FOX 3.0 shocks for RAM 1500 2023

[KichoRebel]

going 4" does not net you more travel, unless you do custom coilovers.
BDS and other brands that make 4"+ kits all require cutting your UCA mounts to fit the diff drop bracket, and none of them advertise any scientific numbers. So the only logical conclusion is: they trade travel for ride height. Higher ride height = less travel, since your coilover is the same length, there's nothing added.
That is precisely why all those trophy trucks do not have tall ride heights.

Even if you manage to get yourself a set of shocks that accommodate for higher ride heights (4"), you'll be limited to the same droop because your CV axle is now your constrain (assuming you got the spindles and the UCA).

here's a fact: you do NOT need LT to "dance" with TRX or raptors in the suspension department. You need a set of properly tuned King or Fox and you'll be able to do it. (Powertrain is another department that's not part of this discussion)

Marketing and advertisement materials indicate 8112 ZC is on King or Fox level, but my real world experience tells me they are overly exaggerated. Carli setup is great, but it is not as great as most people would think. Carli works for 80% of the people whose talents and skillset are the limiting factor, so it feels like Carli works. But for the 20% of the people who have more talents and skills (aka, the OG guys of Dodge Truck Extreme - who ran deserts for the past 10+ years and are/ were involved in suspension development for Carli and Thuren), Thuren is the answer.

So, instead of messing with longer shocks and trying to chase 3.0 performance, pick up the phone, call Don Thuren at Thuren Fabrication and tell him you want a set of Kings with his most aggressive tuning. Then tell him you want the arms and end links and everything else. And when he asks what you want to do, tell him you want to dance with raptors and TRX in the suspension department. He'll get you straight with least amount of headache and thinking on your part.

Dang it!! I was already setting all my focus on the 4" BDS with Fox 2.5 coilovers. Due to this description:
"These kits feature proprietary FOX 2.5 coilover shocks designed for bolt-on performance, increased travel,"
So I assumed, if the drop bracket puts everything in place (geometry wise) then the coilover would need to be longer to provide the extra inches of lift.
Plus it says increased travel. I did think it was true because they are not the ones with a spacer, but instead, with a longer coilover. Although, no web page describes how much more travel you would get, which i did find it odd.

I do want both worlds if possible, I'd like to be at 4 inches but with the best offroad perf to take on whoops. Thuren hasn't pop in my search, so i will definitely check it out.
thanks

4" FOX 2.5 Coilover Lift Kit | Ram 1500 4WD (2019–2024)

Upgrade your 2019–2024 Ram 1500 4WD with BDS 4" FOX 2.5 Performance Elite coilovers for improved suspension travel, off-road performance, and on-road ride feel.

bds-suspension.com

 

[boogielander]

Dang it!! I was already setting all my focus on the 4" BDS with Fox 2.5 coilovers. Due to this description:
"These kits feature proprietary FOX 2.5 coilover shocks designed for bolt-on performance, increased travel,"
So I assumed, if the drop bracket puts everything in place (geometry wise) then the coilover would need to be longer to provide the extra inches of lift.
Plus it says increased travel. I did think it was true because they are not the ones with a spacer, but instead, with a longer coilover. Although, no web page describes how much more travel you would get, which i did find it odd.

I do want both worlds if possible, I'd like to be at 4 inches but with the best offroad perf to take on whoops. Thuren hasn't pop in my search, so i will definitely check it out.
thanks

4" FOX 2.5 Coilover Lift Kit | Ram 1500 4WD (2019–2024)

Upgrade your 2019–2024 Ram 1500 4WD with BDS 4" FOX 2.5 Performance Elite coilovers for improved suspension travel, off-road performance, and on-road ride feel.

bds-suspension.com

im convinced it's just the regular 2.5 coilovers with top spacers or heavier spring rates (one of the local Ram guys has the 6" kit with the Fox 2.5. he did it before he knew anything about offroad driving and high speed run, and he absolute regrets it as the performance is terrible - uncompliant in the front and buck around in the back, and overly harsh through the whoops. unfortunately for him there's nothing he can do to correct the mistake because the LCA mounts are chopped, even he talked to all the major vendors out there. and iirc his springs are heaver rated springs or something)

those 4"+ kits are not gonna add more travel. those are just marketing terms.
Assuming they use the same coilovers and I got like 8" droop with the fox factory setting, at 4" you will only get like 6" of droop at most because the stroke distance is limited.
we did a 4" kit on a Colorado once... major pain in the rear and when it came off the lift, the suspension barely compresses. there was next to 0 "travel" and ride was terrible. Same thing: Fox 2.5 kit with brackets and no top hat. felt every bump and dip on the road. yeah it LOOKS nice with how tall it sits, but it drives like absolute trash.

having established that 4" kits do NOT add more travel but actually REDUCE travel, going 4" is a very illogical choice.

then theres also the skid plates issue. No legit skid plate manufacturer makes anything for 4" plus. That BDS skid plate is a joke lol it doesn't cover everything that needs to be covered. If you want real off road ready skid plates, RCI is the only good choice on the RAM 1500 platform.

also, you do know that going 4" does NOT increase your ground clearance right? because of the drop bracket, your ground clearance is back to where it is supposed to be. Your ground clearance is dictated by your tire size, not lift size.

bottom line:
Ditch the whole 4" idea. It is not practical and offers 0 performance benefit. why are you so fixated on 4"?
Go with no more than 3" and just get Thuren stage 6. Stage 6 tune is more than what average people's skills and experience can handle. Even I can't fully handle stage 6 - it goes beyond my talent and skills are comfortable with.

