was complaining that it wasn't very loud, had muffled boomy sounding bass and that all the music sounded flat and lacked depth and richness. Bass is crisp and punchy now and the music is clean and clear not muffled as it was. And yes, I have the HK system and absolutely was disappointed until this update.

Well that’s interesting. Are these systems known to update over-the-air like is being described here?

To my knowledge, the amplifier cannot be updated OTA. So whatever update you received likely did not change your sound system.

 

[JustCallMeD]

Just chiming in to add to the comments hoping that FCA actually does something to improve the HK system.

As stated before in multiple threads. The subwoofer is definitely not up to par with even my 2015 Alpine system. I have noticed an improvement after multiple months of break in time but that hasn't fixed the terrible roll off at full volume when any bass kicks in, all the other speakers lower to compensate what seems like the power drain that occurs from when bass is needed to the sub. The timing of each speaker is terrible and out of alignment for sure. Sounds are hitting the drivers ears at all different times from each speaker, just like tuning any other multiple speaker system timing and distance is critical which this system seems like the microphone was put in the middle of the center console. I've had to adjust the balance almost all the way to the rear just to compensate for the way overpowering front stage and it's still not that good. Opening the sunroof fabric roll cover helps as more sounds reflects from the back into the front.

I'll be disconnecting the sub as well and most likely looking into aftermarket devices for level and timing adjustments.

This could definitely be resolved by simply adding a proper eq and timing adjustments to be possible from the unconnected system.

Also of course us the rear sliding window rattle as well which sucks anytime its open.

FCA Harman/Kardon RAM please help and get out a software update so we can make our own adjustments! 93,500 CAD truck shouldn't need this much improvement. It's like the system was tuned in a regular cab and the same tune was used for everything....

I don't know how to tag ramcares yet on the forum so if someone knows please tag them in this post.

 

[392DCGC]

Music is stereo and generally should only be coming from directly in front of you. I don't know why you think there should be any rear fill or equally weighted sound coming from the rear, but if that's what you like, go for it. As for the rear window rattle, search here on the forums. Some of us solved it by jamming 16 gauge wire up along some of the track channel to tighten up the assembly, completely eliminating the rattle.

 

[JustCallMeD]

Music is stereo and generally should only be coming from directly in front of you. I don't know why you think there should be any rear fill or equally weighted sound coming from the rear, but if that's what you like, go for it. As for the rear window rattle, search here on the forums. Some of us solved it by jamming 16 gauge wire up along some of the track channel to tighten up the assembly, completely eliminating the rattle.

Understood, since it's a vehicle and not movie setup it's more of a personal preference for me than because we'll always be listening to sounds coming from all the speakers front and rear. Even in my 9.2 surround at home when in music stereo mode the soundstage is set to be equal volume from all speakers and when in pro logic the same deal but only rear and surrounds when needed depending on source signal. I do like to have the sound coming equally from front and rear but I could live with the front sound stage being heavier if the speakers were phased and timed correctly which I do not believe they are. Meaning at least the front speakers should be at equal volume and timing from each side speaker.

 

[Walywrld1]

I have to say, I am disappointed by the HK system in my Limited. It lacks clariry, its boomy, muddled... just not crisp and clean. Not sure that is a technophile description. My other car is an Audi Q5 with the B&O system. Every time I get back in the Audi I am reminded how bad the HK system is. The truck is outstanding in every other way! Is there any hope there is a solution?

 

[Walywrld1]

Well based on what I am reading hear I must be pretty lucky. Since the update I received in the summer, my sub is nice and punchy and crisp. It was not so good prior to this update so perhaps this would help others here that have been mentioning the poor sound quality of the bass.

What is this update I keep reading about?

 

[392DCGC]

What is this update I keep reading about?

The only update I am aware of was, I believe, late 2018/early 2019. It increased volume and maybe bass. There has not been any amplifier update for the HK system since.

 

[Buz]

I have to say, I am disappointed by the HK system in my Limited. It lacks clariry, its boomy, muddled... just not crisp and clean. Not sure that is a technophile description. My other car is an Audi Q5 with the B&O system. Every time I get back in the Audi I am reminded how bad the HK system is. The truck is outstanding in every other way! Is there any hope there is a solution?

You are spot on with your analysis.
Until a magic update occurs the best you can do is unplug the sub. Makes it much better. It’ll let you actually apply some bass on the EQ. Still won’t be as good as your Audi though.

 

[SPL1992]

Good afternoon and thank you Futureboy 61 for joining the conversation. By way of introduction I retired after 40 years as a JBL dealer and company owner in the touring and AV contracting business. My life has been good sound and I still play in a band (bass and guitar) and love good sound.

