Experts weigh In... Laramie, Non-ORP set up.

[DeDax]

So, for some back story, when I first bought my truck I threw in a RC 2" spacer. It has done fine, but I am looking to upgrade, mainly for additional performance for beach trips and the occasional camping/off-road adventure with the family. I started looking at the OEM Mopar/Fox set up & adding the ORP springs to get a little extra height. My dealer gave me a price and I started shopping. The more I shopped the more I started looking at higher end shocks and coilovers only to realize that I probably didn't need that much. The additional performance probably wouldn't be realized with my specific usage.

That said, I am still considering the Mopar/Fox set up with ORP Springs all around, I am also considering the following. Bilstein 5100/5160, ORP Springs, Mopar UCA's. I am planning on running 20x9 +1 wheels.

So for those in the know, any input on the comparison? Additional things I should consider or be aware of?

 

[Rustin5]

So, for some back story, when I first bought my truck I threw in a RC 2" spacer. It has done fine, but I am looking to upgrade, mainly for additional performance for beach trips and the occasional camping/off-road adventure with the family. I started looking at the OEM Mopar/Fox set up & adding the ORP springs to get a little extra height. My dealer gave me a price and I started shopping. The more I shopped the more I started looking at higher end shocks and coilovers only to realize that I probably didn't need that much. The additional performance probably wouldn't be realized with my specific usage.

That said, I am still considering the Mopar/Fox set up with ORP Springs all around, I am also considering the following. Bilstein 5100/5160, ORP Springs, Mopar UCA's. I am planning on running 20x9 +1 wheels.

So for those in the know, any input on the comparison? Additional things I should consider or be aware of?

you will be looking at a net lift of 3”+ in the front. I would highly recommend considering an after market upper control arm to correct the ball joint angle. Over 2.5” of lift it is recommended to change out UCA’s regardless of street vs off-road usage. True lift kits don’t need them because they typically will contain a new knuckle that corrects that extends further or brackets for UCA

 

[DeDax]

So, something other than the Mopar UCA's?

 

[Rustin5]

So, something other than the Mopar UCA's?

Yes the angle of the Mopar uca is not increased enough for that amount of lift

 

[Eltaco]

I’m running stock UCAs with about 2.5” of lift over normal non-ORP. Many of us are, if you read thru the 5100 thread.

My truck is an ORP, and I added my 5100s on the #4 setting for an additional ~1.5”.

Actually, the ball joint angle is pretty moderate. My picture might make it look worse, but the boot fins are barely touching. The angle on my old Tacoma with 3” lift and aftermarket UCAs was far more extreme. I can’t speak to longevity yet with only 4K miles, but I’m very comfortable with what I see with factory UCAs and 2.5” lift.

 

[DeDax]

Yea that doesn't look horrible at all. And with my planned addition of the Mopar UCA's should help, albeit not as much as some more expensive but rigorous aftermarket units. I've heard you can procure the Mopar UCA's for around $50-60 per side. At that price, and with my intended usage, I think it should be ok. Now I just have to find accurate PN# for both the ORP Springs and the Mopar UCA's, so I can start to put all this together.

 

[Bubba33]

I went with the RC leveling struts and a rear spacer to keep a little take in it. I was surprised at how nice it rides. I did spacer on my 16 Laramie and it rode rough.

 

[Rustin5]

I went with the RC leveling struts and a rear spacer to keep a little take in it. I was surprised at how nice it rides. I did spacer on my 16 Laramie and it rode rough.

You need to look at angle at full droop not on flat ground. The joint has to be able to withstand the entire length of travel

 

[Eltaco]

You need to look at angle at full droop not on flat ground. The joint has to be able to withstand the entire length of travel

Correct me if I’m wrong... I’ve made this same comment before but I’m questioning if that’s truly an accurate statement. The bottom droop travel is limited by the shock length, right? If the replacement shock is a direct length replacement, they should have the same droop angle as stock. The difference is the ride height has changed so effective travel from nominal ride height to max droop is reduced. In that case, the ball joint lives in a travel range biased with more angle, but the max ball angle is identical.

Unfortunately, I didn’t measure my 5100s before install so I can’t say if they are in fact the same length. My stock ORP front shock is about 22.125” from bottom bolt centerline to top plate seat.

Also, the only way to know if the ball is maxed out is to remove the boot from the joint, and rebuild the suspension, then jack it up to inspect the ball for clearance. I doubt anybody here has done that. We’re all sort of going on a whim that it looks okay as is.