 

[boogielander]

I've never tried thuren or carli, but I had accutune custom valve a set of fox 2.5's on an old 2011 silverado and that was an incredible experience. With the sway bar disconnected on that truck, the ride was excellent and I could not find any negatives. If carli or thuren are as good as their reputation, then they are an excellent option.

On my '24 ram I started with off the shelf King 2.5(accutune wouldn't valve them for our trucks because they have never done one). They fell short in a couple departments, but they definitely increased wheel travel. I'm currently running the 8112's up front with kings on the rear and it is very good, but still not perfect like my 2011 silvy. The 8112's do have less travel than the kings, but they definitely perform better in almost every way. From the driver's seat, they make it feel as though there is 10-11"of travel instead of 8-9", in my opinion.

Question for Boogie: have you had any issues with your front cv axles on your current setup? That was something I was concerned with on the King's. Also, do you ever run with a disconnected sway bar? I assume not since you run around with a load typically, but I find the ride far superior with both disconnected in an unladen truck.

In conclusion, if you want an easy quick buy option, 8112's are excellent, but I have no doubt that custom valving could ultimately be the best option. In addition, if ground clearance is high on the priority list, 8112's are not going to keep up with Fox and King. Just my 2 cents...

accutune is the easiest "tuner" out there but i will never ever run their stuff. Have a friend in my group got his accutune kings and they REFUSE to do their most aggressive tune for him, saying the mid tier tune is more than enough. Friend pushed for it 3 times and they said "no mid tier is fine and if you want more we can change it for you"
Guess what happened... that mid tier tune that they insisted on selling to my friend is complete useless. well at least for my group... we do half of mojave in one day, including stopping for lunch and sightseeing. Buck around too much and uncompliant in the front.
When we opened it to swap the reservoir to run Fox DSC resi, we discovered the shim stacks are the same as the off-the-shelf king's shims. There was no tuning done, only spring rate change.
then some of my customers got theirs on their broncos... same thing. can't keep up with my fox 2.5. Swapped rig to confirm it's not driver issue and... he likes how mine drives more and definitely went faster lol.

no issue with the CV at the moment at 54k miles but with the miles being piled on i may swap them out early. CV at this point is just consumables for me lol it's bound to happen, just don't know when. I also don't disconnect sway bar. Makes no sense for me to disconnect it at air down and then reconnect it when airing up especially when I haven't run into issues, and i also go up and down the mountain with this truck as well.

 

[justinv13]

accutune is the easiest "tuner" out there but i will never ever run their stuff. Have a friend in my group got his accutune kings and they REFUSE to do their most aggressive tune for him, saying the mid tier tune is more than enough. Friend pushed for it 3 times and they said "no mid tier is fine and if you want more we can change it for you"
Guess what happened... that mid tier tune that they insisted on selling to my friend is complete useless. well at least for my group... we do half of mojave in one day, including stopping for lunch and sightseeing. Buck around too much and uncompliant in the front.
When we opened it to swap the reservoir to run Fox DSC resi, we discovered the shim stacks are the same as the off-the-shelf king's shims. There was no tuning done, only spring rate change.
then some of my customers got theirs on their broncos... same thing. can't keep up with my fox 2.5. Swapped rig to confirm it's not driver issue and... he likes how mine drives more and definitely went faster lol.

no issue with the CV at the moment at 54k miles but with the miles being piled on i may swap them out early. CV at this point is just consumables for me lol it's bound to happen, just don't know when. I also don't disconnect sway bar. Makes no sense for me to disconnect it at air down and then reconnect it when airing up especially when I haven't run into issues, and i also go up and down the mountain with this truck as well.

I'm not surprised by the experience your friend had with Accutune. On my silverado I had to send them back and have them revalve immediately and then they were perfect. I'm pretty sure they sent them with the off the shelf valving initially, but I did not pull them apart.

I agree with you on the 4" lift being a poor option for high speed. If someone was to be more trail oriented and less desert/high speed, then I could see the lift being an ideal solution. You are only going to gain clearance from larger tires, but your breakover angle is improved, which can be extremely helpful when cresting dunes, hills, rocks etc. The fuel tank skid plate on my rebel hangs down pretty low and has got me in trouble once or twice.... I've considered removing/modifying it in order to avoid getting hung up again. A lift would cure that problem, but create several others, which is not going to work for my uses.

