Etorque Seized

[TheWaterman83]

Glad it went well for you and you're back up and running. I'm at 87,xxx miles now myself so just a touch more than you. Hopefully my truck allows me the opportunity to plan for this - my intention is to do it sometime in the next 8,000 miles as preventative maintenance.

If you hear any grinding, whining, screeching on cold starts. Chances are it COULD be your eTorque on it's way out. It could also be a failing pulley or tensioner but 3 out of 3 times on my truck it was the eTorque generator.

 

[Klondike]

I went through three generators within 83,000 miles and the last one caused me to trade the truck in. Couple things:

First off, good for you on tackling that yourself. Second, just be careful. When the last one on my truck failed the dealer was very reluctant to let me drive it. When they fail and the armature contacts, it can send a voltage spike through the system. My service tech said they've seen them fry BCM's, TCM's, and all sorts of stuff. If that shorts again, just know it can cause a lot of issues.

I am sorry you went through this. Like I said, this caused me to trade the truck for a Ford F150.

Thanks for the warning. To be honest, though, I struggle to see why this is any different than any other alternator with respect to the potential for damage to other systems. It's not common to cook modules when regular alternators fail, but then again, bearings don't usually fail catastrophically on other systems. Anything is possible, but I have had so many bad experiences with dealers. They are either flat out dishonest, or not knowledgeable enough to provide good information and try to cover by making themselves look smart to the general public. Neither one is not beneficial to us, the customer. Even more frustrating, there is no information available to support rebuild/repair of the mechanical portion of these units. $80 in bearings and a few hours labour and they could save themselves so much reputational damage. No vehicle is perfect, all will have problems. I buy used and keep mine for 400k km's so I expect to repair things. If you make information available so aftermarket can support it, local shops can do basic labour work, etc., and not have people forking out thousands of dollars and waiting weeks for backorder parts, that has to be an overall good thing, right? Proprietary modules and control systems are fine - I wouldn't buy aftermarket for anything I wanted to make sure worked properly anyway. But not providing a parts list or testing specs so an alternator shop could rebuild the basic components is mind boggling. Its 100 year old technology. It's not revolutionary.

I'm sorry you had to go to a Ford... - just kidding. These things just have to work. That's the one non-negotiable!

 

[John Kloehr]

Thanks for the warning. To be honest, though, I struggle to see why this is any different than any other alternator with respect to the potential for damage to other systems. It's not common to cook modules when regular alternators fail, but then again, bearings don't usually fail catastrophically on other systems. Anything is possible, but I have had so many bad experiences with dealers. They are either flat out dishonest, or not knowledgeable enough to provide good information and try to cover by making themselves look smart to the general public. Neither one is not beneficial to us, the customer. Even more frustrating, there is no information available to support rebuild/repair of the mechanical portion of these units. $80 in bearings and a few hours labour and they could save themselves so much reputational damage. No vehicle is perfect, all will have problems. I buy used and keep mine for 400k km's so I expect to repair things. If you make information available so aftermarket can support it, local shops can do basic labour work, etc., and not have people forking out thousands of dollars and waiting weeks for backorder parts, that has to be an overall good thing, right? Proprietary modules and control systems are fine - I wouldn't buy aftermarket for anything I wanted to make sure worked properly anyway. But not providing a parts list or testing specs so an alternator shop could rebuild the basic components is mind boggling. Its 100 year old technology. It's not revolutionary.

I'm sorry you had to go to a Ford... - just kidding. These things just have to work. That's the one non-negotiable!

There are two problems here. The biggest is a Stellantis issue, not having replacements for failures in warranty. And the warranty is 80K miles as this is an "emissions" part.

The second is there not being a good program of rebuilt parts, but for those who can wrench... We are solving that on this forum.

I do hear some noise on cold start which I have not tracked down, I am concerned it might be the eTorque generator. If the alternative to me fixing it myself is waiting months for a warrantee part, I'll fix it myself. If that happens, I should sue Stellantis in small claims court for the parts and my time. Probably will not get anything for my time, but might win on cost of the parts.