 

[Bubba33]

You need to look at angle at full droop not on flat ground. The joint has to be able to withstand the entire length of travel

Why do I need to do that?

 

[DeDax]

@ el taco, I guess that is what leads me to my planned addition of the Mopar UCA's. While they might not be the most performance oriented of the aftermarket arms, I reckon that any decrease in angle should help overall travel, right? With the 5100's/ORP springs & the slight angle improvement from the UCA's I'd imagine we'd be pretty set. I guess there is only 1 way to find out. I have an inquiry to my local dealer ship for specific pricing on the UCA's and ORP springs. Once I get those locked down, I will get the 5100/5160 F/R and give this a try.

 

[Sugar]

Why do I need to do that?

It should be considered due to the potential stress when fully extended. If the ball joint limits the travel because it cannot keep a usable angle, it will lead to eventual failure. Say the wheel was to leave the ground for some reason (whether off road or on), then the stress on the ball joint could be very high if it is not capable of the full extension of the suspension.

 

[Eltaco]

It should be considered due to the potential stress when fully extended. If the ball joint limits the travel because it cannot keep a usable angle, it will lead to eventual failure. Say the wheel was to leave the ground for some reason (whether off road or on), then the stress on the ball joint could be very high if it is not capable of the full extension of the suspension.

Makes sense, hypotetically. It comes down to what limits travel. I think the shock itself actually limits the suspension travel. If that’s the case, the ball joint experiences the exact same maximum droop as stock.

FWIW, my Tacoma went thru ball joints every 50k miles. That was usually due to a boot tear, which let enough crud in to destroy the joint quickly after. That ball joint with 3” lift was at a pretty extreme angle at normal ride position. The boot fins were folded over on themselves pretty hard.... that was with an aftermarket UCA, as well.

The mopar UCA has the same ball angle, but supposedly a higher allowable angle of ball joint travel. I’ll be riding my factory OEM joints until I experience a boot tear or joint looseness, and then I’ll swap to the Mopar arms simply due to price. I’m not yet sure if that’s 50k or 100k mi, but I don’t see anything to indicate it’s going to catastrophicly blow out.

 

[Sugar]

Makes sense, hypotetically. It comes down to what limits travel. I think the shock itself actually limits the suspension travel. If that’s the case, the ball joint experiences the exact same maximum droop as stock.

FWIW, my Tacoma went thru ball joints every 50k miles. That was usually due to a boot tear, which let enough crud in to destroy the joint quickly after. That ball joint with 3” lift was at a pretty extreme angle at normal ride position. The boot fins were folded over on themselves pretty hard.... that was with an aftermarket UCA, as well.

The mopar UCA has the same ball angle, but supposedly a higher allowable angle of ball joint travel. I’ll be riding my factory OEM joints until I experience a boot tear or joint looseness, and then I’ll swap to the Mopar arms simply due to price. I’m not yet sure if that’s 50k or 100k mi, but I don’t see anything to indicate it’s going to catastrophicly blow out.

Yeah your brought up the real question earlier; does the ball joint or the UCA limit travel? Once I do my 5100s this summer I will try to determine this. They are sitting in my garage for now...

 

[Bubba33]

It should be considered due to the potential stress when fully extended. If the ball joint limits the travel because it cannot keep a usable angle, it will lead to eventual failure. Say the wheel was to leave the ground for some reason (whether off road or on), then the stress on the ball joint could be very high if it is not capable of the full extension of the suspension.

Sorry man just don't know why you were quoting me. I never said nothing about measuring anything . Mine is fine it doesn't go off road , just didn't like the rake and it sitting so low. Thanks though.

 

[Sugar]

Sorry man just don't know why you were quoting me. I never said nothing about measuring anything . Mine is fine it doesn't go off road , just didn't like the rake and it sitting so low. Thanks though.

Was just answering your question on “Why do I need that?”

 

[Bubba33]

It should be considered due to the potential stress when fully extended. If the ball joint limits the travel because it cannot keep a usable angle, it will lead to eventual failure. Say the wheel was to leave the ground for some reason (whether off road or on), then the stress on the ball joint could be very high if it is not capable of the full extension of the suspension.

Mine is fine ,and my question wasn't to you.

 

[Sugar]

Mine is fine ,and my question wasn't to you.

Chill, was trying to help in a public forum

 

[DeDax]

soooo.... back on topic.. any suggestions on Mopar vs. Bilstein/ORP set up would be great. Thanks all.