 

[boogielander]

I'm not surprised by the experience your friend had with Accutune. On my silverado I had to send them back and have them revalve immediately and then they were perfect. I'm pretty sure they sent them with the off the shelf valving initially, but I did not pull them apart.

I agree with you on the 4" lift being a poor option for high speed. If someone was to be more trail oriented and less desert/high speed, then I could see the lift being an ideal solution. You are only going to gain clearance from larger tires, but your breakover angle is improved, which can be extremely helpful when cresting dunes, hills, rocks etc. The fuel tank skid plate on my rebel hangs down pretty low and has got me in trouble once or twice.... I've considered removing/modifying it in order to avoid getting hung up again. A lift would cure that problem, but create several others, which is not going to work for my uses.

yea lol we do our own shock services. it's not that difficult and there are plenty of information that can be obtained, it's just the right tools are expensive but they pay of themselves if you do enough of them.
Another reason I speak highly of Thuren is Don (the bossman) willing to share info and can get into a lot of technical things. Granted, he's not gonna share his "secret sauce" tuning, but if you go on enough runs with him and get on his good side, he will help you get as perfect as it gets.
having said that and having been going on runs with people who actually do high speed (some are race support for Baja and other desert races) and test ride/ test drive tuned suspensions from various tuners, here's how I tier things for Ram application:

• Generic "tuning": services like Accutune - they do all kinds of platforms but not expert at specific platform or achieving the full potential. Yes, they post technical articles, but still, their marketing is better than the actual services provided.
• Carli: Carli focuses on HD Ram and HD Ford. Their fabrication parts are good, and their shock tuning works for 80% of the people - from amateurs to the average experienced/ skilled people. But there will be rooms for improvement.
• Thuren: Focuses on Ram only. Traditionally HD Rams, but because Don got himself a RHO he's investing more in the 1500 platform now. Fabrication parts are well engineered, and the shock tuning is the best out there.

As for breakover angle... unfortunately there's no correct way to fix this problem on our platform due to how the chassis and body are designed. My breakover angle is worse than the 4Runner, and the frame actually sits closer to the ground than the 4Runner despite I'm on 35s and the 4Runner was on 33s with 2" lift. If I want to chase brakeover and ground clearance, going HD is the only correct way to fit it.

And that is why I decided to stop spending money on getting LT for this truck and instead save that money for a Power Wagon - that way, I do get the best of both worlds: clearance and angles for crawling, as well as suspension package with 13" travel in the front and 15" of travel in the rear for high speed and taking jumps.

 

[KichoRebel]

im convinced it's just the regular 2.5 coilovers with top spacers or heavier spring rates (one of the local Ram guys has the 6" kit with the Fox 2.5. he did it before he knew anything about offroad driving and high speed run, and he absolute regrets it as the performance is terrible - uncompliant in the front and buck around in the back, and overly harsh through the whoops. unfortunately for him there's nothing he can do to correct the mistake because the LCA mounts are chopped, even he talked to all the major vendors out there. and iirc his springs are heaver rated springs or something)

those 4"+ kits are not gonna add more travel. those are just marketing terms.
Assuming they use the same coilovers and I got like 8" droop with the fox factory setting, at 4" you will only get like 6" of droop at most because the stroke distance is limited.
we did a 4" kit on a Colorado once... major pain in the rear and when it came off the lift, the suspension barely compresses. there was next to 0 "travel" and ride was terrible. Same thing: Fox 2.5 kit with brackets and no top hat. felt every bump and dip on the road. yeah it LOOKS nice with how tall it sits, but it drives like absolute trash.

having established that 4" kits do NOT add more travel but actually REDUCE travel, going 4" is a very illogical choice.

then theres also the skid plates issue. No legit skid plate manufacturer makes anything for 4" plus. That BDS skid plate is a joke lol it doesn't cover everything that needs to be covered. If you want real off road ready skid plates, RCI is the only good choice on the RAM 1500 platform.

also, you do know that going 4" does NOT increase your ground clearance right? because of the drop bracket, your ground clearance is back to where it is supposed to be. Your ground clearance is dictated by your tire size, not lift size.

bottom line:
Ditch the whole 4" idea. It is not practical and offers 0 performance benefit. why are you so fixated on 4"?
Go with no more than 3" and just get Thuren stage 6. Stage 6 tune is more than what average people's skills and experience can handle. Even I can't fully handle stage 6 - it goes beyond my talent and skills are comfortable with.

Thanks, yes, I have watched some videos from shock surplus as well explaining how you don't get any additional travel. Thanks for explaining, I almost fell for it.
The reason why I'm so fixated is because I'm currently at that height (3 in spacer plus the stock rebel), I did not want to lose it, as I like how it looks currently. Also, for clearance.
I know the spacer is killing my geometry even with my aftermarket UCA. My front end links are shot and squeeking already. So I will need to change those, and basically remove the spacers asap.
I know.. I was even more ignorant back then and added the spacers. I know I made a mistake.