 

[TheWaterman83]

Thanks for the warning. To be honest, though, I struggle to see why this is any different than any other alternator with respect to the potential for damage to other systems. It's not common to cook modules when regular alternators fail, but then again, bearings don't usually fail catastrophically on other systems. Anything is possible, but I have had so many bad experiences with dealers. They are either flat out dishonest, or not knowledgeable enough to provide good information and try to cover by making themselves look smart to the general public. Neither one is not beneficial to us, the customer. Even more frustrating, there is no information available to support rebuild/repair of the mechanical portion of these units. $80 in bearings and a few hours labour and they could save themselves so much reputational damage. No vehicle is perfect, all will have problems. I buy used and keep mine for 400k km's so I expect to repair things. If you make information available so aftermarket can support it, local shops can do basic labour work, etc., and not have people forking out thousands of dollars and waiting weeks for backorder parts, that has to be an overall good thing, right? Proprietary modules and control systems are fine - I wouldn't buy aftermarket for anything I wanted to make sure worked properly anyway. But not providing a parts list or testing specs so an alternator shop could rebuild the basic components is mind boggling. Its 100 year old technology. It's not revolutionary.

I'm sorry you had to go to a Ford... - just kidding. These things just have to work. That's the one non-negotiable!

Oh my friend there is a very big difference.

Just so you know, that eTorque is different in a few ways. It handles three jobs:

- It's a generator, NOT an alternator. That generator charges the 48v battery behind your rear seat. The 48v battery then feeds into your 12v starting battery. That's how your 12v "main" battery is charged. That's another issue. They seem to go less than the generators themselves but the 48v batteries have been known to go and they are expensive, hard to find, and also need to be programmed by the dealer. You can find them on ebay for $100 to $2000 depending on condition BUT...they need to be programmed by the dealer. The wonky thing is you may see 48v or more coming out of that unit, not 12v. Ram tried for a regenerative motor system but failed. Good on them for the idea, bad execution.

- It's also an assistance drive unit that adds starting torque for trailering, coming off stops on incline, etc. This is also why the bearings fail. You have two types of torque exerted on the motor unit generator. Torque from the unit itself, and then torque from the motor in your truck, itself. This back and forth of different types of torque is not good.

- Auto start stop. This is the worst thing for them and I HIGHLY suggest you consider getting an auto stop start eliminator. I have one for sale that works for up to 2024's on here. A lot of people don't know this but that's what starts your truck when you take your foot off the brake at stop lights, intersections, etc. Ever notice how their is no wind up? Just instant starting? It's literally instant max torque from 0 rpm to start the main motor of the truck. You also have a regular 12v starter that's used for cold starts of your truck. I know because that was another thing that went on my truck.

On the dealers, I was the rarity that had a great dealer. In fact, if not for them, I probably would have traded the Rebel in years ago. They were honest with me on a lot of things. The eTorque's have a LOT of problems, and they didn't lie.

All trucks/cars (now) have problems but mine were bad. I would venture to say I had $20,000 in warranty repairs since owning the truck.

- 2 eTorque replacements ($6400)
- Evap core failure ($4000 repair, whole dash has to come out of the truck)
- Rear back glass failure ($2500)
- Power tow mirrors (never bothered to look but probably $1000 at least)
- TPMS failure
- Starter failure

And the list goes on. I think my mistake was buying a first model year truck.

 

[TheWaterman83]

There are two problems here. The biggest is a Stellantis issue, not having replacements for failures in warranty. And the warranty is 80K miles as this is an "emissions" part.

The second is there not being a good program of rebuilt parts, but for those who can wrench... We are solving that on this forum.

I do hear some noise on cold start which I have not tracked down, I am concerned it might be the eTorque generator. If the alternative to me fixing it myself is waiting months for a warrantee part, I'll fix it myself. If that happens, I should sue Stellantis in small claims court for the parts and my time. Probably will not get anything for my time, but might win on cost of the parts.

It's a grinding noise when the bearings are about to go. It's almost halfway between grinding and ringing. Like a combo of both.

 

[Ram1500OwnerMaybe]

Is this a one off weird issue or is this indeed a known issue with the eTorque system?

 

[John Kloehr]

Is this a one off weird issue or is this indeed a known issue with the eTorque system?

Known, but not every vehicle has a failure. Like Hemi Tick or a cracked exhaust manifold.

 

[Snekpete]

I wonder if keeping the auto start/stop off will help to prolong the MGU's life?

 

[TheWaterman83]

I wonder if keeping the auto start/stop off will help to prolong the MGU's life?

This was my theory. I put my auto stop start eliminator on at like 81k miles (bit late) and the truck was traded at 83k miles. Not long enough to tell. It was, in fact, my theory though.

 

[Klondike]

Oh my friend there is a very big difference.

Just so you know, that eTorque is different in a few ways. It handles three jobs:

- It's a generator, NOT an alternator. That generator charges the 48v battery behind your rear seat. The 48v battery then feeds into your 12v starting battery. That's how your 12v "main" battery is charged. That's another issue. They seem to go less than the generators themselves but the 48v batteries have been known to go and they are expensive, hard to find, and also need to be programmed by the dealer. You can find them on ebay for $100 to $2000 depending on condition BUT...they need to be programmed by the dealer. The wonky thing is you may see 48v or more coming out of that unit, not 12v. Ram tried for a regenerative motor system but failed. Good on them for the idea, bad execution.