I recently purchased a 2021 Ram 1500 Limited with the HK19 speaker system. Overall the system is good with nice imaging and detail but the subwoofer gain and timing have been a problem. I am basing my observations on listing to HR FLAC and DSD files through the USB input. I have not run any tests but my ears tell me that the sub arrives first (to early, ahead of the other speakers) and is roughly 5 to 8 dB to hot (loud). I also believe the crossover is set to high - I would guess 200 Hz and the slope is to low. And, It is very peaky with a noticeable bump round 80 to 100Hz and makes all music sound flabby. Some bass heavy songs like Pink Floyd are unlistenable as all you can hear is that one peak (and this is with the bass control set at -6). Other HK system I have owned in competive cars didn't need any change to the settings - maybe a small "smily face" for some cuts.

I know that the gain structure and signal delay are baked into the amps DSP but was wondering if HK had issued a Service Bulletin to FCA to reduce the gain on the sub and correct the arrival timing for a new Ram? If so what is the Bulletin number? If not is there a way to access the DSP and make a correction on my own or can I hire someone to do that? I would really like to leave the system stock to keep the warranty in place and take advantage of the technology your guys have to work with.

If the DSP cannot be reprogrammed or altered - what do you recommend to a) reduce the subwoofer gain to blend in with a flatter and more balanced playback and b) correct the timing. I would add a coil in the speaker line but that only reduces the highs coming to the sub. I can certainly feed a separate amp/DSP with the sub signal but feel after paying big dollars for this truck it should be right out of the box.

I have owned a number of cars with your systems and they have all been great. This was a disappointing surprise. Any help would be greatly appreciated! And I know from reading the forum that I am not alone in these observations.


Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Buz]

Good afternoon and thank you Futureboy 61 for joining the conversation. By way of introduction I retired after 40 years as a JBL dealer and company owner in the touring and AV contracting business. My life has been good sound and I still play in a band (bass and guitar) and love good sound.

I recently purchased a 2021 Ram 1500 Limited with the HK19 speaker system. Overall the system is good with nice imaging and detail but the subwoofer gain and timing have been a problem. I am basing my observations on listing to HR FLAC and DSD files through the USB input. I have not run any tests but my ears tell me that the sub arrives first (to early, ahead of the other speakers) and is roughly 5 to 8 dB to hot (loud). I also believe the crossover is set to high - I would guess 200 Hz and the slope is to low. And, It is very peaky with a noticeable bump round 80 to 100Hz and makes all music sound flabby. Some bass heavy songs like Pink Floyd are unlistenable as all you can hear is that one peak (and this is with the bass control set at -6). Other HK system I have owned in competive cars didn't need any change to the settings - maybe a small "smily face" for some cuts.

I know that the gain structure and signal delay are baked into the amps DSP but was wondering if HK had issued a Service Bulletin to FCA to reduce the gain on the sub and correct the arrival timing for a new Ram? If so what is the Bulletin number? If not is there a way to access the DSP and make a correction on my own or can I hire someone to do that? I would really like to leave the system stock to keep the warranty in place and take advantage of the technology your guys have to work with.

If the DSP cannot be reprogrammed or altered - what do you recommend to a) reduce the subwoofer gain to blend in with a flatter and more balanced playback and b) correct the timing. I would add a coil in the speaker line but that only reduces the highs coming to the sub. I can certainly feed a separate amp/DSP with the sub signal but feel after paying big dollars for this truck it should be right out of the box.

I have owned a number of cars with your systems and they have all been great. This was a disappointing surprise. Any help would be greatly appreciated! And I know from reading the forum that I am not alone in these observations.


Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Yes you are experiencing exactly what many of us are with the HK system. You are spot on with your observations. Don't bother putting polyfil in the sub, I stuffed it which made is sound worse. Then i took most of the polyfil out and left only the proper amount which didn't do much.
There is no TSB or 'fix' for this system as it comes stock. Seems like we're going to be stuck with it.
The absolute best thing you can do without adding peripherals to your system is to disconnect the sub. It's like magic when you do. It cleans up the sound and suddenly you can put the EQ bass slider into positive territory and you finally get some midrange coming through.
The door 6x9's have enough bass to do the job and you end up with a much flatter EQ curve. I find my EQ us usually the slight smiley as you described. But damn it's finicky as I'm tweaking the bass & treble constantly depending on the track that's playing.

Just unhook your sub, you'll be much happier overall and if RAM ever does 'fix' it you can just plug your sub back in.

 

[SPL1992]

Thank you Buz.

You are right on the money. I disconnected the sub, readjusted the eq and the system is much more cohesive and balanced. the boom from the sub is gone. The. highs are still “spitty” but it is much better.

I would like to try an inexpensive fix for the sub. My plan is to insert an 8 ohm speaker L pad in series with the sub ( behind the rear seat at the sub plug ) and adjust the gain so that it “ augments” the system. If that looks promising I will then add a passive 80hz low pass speaker level filter in series with the sub. Again, behind the rear seat in a project box. To do that I need to buy matching male and female speaker connectors with pig tails. Anyone know the part numbers? I don’t want to cut the factory wiring.