I took a look at Thuren Stage 5/6, definitely seems like one of the best custom options.
You also mentioned Carli Performance setup with their UCAs, have you heard which option would be better? Carli states 9 inch travel. With some testimonies saying they are jumping on whoops.
I currently have 35s, I think they can fit with some trimming on the liner correct? On the 2.5 inch lift.

Man, I'm just a little sad, honestly, it's taken some of my enthusiasm, my dream. haha
Having second thoughts, like you mentioned, should i sell and go for a TRX.
It just goes against my dream of building something, instead of buying and having it made already. The reason I don't want to invest in a CanAm either.

 

[H2OMAN]

Thanks, yes, I have watched some videos from shock surplus as well explaining how you don't get any additional travel. Thanks for explaining, I almost fell for it.
The reason why I'm so fixated is because I'm currently at that height (3 in spacer plus the stock rebel), I did not want to lose it, as I like how it looks currently. Also, for clearance.
I know the spacer is killing my geometry even with my aftermarket UCA. My front end links are shot and squeeking already. So I will need to change those, and basically remove the spacers asap.
I know.. I was even more ignorant back then and added the spacers. I know I made a mistake.

I took a look at Thuren Stage 5/6, definitely seems like one of the best custom options.
You also mentioned Carli Performance setup with their UCAs, have you heard which option would be better? Carli states 9 inch travel. With some testimonies saying they are jumping on whoops.
I currently have 35s, I think they can fit with some trimming on the liner correct? On the 2.5 inch lift.

Man, I'm just a little sad, honestly, it's taken some of my enthusiasm, my dream. haha
Having second thoughts, like you mentioned, should i sell and go for a TRX.
It just goes against my dream of building something, instead of buying and having it made already. The reason I don't want to invest in a CanAm either.

If you watch any of Matt's Offroad Recovery you learn pretty quickly that CanAms and Razors are made out of paper.

 

[KichoRebel]

yea lol we do our own shock services. it's not that difficult and there are plenty of information that can be obtained, it's just the right tools are expensive but they pay of themselves if you do enough of them.
Another reason I speak highly of Thuren is Don (the bossman) willing to share info and can get into a lot of technical things. Granted, he's not gonna share his "secret sauce" tuning, but if you go on enough runs with him and get on his good side, he will help you get as perfect as it gets.
having said that and having been going on runs with people who actually do high speed (some are race support for Baja and other desert races) and test ride/ test drive tuned suspensions from various tuners, here's how I tier things for Ram application:

• Generic "tuning": services like Accutune - they do all kinds of platforms but not expert at specific platform or achieving the full potential. Yes, they post technical articles, but still, their marketing is better than the actual services provided.
• Carli: Carli focuses on HD Ram and HD Ford. Their fabrication parts are good, and their shock tuning works for 80% of the people - from amateurs to the average experienced/ skilled people. But there will be rooms for improvement.
• Thuren: Focuses on Ram only. Traditionally HD Rams, but because Don got himself a RHO he's investing more in the 1500 platform now. Fabrication parts are well engineered, and the shock tuning is the best out there.

As for breakover angle... unfortunately there's no correct way to fix this problem on our platform due to how the chassis and body are designed. My breakover angle is worse than the 4Runner, and the frame actually sits closer to the ground than the 4Runner despite I'm on 35s and the 4Runner was on 33s with 2" lift. If I want to chase brakeover and ground clearance, going HD is the only correct way to fit it.

And that is why I decided to stop spending money on getting LT for this truck and instead save that money for a Power Wagon - that way, I do get the best of both worlds: clearance and angles for crawling, as well as suspension package with 13" travel in the front and 15" of travel in the rear for high speed and taking jumps.

Hopefully my last stupid question for you about this topic.
How crazy it is to add a body lift?
I know, i will not get any clearance, but it could give me the same stance as I'm currently at, and the performance of Thuren or Carli would still perform without geometry issues?

 

[justinv13]

yea lol we do our own shock services. it's not that difficult and there are plenty of information that can be obtained, it's just the right tools are expensive but they pay of themselves if you do enough of them.
Another reason I speak highly of Thuren is Don (the bossman) willing to share info and can get into a lot of technical things. Granted, he's not gonna share his "secret sauce" tuning, but if you go on enough runs with him and get on his good side, he will help you get as perfect as it gets.
having said that and having been going on runs with people who actually do high speed (some are race support for Baja and other desert races) and test ride/ test drive tuned suspensions from various tuners, here's how I tier things for Ram application:

• Generic "tuning": services like Accutune - they do all kinds of platforms but not expert at specific platform or achieving the full potential. Yes, they post technical articles, but still, their marketing is better than the actual services provided.
• Carli: Carli focuses on HD Ram and HD Ford. Their fabrication parts are good, and their shock tuning works for 80% of the people - from amateurs to the average experienced/ skilled people. But there will be rooms for improvement.
• Thuren: Focuses on Ram only. Traditionally HD Rams, but because Don got himself a RHO he's investing more in the 1500 platform now. Fabrication parts are well engineered, and the shock tuning is the best out there.

