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ever wonder what's so complicated about computer chips?

JBV

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"it's not rocket science, it's much more complicated" i had no idea, but this article sheds light on just what is involved in making a microprocessor and the economics of it all. we live in a time of staggering complexity that our problems are not easily solved, at least not quickly, not even with billions of dollars involved.
 

bigdodge

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"it's not rocket science, it's much more complicated" i had no idea, but this article sheds light on just what is involved in making a microprocessor and the economics of it all. we live in a time of staggering complexity that our problems are not easily solved, at least not quickly, not even with billions of dollars involved.
everyone should read this to understand it is not just one chip on a circuit board!

nice find.
 

Trippi

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Unfortunately we put all our eggs in China's basket and can't decide which bathroom to use
This right here. Hopefully this message is resonating with the masses that our elected officials set us up to fail. They just hoped we wouldn't notice before the country was completely lost. But folks would notice not being able to get some of their most 'basic' things and start demanding change.
 

jimchi

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everyone should read this to understand it is not just one chip on a circuit board!
Why read and understand when you can just parrot an irrelevant soundbite?
Unfortunately we put all our eggs in China's basket and can't decide which bathroom to use

From the article:
Most of the roughly 1.4 billion smartphone processors shipped each year are made by TSMC. Intel has 80% of the market for computer processors. Samsung dominates in memory chips. For everyone else, including China, it’s not easy to break in.
 

Scram1500

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Why read and understand when you can just parrot an irrelevant soundbite?
It's extremely relevant. We have our priorities upside down and we are being jerked around by China. A country that doesn't have the red tape of the environment or human rights in their way. A country that is building an epic military while we indulge the woke
 

Aseras

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China itself has nothing to do with it. It is the laziness and cheapening out of corporations no longer wanting to order ahead and keep inventories of stock. They laid off and shipped talent overseas got reliant on just in time manufacturing when there was a glut of oversupply and now are reaping the rewards all while blaming everything and everyone but themselves. None of those cost "savings" were passed down, they cut even more corners and were busy doubling down even more and it was all eaten up as quick profit and you can expect the massive price increases to be driven more and more by profit alone and not a damn thing to change in the foreseeable future because they can't. They sold off and shuttered every bit of domestic production. Its gone, and what it would take to bring them back would kill even the biggest companies right now. As soon as the market imploded here in a few months and makes 2008, the 90s bubble and the 29 crash look like happy endings, expect a lot of these companies to go under.

China is probably the only smart player in the world and has probably won WW3 already by checkmating the world economies.
 

Eighty

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China itself has nothing to do with it. It is the laziness and cheapening out of corporations no longer wanting to order ahead and keep inventories of stock. They laid off and shipped talent overseas got reliant on just in time manufacturing when there was a glut of oversupply and now are reaping the rewards all while blaming everything and everyone but themselves. None of those cost "savings" were passed down, they cut even more corners and were busy doubling down even more and it was all eaten up as quick profit and you can expect the massive price increases to be driven more and more by profit alone and not a damn thing to change in the foreseeable future because they can't. They sold off and shuttered every bit of domestic production. Its gone, and what it would take to bring them back would kill even the biggest companies right now. As soon as the market imploded here in a few months and makes 2008, the 90s bubble and the 29 crash look like happy endings, expect a lot of these companies to go under.

China is probably the only smart player in the world and has probably won WW3 already by checkmating the world economies.
That is a very simplistic view. It feels good to say, but the truth is substantially more complicated. Every business faces competitive challenge - and if your costs are too high, then you’re toast. So when domestic unions demand a pay increase from crazy to ridiculous, and a company overseas is willing to do it for half the price - well, you do what makes business sense. Sometimes it bites you in the a$$, but 90% of the time it is the way to stay competitive.
If there’s any mistake that was made, it was the lack of diversification in the supply chain. I’m guilty of it myself, but I’m learning too.
 

Aseras

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Yep that worldview is exactly why no one wants to work for minimum wage or anything under a living wage anymore. Its why restaurants and bars and many places are closing because they have no staff. Its not a shortage of workers, if the pay were competitive they'd have all the workers they needed. It's tightwad management refusing to cut into profit to maintain a workforce. Because people have been sold on the lie that those people are not worth being paid a living wage and are replaceable. That everyone making more money is a better person who deserves it and did it all through hard work and so they deserve to be able to treat everyone making less than them worse.

