DEF consumption, normal?

[Aseras]

That is probably why when the truck idles there is barely any sound or exhaust pressure coming from each of the tail pipes.
I plan on keeping this truck a long time, my previous was a 2011 Outdoorsman, I sure hope all those emission controls last.
I’m pretty sure that the emission system has its own type of warranty, i think it is 6 years, that was the reason for most exhaust system going to stainless, the manufacturer was responsible for the repairs with premature failures.

AFAIK federal emissions require a 8yr 80,000 mile warranty.

Frequent Questions related to Transportation, Air Pollution, and Climate Change | US EPA

Frequently asked questions and answers that are received by EPA's Office of Transportation and Air Quality.

www.epa.gov

 

[Rebelguy2020]

AFAIK federal emissions require a 8yr 80,000 mile warranty.

Frequent Questions related to Transportation, Air Pollution, and Climate Change | US EPA

Frequently asked questions and answers that are received by EPA's Office of Transportation and Air Quality.

www.epa.gov

Thanks for adding the correct info.

 

[bill-e]

Thanks for adding the correct info.

Generally speaking maybe...it's all in the details. For a new vehicle in California that is mostly true but the rest of the US is 3/36 (2/24 without a manufacturers bumper to bumper) and 80K for many other parts with the DEF tank and control system covered under the 3/36.

A. Parts Covered For Two Years Or 24,000 Miles Federal law requires FCA US LLC to warrant the following emissions parts for two years or 24,000 miles, whichever occurs first. FCA US LLC covers all of these parts under the Basic Limited Warranty for three years or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Ram 1500 — Diesel
• Charge Air Cooler (CAC)
• Crankcase ventilation system
• Electronic fuel injection system, including injectors
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve and control system
• Exhaust manifold
• Fuel cap, tank assembly, pump, and fuel lines
• Glow plugs • Intake manifold
• Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor
• Nitrous oxide sensors
• On-board diagnostic-system components
• Oxygen sensors • Particulate matter sensor
• Throttle body
• Transmission Control Module (TCM)
• Turbocharger
• UREA (DEF) tank and control system
• Vacuum hoses, clamps, and fittings, as well as tubing used for these components
• Vacuum, temperature, altitude, speed, time sensitive valves, sensors, and switches used in these components

B. Parts Covered For Eight years Or 80,000 Miles If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of eight years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in “section 2.1 E”. The covered parts are:
• Catalytic Converter
• Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
• Oxidation Catalyst/Particulate Filter Assembly
• Selective Catalytic Reduction Catalyst Assembly

 

[WXman]

That is probably why when the truck idles there is barely any sound or exhaust pressure coming from each of the tail pipes.
I plan on keeping this truck a long time, my previous was a 2011 Outdoorsman, I sure hope all those emission controls last.
I’m pretty sure that the emission system has its own type of warranty, i think it is 6 years, that was the reason for most exhaust system going to stainless, the manufacturer was responsible for the repairs with premature failures.

AFAIK federal emissions require a 8yr 80,000 mile warranty.

Frequent Questions related to Transportation, Air Pollution, and Climate Change | US EPA

Frequently asked questions and answers that are received by EPA's Office of Transportation and Air Quality.

www.epa.gov

Generally speaking maybe...it's all in the details. For a new vehicle in California that is mostly true but the rest of the US is 3/36 (2/24 without a manufacturers bumper to bumper) and 80K for many other parts with the DEF tank and control system covered under the 3/36.