As for breakover angle... unfortunately there's no correct way to fix this problem on our platform due to how the chassis and body are designed. My breakover angle is worse than the 4Runner, and the frame actually sits closer to the ground than the 4Runner despite I'm on 35s and the 4Runner was on 33s with 2" lift. If I want to chase brakeover and ground clearance, going HD is the only correct way to fit it.

And that is why I decided to stop spending money on getting LT for this truck and instead save that money for a Power Wagon - that way, I do get the best of both worlds: clearance and angles for crawling, as well as suspension package with 13" travel in the front and 15" of travel in the rear for high speed and taking jumps.

An HD makes perfect sense for clearance and travel, along with the added bonus of more durable axles that can be built up to withstand virtually anything. A power wagon would be an excellent platform to build upon for almost any terrain and it would have much more versatility for the cost versus a TRX or RHO.

I've got a '96 ram 2500 that has 2" lift coils in front and a few other carli parts, but nothing for high speed activity. The capability of that truck on trails is absolutely ridiculous in comparison to my Rebel. I have never been in a position where I felt like I needed to be very cautious while driving over obstacles, but the 1500 will high center on small obstacles if you pick the wrong angles of approach. Now, if I were to slap some 2.5" RR kings front and rear and add some deaver leaf springs and 37" tires..... holy crap.... I'd feel invincible!

Power Wagon with some properly tuned shocks to match good springs would be absolutely amazing! Fantastic idea. Bravo

 

[boogielander]

Thanks, yes, I have watched some videos from shock surplus as well explaining how you don't get any additional travel. Thanks for explaining, I almost fell for it.
The reason why I'm so fixated is because I'm currently at that height (3 in spacer plus the stock rebel), I did not want to lose it, as I like how it looks currently. Also, for clearance.
I know the spacer is killing my geometry even with my aftermarket UCA. My front end links are shot and squeeking already. So I will need to change those, and basically remove the spacers asap.
I know.. I was even more ignorant back then and added the spacers. I know I made a mistake.

I took a look at Thuren Stage 5/6, definitely seems like one of the best custom options.
You also mentioned Carli Performance setup with their UCAs, have you heard which option would be better? Carli states 9 inch travel. With some testimonies saying they are jumping on whoops.
I currently have 35s, I think they can fit with some trimming on the liner correct? On the 2.5 inch lift.

Man, I'm just a little sad, honestly, it's taken some of my enthusiasm, my dream. haha
Having second thoughts, like you mentioned, should i sell and go for a TRX.
It just goes against my dream of building something, instead of buying and having it made already. The reason I don't want to invest in a CanAm either.

shock surplus is a good place for basic info but they know nothing about going fast (they claimed the 8112 is as good as kings and fox and that video got shared to the go fast group - the same people who are/ were involved in Bajas and development of shock valving for go fast - and everyone all laughed about it lol. And the set of pre-leaked Icons that my customer brought came from them too)

Thurens stage 5/ 6 will be better than Carli Performance any day of the week. Thuren already valve it according to your truck's weight, your driving style, and the terrains you find yourself on as standard, the different stages are just different classifications of aggressiveness of the tuning package. Think of it as Thuren is tailored for you, while Carli offers the same tune for everybody regardless of your weight, your style, and your terrain. Again referencing the go fast group im in, the fastest people are all on Thurens, and taking test rides and test drives prove that Thurens offer more than Carli. Having said that, Thuren would be my choice over Carli, since it looks like you belong to the 20% of the people who actually push their trucks (people whom I call "the Elites"). Heck, if Kings were not backordered with no ETA back in 2022 I'd be on Thurens instead of Fox 2.5 lol (Fox 2.5 was the only ones that promised under 6 months lead time back then. I even ordered the shocks before Ram built my truck to account for lead time and still there was no ETA on Kings).

I saw you saw my Fox 2.5 review post (and maybe the 35x12.5R18 post). They will be the same in terms of trimming and fitment, just do aggressive trimming and grind your pinch weld if you're going to wheel hard. Don't worry about anything, because the plastic liner is replaceable - when you're ready to move on to a different truck, just put some new liners and no one will know.

Regarding TRX: yes they are capable as they come in factory form, but trust, they are still slower in the suspension department than those Cummin HDs with full Thuren lol if you get yourself a TRX, eventually you'll want to go Thuren. They had a run with my friend's TRX before I got my truck and the TRX couldn't keep up with the Thuren 2500s.

 

[boogielander]

An HD makes perfect sense for clearance and travel, along with the added bonus of more durable axles that can be built up to withstand virtually anything. A power wagon would be an excellent platform to build upon for almost any terrain and it would have much more versatility for the cost versus a TRX or RHO.