That cheap foreign labor you so love was poison and the dose was just low enough to get all these companies addicted to it. They now cannot live without it. These other countries knew that, it was calculated from the beginning to destroy those companies and to capture the industries. Those companies are just now starting to see that the noose is already tightened and that the trap has been sprung.
When you no longer control your supply chain you no longer make your product, you are just slapping your name on someone else's product. The rampant counterfeiting wasn't a big enough clue. Those companies are now slaves to their slave laborers.
 

Hasti17

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I live near the GF foundry in upstate NY. They sold all their tools(fabs call their production machinery "tools")to make the automotive chipsets just before the Shortage. According to an engineer working there, they REALLY shot themselves in the foot and are scrambling to try and get back in the game
 

SD Rebel

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It's extremely relevant. We have our priorities upside down and we are being jerked around by China. A country that doesn't have the red tape of the environment or human rights in their way. A country that is building an epic military while we indulge the woke

Well, to be honest their military budget (along with the rest of the World) is tiny compared to the US.

That being said, how do you stay competitive with a country with over a billion people with generally one mind thinking of ruling the World? As you mentioned earlier without any of the safeguards and policies everyone has to abide by? Who is happy using global partnerships to steal intellectual property and fast track their economy? Though I understand it's not like the US history of growth was always paved with the best intentions either.

It's not their military I'm worried about, but their generations of kids going through school and higher education ready to take over the World economically. While our kids are trying to be YouTube stars and focusing on Tiktok, they are creating a generation of people ready to be leaders of industry with the manufacturing and infrastructure to back it up.

I honestly don't see how we don't lose our number 1 World power in the next 10 years. We are likely to get surpassed by India as well by that time.
 

ktl5005

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I love all the China comments. The majority of semiconductors and microchips are NOT produced in China…………it’s TSMC of Taiwan which produces about 90% of the WORLDs chips. Next after that is South Korea.

China has nothing to do with this parrots
 

SD Rebel

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I love all the China comments. The majority of semiconductors and microchips are NOT produced in China…………it’s TSMC of Taiwan which produces about 90% of the WORLDs chips. Next after that is South Korea.

China has nothing to do with this parrots

Depends who you ask in China if Taiwan is another country :), but I get you, they certainly don't get along.

The Chinese aspect of these has expanded beyond the main point I think, to a political one.
 

ktl5005

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Depends who you ask in China if Taiwan is another country :), but I get you, they certainly don't get along.

The Chinese aspect of these has expanded beyond the main point I think, to a political one.
Yup as does everything other thread like this these days……even a quick Google search tells you it’s Taiwan then South Korea.
 

AV8OR

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I love all the China comments. The majority of semiconductors and microchips are NOT produced in China…………it’s TSMC of Taiwan which produces about 90% of the WORLDs chips. Next after that is South Korea.

China has nothing to do with this parrots

I read recently this would be the primary reason China would move to takeover Taiwan.

Not only to lock up the world supply of chips but just to have an uninterrupted supply of chips to keep their factories humming.
 

ktl5005

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I read recently this would be the primary reason China would move to takeover Taiwan.

Not only to lock up the world supply of chips but just to have an uninterrupted supply of chips to keep their factories humming.
If they ever did that would be a valid reason but I don’t think the world community would be OK with them doing that
 

arod412

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Reason why America big corporations is just so cheap. $20billion to build a facility, that would be obsolete in about 5 years.

Yes, you can make up that money, but you have to build the structure first. I’m sure here, it cost more to build due to labor practices. That’s why it’s better to just do it overseas.


2022 Big Horn Back Country
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2016 Dodge Charger scat pack and my wife 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
 

bigdodge

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. I’m sure here, it cost more to build due to labor practices.
why does everyone always talk about labor practices? when the owners and ceo's get 1000 times what the average worker gets. we only want to share in their success, after all with out us they would have nothing.
 

gpbst3

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There was a 20/20 episode a few weeks ago that toured the only US chip plant. The guide said this a 10 billion dollar plant and they dont even have the technology to build the chips Apple requires. They can only be made overseas. They are working on building a new plant but it is years away.

China is going to get into the chip industry. With the US withdrawal Afghanistan I believe China is already talking to the Taliban to mine for precious metal.
 

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