These fixes ( or more realistically bandaids ) may allow the sub to be adjusted to “augment” the system for less than $100.

However, they do not address the awful eq or signal alignment issues. It may be a wild goose chase but something to consider.

This will be an interesting experiment. Has anyone else tried this passive fix?

Sadly the correct fix is for HK and Ram to step up and do a professional retuning of the system. Honestly I am amazed that they have gotten away with this system.

 

[toyboy1980]

Thank you Buz.

You are right on the money. I disconnected the sub, readjusted the eq and the system is much more cohesive and balanced. the boom from the sub is gone. The. highs are still “spitty” but it is much better.

I would like to try an inexpensive fix for the sub. My plan is to insert an 8 ohm speaker L pad in series with the sub ( behind the rear seat at the sub plug ) and adjust the gain so that it “ augments” the system. If that looks promising I will then add a passive 80hz low pass speaker level filter in series with the sub. Again, behind the rear seat in a project box. To do that I need to buy matching male and female speaker connectors with pig tails. Anyone know the part numbers? I don’t want to cut the factory wiring.

These fixes ( or more realistically bandaids ) may allow the sub to be adjusted to “augment” the system for less than $100.

However, they do not address the awful eq or signal alignment issues. It may be a wild goose chase but something to consider.

This will be an interesting experiment. Has anyone else tried this passive fix?

Sadly the correct fix is for HK and Ram to step up and do a professional retuning of the system. Honestly I am amazed that they have gotten away with this system.

I have been considering doing the same thing. Some kind of in-line volume attenuation for the existing sub. Have you found an L pad that has a high enough wattage rating?

 

[SPL1992]

Good morning - Fostex makes a 200W L pad for around $55. Part number R82B.

For this experiment I was planning to use the following from Parts Express:

100 W 8 ohm L pad - #260-262 $13.48
250 watt 80 Hz 12 db per octave LPF- #266-442 $18.48
Jumper - #260-170 $1.93

If the experiment works I would consider buying a more expensive L Pad but for this test this is very inexpensive and seems like a good test rig. I would bet that the phase response through the LPF will shift the subwoofer a bit and MIGHT just help. Who knows. Still shocked at HK. Without the sub the system is credible.

Do you or does anyone know the MFG and part number for the male and female factory speaker connectors behind the seat? I do not want to cut the factory wiring - just plug this little test rig in and see if it makes the sub usable. If this works I plan to put the X over and pad into a project box and mount under the rear seat.

Thanks

 

[toyboy1980]

Good morning - Fostex makes a 200W L pad for around $55. Part number R82B.

For this experiment I was planning to use the following from Parts Express:

100 W 8 ohm L pad - #260-262 $13.48
250 watt 80 Hz 12 db per octave LPF- #266-442 $18.48
Jumper - #260-170 $1.93

If the experiment works I would consider buying a more expensive L Pad but for this test this is very inexpensive and seems like a good test rig. I would bet that the phase response through the LPF will shift the subwoofer a bit and MIGHT just help. Who knows. Still shocked at HK. Without the sub the system is credible.

Do you or does anyone know the MFG and part number for the male and female factory speaker connectors behind the seat? I do not want to cut the factory wiring - just plug this little test rig in and see if it makes the sub usable. If this works I plan to put the X over and pad into a project box and mount under the rear seat.

Thanks

Sounds like a plan. I do not know those part numbers. Seems like there are a few guys on here who always seem to be able to look that stuff up via some unknown resource. Haha. Maybe @Jimmy07 would know?

 

[toyboy1980]

Good morning - Fostex makes a 200W L pad for around $55. Part number R82B.

For this experiment I was planning to use the following from Parts Express:

100 W 8 ohm L pad - #260-262 $13.48
250 watt 80 Hz 12 db per octave LPF- #266-442 $18.48
Jumper - #260-170 $1.93

If the experiment works I would consider buying a more expensive L Pad but for this test this is very inexpensive and seems like a good test rig. I would bet that the phase response through the LPF will shift the subwoofer a bit and MIGHT just help. Who knows. Still shocked at HK. Without the sub the system is credible.

Do you or does anyone know the MFG and part number for the male and female factory speaker connectors behind the seat? I do not want to cut the factory wiring - just plug this little test rig in and see if it makes the sub usable. If this works I plan to put the X over and pad into a project box and mount under the rear seat.

Thanks

Just an FYI on that L pad...

 

[Buz]

Without the sub the system is credible.

It really is. But it could/should be even better. Without the sub it lacks the low end 'depth' a sub is supposed to provide.
If your idea works I look forward to doing it myself. For under $100 it'll be a no-brainer.