I've got a '96 ram 2500 that has 2" lift coils in front and a few other carli parts, but nothing for high speed activity. The capability of that truck on trails is absolutely ridiculous in comparison to my Rebel. I have never been in a position where I felt like I needed to be very cautious while driving over obstacles, but the 1500 will high center on small obstacles if you pick the wrong angles of approach. Now, if I were to slap some 2.5" RR kings front and rear and add some deaver leaf springs and 37" tires..... holy crap.... I'd feel invincible!

Power Wagon with some properly tuned shocks to match good springs would be absolutely amazing! Fantastic idea. Bravo

yeap I am convinced that a PW would be the best all around truck, aside from long road trips to remote places due to fuel consumption and when the trail gets choppy.
Choppy is where solid axle struggles and IFS shines. But the travel/ droop of solid axle when it comes to crawling... that's just perfect.

 

[KichoRebel]

shock surplus is a good place for basic info but they know nothing about going fast (they claimed the 8112 is as good as kings and fox and that video got shared to the go fast group - the same people who are/ were involved in Bajas and development of shock valving for go fast - and everyone all laughed about it lol. And the set of pre-leaked Icons that my customer brought came from them too)

Thurens stage 5/ 6 will be better than Carli Performance any day of the week. Thuren already valve it according to your truck's weight, your driving style, and the terrains you find yourself on as standard, the different stages are just different classifications of aggressiveness of the tuning package. Think of it as Thuren is tailored for you, while Carli offers the same tune for everybody regardless of your weight, your style, and your terrain. Again referencing the go fast group im in, the fastest people are all on Thurens, and taking test rides and test drives prove that Thurens offer more than Carli. Having said that, Thuren would be my choice over Carli, since it looks like you belong to the 20% of the people who actually push their trucks (people whom I call "the Elites"). Heck, if Kings were not backordered with no ETA back in 2022 I'd be on Thurens instead of Fox 2.5 lol (Fox 2.5 was the only ones that promised under 6 months lead time back then. I even ordered the shocks before Ram built my truck to account for lead time and still there was no ETA on Kings).

I saw you saw my Fox 2.5 review post (and maybe the 35x12.5R18 post). They will be the same in terms of trimming and fitment, just do aggressive trimming and grind your pinch weld if you're going to wheel hard. Don't worry about anything, because the plastic liner is replaceable - when you're ready to move on to a different truck, just put some new liners and no one will know.

Regarding TRX: yes they are capable as they come in factory form, but trust, they are still slower in the suspension department than those Cummin HDs with full Thuren lol if you get yourself a TRX, eventually you'll want to go Thuren. They had a run with my friend's TRX before I got my truck and the TRX couldn't keep up with the Thuren 2500s.

Thank you! Now, I really want a Power Wagon, lol!.
I contacted them to see if the stage 6 with adjusters can be adjusted down to like a level 3 when I'm in the city not offraoding super hard. Or on slower trails. And then when hitting the whoops take it back to their settings.

 

[boogielander]

Thank you! Now, I really want a Power Wagon, lol!.
I contacted them to see if the stage 6 with adjusters can be adjusted down to like a level 3 when I'm in the city not offraoding super hard. Or on slower trails. And then when hitting the whoops take it back to their settings.

probably not gonna happen because the tunings are internal (aka, the shims) which require full disassembly of the shocks to change.
you can, however, ask for the adjuster version with mid speed knob. Not gonna be night and day difference like on Fox 2.5, but will help.

don't ask him about tuning Fox 2.5 lol he has his reasons to not do Fox 2.5 lol

 

[KichoRebel]

probably not gonna happen because the tunings are internal (aka, the shims) which require full disassembly of the shocks to change.
you can, however, ask for the adjuster version with mid speed knob. Not gonna be night and day difference like on Fox 2.5, but will help.

don't ask him about tuning Fox 2.5 lol he has his reasons to not do Fox 2.5 lol

I'm starting to think this journey is not worth it.
Seriously considering if I should sell and go for a brand and model that there are actually more parts and demand. Options, Long Travel kits etc.
I really like the Hemi with Long Tube Headers and even wanted to add a Procharger to it, but I'm a little disappointed at the offroad suspension options.
It's on me, when I started this, I didn't do a good research, but just the amount of options for Toyotas, Jeeps, Chevys even fords and Nissans are a ton. But not for Rams 1500s.

To your point, maybe Power Wagon is an option.
Not quitting yet on my project haha, but considering it.

 

[boogielander]

I'm starting to think this journey is not worth it.
Seriously considering if I should sell and go for a brand and model that there are actually more parts and demand. Options, Long Travel kits etc.
I really like the Hemi with Long Tube Headers and even wanted to add a Procharger to it, but I'm a little disappointed at the offroad suspension options.
It's on me, when I started this, I didn't do a good research, but just the amount of options for Toyotas, Jeeps, Chevys even fords and Nissans are a ton. But not for Rams 1500s.