A. Parts Covered For Two Years Or 24,000 Miles Federal law requires FCA US LLC to warrant the following emissions parts for two years or 24,000 miles, whichever occurs first. FCA US LLC covers all of these parts under the Basic Limited Warranty for three years or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Ram 1500 — Diesel
• Charge Air Cooler (CAC)
• Crankcase ventilation system
• Electronic fuel injection system, including injectors
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve and control system
• Exhaust manifold
• Fuel cap, tank assembly, pump, and fuel lines
• Glow plugs • Intake manifold
• Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor
• Nitrous oxide sensors
• On-board diagnostic-system components
• Oxygen sensors • Particulate matter sensor
• Throttle body
• Transmission Control Module (TCM)
• Turbocharger
• UREA (DEF) tank and control system
• Vacuum hoses, clamps, and fittings, as well as tubing used for these components
• Vacuum, temperature, altitude, speed, time sensitive valves, sensors, and switches used in these components

B. Parts Covered For Eight years Or 80,000 Miles If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of eight years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in “section 2.1 E”. The covered parts are:
• Catalytic Converter
• Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
• Oxidation Catalyst/Particulate Filter Assembly
• Selective Catalytic Reduction Catalyst Assembly

Yeah I was getting ready to say there are a lot of emissions components that are sporting really short term warranties. That's why if mine ever go bad I'll get rid of the truck or delete it all. No way in heck I'm paying thousands of dollars to replace parts I don't want on my trucks to start with.

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Generally speaking maybe...it's all in the details. For a new vehicle in California that is mostly true but the rest of the US is 3/36 (2/24 without a manufacturers bumper to bumper) and 80K for many other parts with the DEF tank and control system covered under the 3/36.

A. Parts Covered For Two Years Or 24,000 Miles Federal law requires FCA US LLC to warrant the following emissions parts for two years or 24,000 miles, whichever occurs first. FCA US LLC covers all of these parts under the Basic Limited Warranty for three years or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Ram 1500 — Diesel
• Charge Air Cooler (CAC)
• Crankcase ventilation system
• Electronic fuel injection system, including injectors
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve and control system
• Exhaust manifold
• Fuel cap, tank assembly, pump, and fuel lines
• Glow plugs • Intake manifold
• Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor
• Nitrous oxide sensors
• On-board diagnostic-system components
• Oxygen sensors • Particulate matter sensor
• Throttle body
• Transmission Control Module (TCM)
• Turbocharger
• UREA (DEF) tank and control system
• Vacuum hoses, clamps, and fittings, as well as tubing used for these components
• Vacuum, temperature, altitude, speed, time sensitive valves, sensors, and switches used in these components

B. Parts Covered For Eight years Or 80,000 Miles If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of eight years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in “section 2.1 E”. The covered parts are:
• Catalytic Converter
• Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
• Oxidation Catalyst/Particulate Filter Assembly
• Selective Catalytic Reduction Catalyst Assembly

Generally speaking maybe...it's all in the details. For a new vehicle in California that is mostly true but the rest of the US is 3/36 (2/24 without a manufacturers bumper to bumper) and 80K for many other parts with the DEF tank and control system covered under the 3/36.

A. Parts Covered For Two Years Or 24,000 Miles Federal law requires FCA US LLC to warrant the following emissions parts for two years or 24,000 miles, whichever occurs first. FCA US LLC covers all of these parts under the Basic Limited Warranty for three years or 36,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Ram 1500 — Diesel
• Charge Air Cooler (CAC)
• Crankcase ventilation system
• Electronic fuel injection system, including injectors
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve and control system
• Exhaust manifold
• Fuel cap, tank assembly, pump, and fuel lines
• Glow plugs • Intake manifold
• Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor
• Nitrous oxide sensors
• On-board diagnostic-system components
• Oxygen sensors • Particulate matter sensor
• Throttle body
• Transmission Control Module (TCM)
• Turbocharger
• UREA (DEF) tank and control system
• Vacuum hoses, clamps, and fittings, as well as tubing used for these components
• Vacuum, temperature, altitude, speed, time sensitive valves, sensors, and switches used in these components

B. Parts Covered For Eight years Or 80,000 Miles If your vehicle has one of the following parts, this Federal Emission Warranty covers that part for a period of eight years or 80,000 miles, whichever occurs first, calculated from the start of the Basic Limited Warranty as set forth in “section 2.1 E”. The covered parts are:
• Catalytic Converter
• Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
• Oxidation Catalyst/Particulate Filter AssemblyI
• Selective Catalytic Reduction Catalyst Assemblyguess

Well it sure sounds like I was really wrong about the warranty on the emission system. Something doesn’t sound right about the 24 months warranty, I never heard about that, but you did find that in writing and I believe you, it sure is hard to believe that any other electronic parts like the 12 inch screen, Harmon Kardon system and all other sensors are under the 3year warranty.