- It's also an assistance drive unit that adds starting torque for trailering, coming off stops on incline, etc. This is also why the bearings fail. You have two types of torque exerted on the motor unit generator. Torque from the unit itself, and then torque from the motor in your truck, itself. This back and forth of different types of torque is not good.

- Auto start stop. This is the worst thing for them and I HIGHLY suggest you consider getting an auto stop start eliminator. I have one for sale that works for up to 2024's on here. A lot of people don't know this but that's what starts your truck when you take your foot off the brake at stop lights, intersections, etc. Ever notice how their is no wind up? Just instant starting? It's literally instant max torque from 0 rpm to start the main motor of the truck. You also have a regular 12v starter that's used for cold starts of your truck. I know because that was another thing that went on my truck.

On the dealers, I was the rarity that had a great dealer. In fact, if not for them, I probably would have traded the Rebel in years ago. They were honest with me on a lot of things. The eTorque's have a LOT of problems, and they didn't lie.

All trucks/cars (now) have problems but mine were bad. I would venture to say I had $20,000 in warranty repairs since owning the truck.

- 2 eTorque replacements ($6400)
- Evap core failure ($4000 repair, whole dash has to come out of the truck)
- Rear back glass failure ($2500)
- Power tow mirrors (never bothered to look but probably $1000 at least)
- TPMS failure
- Starter failure

And the list goes on. I think my mistake was buying a first model year truck.

I fully understand the operation of the MGU and the etorque system. My point was that effectively, all alternators are generators. All generators can be turned into motors. So this MGU is no different. The components are almost identical, it just comes down to how the flow of electricity is controlled managed. While these MGU’s have been turned into something mysterious and magical and unobtainable by the dealers, there’s nothing special about the physical pieces. They’ve just implemented it at a unique location. All hybrids or EV’s use the same concept and operation through regenerative braking. Motor/Generator, same/same.


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[Klondike]

This was my theory. I put my auto stop start eliminator on at like 81k miles (bit late) and the truck was traded at 83k miles. Not long enough to tell. It was, in fact, my theory though.

I really don’t think this should make a difference, but having said that, I don’t enjoy the start/stop feature and also disable it.

Start/stop is terrible for the oil flooded bearing in the engine - when the engine stops, the ball bearings contact the races. When in operation, they ride on a film of oil and there is almost no wear. Everytime they stop rolling/start rolling, there is a little wear. More start/stops lead to more wear. You don’t really see bearing life as the limiting element in modern automotive engines, but that may change with these start/stop systems. So I disable it also.

But the bearings in the MGU are not oil flooded, they’re grease packed and unserviceable. These types experience more wear, just through normal operation (like trailer beatings).

In my opinion it’s either two things that are the problem here:
1. Poor bearing design/selection or poor quality
2. Excessive belt tension, which could relate back to point 1 above.

Having said that, I have replaced almost every component on the front of an engine at some point due to bearing issues. Water pump, belt tensioner, alternator, most frequent failure is due to bearings. So not entirely surprising the MGU is subject to the same problem. Hot temps and susceptible to dust and water ingress. Just support the repairs like the rest of these components and this would be a minor issue.


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[Grape_Ape]

This was my theory. I put my auto stop start eliminator on at like 81k miles (bit late) and the truck was traded at 83k miles. Not long enough to tell. It was, in fact, my theory though.

I've considered this as well. I can say with utmost certainty that my auto start/stop is turned off 99% of the time that I'm driving. So much so that if I forget I'm a bit pissed off at myself lol. This is just spit ball engineering so it very likely is wrong. Similar to the post above - I've considered that maybe the "start" is the most violent part due to the belt tension. So limiting the number of violent events leads to reduced wear on the bearings.

 

[G Gerard]

I wonder if keeping the auto start/stop off will help to prolong the MGU's life?

I have been convinced that start stop and MDS are culprits for this and other issues. I also purchased a Pulsar XT module to turn off these functions permanently, without having to remember each time I start my truck.

 

[SpeedyV]

Is this a one off weird issue or is this indeed a known issue with the eTorque system?

Pretty rare. My 2019 (knock on wood) has been super solid so far. I splurged on the Mopar Lifetime MaxCare warranty when it was still offered (late '18) for peace of mind, given my May 2018 order with all of the goodies.