To your point, maybe Power Wagon is an option.
Not quitting yet on my project haha, but considering it.

yeah when i started in 2022 I tried to make a difference, hence with all the technical writeups so I can steer the community as a whole toward the right direction and develop more demand in "doing it correctly" over "doing it cheaply just for looks." I knew the demand for these quality stuff was low and I thought I could change that. Boy was I completely wrong.

The 1500 crowd is not really the right crowd for "doing things right with quality parts" compared to the crowds of Toyotas (Yotas got a lot of overland tax and overland people who blindly believe in their reliability and are willing to spend money), Jeeps (Jeep people just like to tinker with their rides, go out and have fun, break things, and drive the aftermarket space forward), Chevys and Nissans (those are the ones I don't understand... maybe because they're cheaper to buy?) and Fords (Fords are more actively involved in desert racing and motorsports, as much as I hate Ford I'll give them that). The Ram 1500 crowd are consist of 90% of people who are just cheap, poor, or uneducated, buying chinese lights and switches, running spacer lifts or subpar lifts from RC, and do things just for looks (4"+ lift kits).

There's no shame in calling it quits when you haven't drop serious money on your truck yet. I would if I was you.
I built my truck to go fast and camp comfortably, and most importantly to do the Alaska - Arctic Ocean trip. I've sank enough money to buy another 1500 Rebel on my truck and despite me wanting to go PW, realistically I'm in too deep already to move on. At this point I'll never crawl as good as a PW or hit triple digit speed out in the desert, and I guess that's fine. To this day I am still kicking myself in the *** for not delaying my Alaska trip for another year and buy CJC's shop PW back in 2024 instead lol

Maybe I'm just burnt out and tired, maybe it's something else. I don't know... being a professional does take its toll on me... I am no longer excited or looking forward to start a new build. Like at this point I've got a formula down on how to do it correctly from suspension choice to the whole electrical system and I apply it to every customer vehicle I build, rinse and repeat, and it's not exciting anymore lol. Nowadays when someone tells me they want to "try something new" I just roll my eyes and tell them it's not gonna work because of this and that, and they'd be better off spending the money and resources on something else. Probably pissed off a few people that way, but at the end they come back and tell me "bro, you're right"
(sorry for the rant on the last part)

 

[KichoRebel]

yeah when i started in 2022 I tried to make a difference, hence with all the technical writeups so I can steer the community as a whole toward the right direction and develop more demand in "doing it correctly" over "doing it cheaply just for looks." I knew the demand for these quality stuff was low and I thought I could change that. Boy was I completely wrong.

The 1500 crowd is not really the right crowd for "doing things right with quality parts" compared to the crowds of Toyotas (Yotas got a lot of overland tax and overland people who blindly believe in their reliability and are willing to spend money), Jeeps (Jeep people just like to tinker with their rides, go out and have fun, break things, and drive the aftermarket space forward), Chevys and Nissans (those are the ones I don't understand... maybe because they're cheaper to buy?) and Fords (Fords are more actively involved in desert racing and motorsports, as much as I hate Ford I'll give them that). The Ram 1500 crowd are consist of 90% of people who are just cheap, poor, or uneducated, buying chinese lights and switches, running spacer lifts or subpar lifts from RC, and do things just for looks (4"+ lift kits).

There's no shame in calling it quits when you haven't drop serious money on your truck yet. I would if I was you.
I built my truck to go fast and camp comfortably, and most importantly to do the Alaska - Arctic Ocean trip. I've sank enough money to buy another 1500 Rebel on my truck and despite me wanting to go PW, realistically I'm in too deep already to move on. At this point I'll never crawl as good as a PW or hit triple digit speed out in the desert, and I guess that's fine. To this day I am still kicking myself in the *** for not delaying my Alaska trip for another year and buy CJC's shop PW back in 2024 instead lol

Maybe I'm just burnt out and tired, maybe it's something else. I don't know... being a professional does take its toll on me... I am no longer excited or looking forward to start a new build. Like at this point I've got a formula down on how to do it correctly from suspension choice to the whole electrical system and I apply it to every customer vehicle I build, rinse and repeat, and it's not exciting anymore lol. Nowadays when someone tells me they want to "try something new" I just roll my eyes and tell them it's not gonna work because of this and that, and they'd be better off spending the money and resources on something else. Probably pissed off a few people that way, but at the end they come back and tell me "bro, you're right"
(sorry for the rant on the last part)

Lol, you actually described me at the beginning of my project, with the lift spacers and 4 in lift kit.
But as you shared your knowledge and the deeper I've investigated the more I wanted to do it the right way.
Plus, my offroad team. Brother with a Silverado (tons of options for Long Travel, which he will do), other members with Jeep, Broncos, Tacomas, Hilux Gladiators.
And all that was ok until.... my brother in law bought himself a New Raptor R. sigh...
I guess that is where I was like.. hmmm.. I gotta be at the same level.. let's get serious with our Offroad suspension.. but wow.. just disappointed.
I will debate in my head if I still want to go the route of Thurens and some aftermarket reinforcement suspension parts with the procharger and have some fun, although knowing I won't be able to compete high speed with the Raptor R. It would be a lot of money and will not give me the offroad performance I could achieve with a different brand/model.
Or... keep waiting for someone like Dirt King. Which I would wait for, If there would only be confirmation they would be working on it, which the have told me twice "not in the near future" haha.