I really like my Rebel diesel but I am not at ease about the shortened warranty!

The FCA warranty for me in Canada is 60,000km/36 month for bumper to bumper of course whichever comes first and 100,000km/60 months for powertrain again whichever comes first.

I will look at the warranty info for emissions in Canada.

I know that California usually sets the standards for a lot of things like emissions, pollution regulations, flame retardants.....Canada usually follows those standards closely.

 

[bill-e]

Well it sure sounds like I was really wrong about the warranty on the emission system. Something doesn’t sound right about the 24 months warranty, I never heard about that, but you did find that in writing and I believe you, it sure is hard to believe that any other electronic parts like the 12 inch screen, Harmon Kardon system and all other sensors are under the 3year warranty.

I really like my Rebel diesel but I am not at ease about the shortened warranty!

The FCA warranty for me in Canada is 60,000km/36 month for bumper to bumper of course whichever comes first and 100,000km/60 months for powertrain again whichever comes first.

I will look at the warranty info for emissions in Canada.

I know that California usually sets the standards for a lot of things like emissions, pollution regulations, flame retardants.....Canada usually follows those standards closely.

Here it is, basically the same as the US warranty.

From the FCA Canada Ram 1500 Warranty manual
EMISSION DEFECT WARRANTY
The 3/60 Basic Warranty covers all emission control components for 3 years or 60,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first. The Emission Defect warranty provides longer coverage for specified components. To receive this coverage the vehicles onboard diagnostic system must indicate a failed emission component.

LIGHT-DUTY TRUCKS-1500 SERIES TRUCK (ALL GAS AND DIESEL ENGINES) The Defect Warranty covers the following major emission control parts, if so equipped, for 8 years or 130,000-kilometres, whichever occurs first:
• catalytic converter
• powertrain control module
• diesel particulate filter
• belt driven hybrid starter generator assembly
• power pack unit - 48 volt

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Here it is, basically the same as the US warranty.

From the FCA Canada Ram 1500 Warranty manual
EMISSION DEFECT WARRANTY
The 3/60 Basic Warranty covers all emission control components for 3 years or 60,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first. The Emission Defect warranty provides longer coverage for specified components. To receive this coverage the vehicles onboard diagnostic system must indicate a failed emission component.

LIGHT-DUTY TRUCKS-1500 SERIES TRUCK (ALL GAS AND DIESEL ENGINES) The Defect Warranty covers the following major emission control parts, if so equipped, for 8 years or 130,000-kilometres, whichever occurs first:
• catalytic converter
• powertrain control module
• diesel particulate filter
• belt driven hybrid starter generator assembly
• power pack unit - 48 volt

Thank you, I feel better now!

 

[Borsig]

On the smaller end of the scale, I have a 2015 VW Passat TDi. It has a 2.0L turbo-diesel. Mine has already been "fixed". One of the dieselgate fixes increased the DEF consumption. The DEF tank holds 18.5L/19.5 qt.

That ~5 gallons will last me 15-18,000 miles. (I'll add just under 2.5 gallons every 10,000 miles.)

Sure, different engines, different payloads, etc. But, I'm surprised what I'm reading here for the amount of DEF being consumed by this truck.

TDI owner here considering an ECO D. This thing uses a LOT of DEF. DEF here is 2.50 a gallon at the fuel service center.

 

[tom318]

TDI owner here considering an ECO D. This thing uses a LOT of DEF. DEF here is 2.50 a gallon at the fuel service center.