I know I'm not too deep like you but I have already invested in Long Tube Headers from Stainless Works, PCM unlocked, Tune, CAI, Cat Back Exhaust. All of this kind of lowers the value of the truck if I don't sell it privately. So also don't know if it is worth selling now, lol!

Well, I will keep studying and being patient to take the best decision.
Don't get discouraged, you are helping a ton - ignorants like me.

 

[boogielander]

Lol, you actually described me at the beginning of my project, with the lift spacers and 4 in lift kit.
But as you shared your knowledge and the deeper I've investigated the more I wanted to do it the right way.
Plus, my offroad team. Brother with a Silverado (tons of options for Long Travel, which he will do), other members with Jeep, Broncos, Tacomas, Hilux Gladiators.
And all that was ok until.... my brother in law bought himself a New Raptor R. sigh...
I guess that is where I was like.. hmmm.. I gotta be at the same level.. let's get serious with our Offroad suspension.. but wow.. just disappointed.
I will debate in my head if I still want to go the route of Thurens and some aftermarket reinforcement suspension parts with the procharger and have some fun, although knowing I won't be able to compete high speed with the Raptor R. It would be a lot of money and will not give me the offroad performance I could achieve with a different brand/model.
Or... keep waiting for someone like Dirt King. Which I would wait for, If there would only be confirmation they would be working on it, which the have told me twice "not in the near future" haha.

I know I'm not too deep like you but I have already invested in Long Tube Headers from Stainless Works, PCM unlocked, Tune, CAI, Cat Back Exhaust. All of this kind of lowers the value of the truck if I don't sell it privately. So also don't know if it is worth selling now, lol!

Well, I will keep studying and being patient to take the best decision.
Don't get discouraged, you are helping a ton - ignorants like me.

sometimes i do feel like it's the driver and not the truck that makes a big difference, as in the build list just enhances the performance, but ultimately it's down to the driver to see how hard he/ she pushes. I've kept up with guys with 3.0 shocks and even LT with my truck with no engine mod (I'm not big on engine mods. squeezing more power means other things need to be strengthened for me) and a crapton of weight on it, but then that's also because I got the experience and can read the terrain. Swap driver and the guys were amazed by how much faster their trucks can go. Like I've mentioned above, tuning is more important than shock size. Bigger shock size just means you have more fluid to dissipate heat from shock cycles, doesn't mean you'll get more travel or better compression and rebound performance unless you have bypasses. Think of it this way: tuning dictates how comfortably and how fast you can go, and shock size dictates how far you can full send it. Even in the deserts of Mojave, Barstow, Laughlin, Henderson, Johnson Valley (King of Hammers), I've yet to push my 2.5 to the point that the fluids boil. Even when we go hard in summer time, we'd run a few hours and take a break to snack, hydrate, let liquid go, etc.

It may sound like I am talking against my point with how well the 2.5 series perform, but that's not the case. Yes, I'd solve my high speed limitation with proper valving (I'm still on stock Fox valving just different springs, and I'm sure I'm due for rebuild but I don't have time for the truck to be down for a few weeks for rebuild and tuning), but pairing the driver and the existing setup, it's actually as good as it gets. But I still stand firmly on a PW or HD platform because I know I want more, not necessarily that I NEED more, but WANT more. I want to be able to fit 37s without major work, to be able to crawl better(solid axle will always out crawl IFS), to be able to have more ground clearance (due to frame design on the DT.. thing just hangs low AF). Being able to run Thuren Predator Kit and use the travel is just an added bonus, if you understand what I mean.

Existing bolt on kits are good starting point, but if you have experiences and are a good driver, I'd highly recommend cut the loss on headers and other things before dumping another $10k parts and labor on existing bolt ons only to replace them later with custom stuff. You can always part them out to get some of your $$ back.

I mean, if you REALLY want 3.0 and LT and don't mind spending time putting together (aka, welding and fabricating) a custom kit for arms, shock towers, etc send me a PM. I can refer you to the guy who has access to it. Definitely been done before, though a very limited number, and after seeing the sh*t he went through I'm not down to go down that path myself.

oh, regarding the raptor R... you'd be surprised how fast those built 3rd gen Cummins with FULL Thuren goodies (not the 3.0 shocks on the site but the 3.5 and even 4.0s) can be and dust those Raptor Rs in the desert.

and... don't hold your breathe on Dirt King. It's been 7 years since DT came out and year after year they've been telling me "it's in the works" (i see they went from "it's in the works" to "not in the near future" lol) That's corporate-speak for "no it's not gonna happen" lol i mean come on, which company takes 7+ years to develop LT kits... especially for a big company like DK.