I still own the TDI I replaced with this truck and I've put more DEF already in the Ecodiesel then I have in my entire ownership of my 2015 Golf Sportwagen. I do about 1 gallon of DEF per 1000miles. My golf is also "fixed" with a KERMA Stage 1 tune. It uses very little DEF. That being said, still love the truck and the range with the 33gallon tank.

 

[Borsig]

well. Def is 2.50 a gallon. 1 gallon every 1k isn't actually that bad considering....

 

[shaggie]

in winter with remote start and highway diving my 2020 Ram 1500 Rebel had the truck will not start in 400 kms after 7500kms of driving. Looks like winter consumption is higher and then I am guessing remote start doesn't help.

on my 2021 ram rebel diesel i have driven 1800kms and i have used close to 3/4th of the tank.
The way engine performs between 20 and 21 MY is very different, 21 seems to be a lot quieter and when the vehicle starts after remote start, RPM drop (in winter) compared to 2020 where it would still maintain higher RPM when engine is cold.

Nonetheless, i will monitor the consumption and hopefully it gets better during summer.

Regardless, this thing is a beast.

 

[rgreener77]

Hey all-
I've been reading through this thread, I'm curious, for those of you that switched from Gas to Eco diesel, glad you did? Saving money? I have a 2020 Limited with the Hemi and in good ole Uncle Joe's America with gas over $3 the pain at the pump is real. I found a 2021 out there almost identical to mine with the Eco Vs. Hemi. So i'm seriously debating making the switch. I guess i wonder is how much cheaper is it really when you factor in a bit more expensive maintenance and having to add in DEF? appreciate anyone shedding some light for me.

 

[NorthStar]

Hey all-
I've been reading through this thread, I'm curious, for those of you that switched from Gas to Eco diesel, glad you did? Saving money? I have a 2020 Limited with the Hemi and in good ole Uncle Joe's America with gas over $3 the pain at the pump is real. I found a 2021 out there almost identical to mine with the Eco Vs. Hemi. So i'm seriously debating making the switch. I guess i wonder is how much cheaper is it really when you factor in a bit more expensive maintenance and having to add in DEF? appreciate anyone shedding some light for me.

Cheaper? It isn’t - at least in Texas where diesel is more expensive than gasoline, diesels take more oil per oil change, oil/fuel filters are much more expensive than gas, and out of warranty repairs can induce catastrophic anal sphincter release. I know many who have purchased for the perceived MPGs only to trade within a year or two as it wasn’t providing the savings they hoped to see.

I have owned diesels for one purpose - towing. Tow with a Hemi and it does great. Tow with an Ecodiesel and it does fantastic but it comes at a cost. To each their own…

Think of it like you’re buying a drill. You can purchase a 1/4” (Ram 1500 3.6L), 3/8” (Ram 1500 Hemi), 1/2” (Ram 1500 Ecodiesel) or 3/4” (Ram 2500/3500 Cummins). You decide the 1/4” is too small for anything you’ll need around the house. You’re relatively certain the 3/8” will get 98% of the work you you need done and the initial invest is cheaper with lower consumption cost for electricity. Or, you might decide to go with the 1/2” knowing you’re initial investment will be more and the consumption cost higher due to the motor but wanting the versatility for larger jobs. Finally, the 3/4” will easily handle anything you ever had to do with it but the initial investment is steep and that baby will cost you dearly in terms of consumption cost. Typically non-warranty repairs will cost more the larger you go. Finally, based upon my experience going back to the 1980’s with Ram diesels - especially with these post-2010 diesels - post warranty costs can be sky high thus you may wish to keep the gas Ram unless you need a different tool for the job.

 

[Sascwatch]

I save a ton up here in Ontario Canada. Diesel is typically 10-15 cents per litre cheaper than gasoline and I get way better mileage on top of that.

 

[rgreener77]

Cheaper? It isn’t - at least in Texas where diesel is more expensive than gasoline, diesels take more oil per oil change, oil/fuel filters are much more expensive than gas, and out of warranty repairs can induce catastrophic anal sphincter release. I know many who have purchased for the perceived MPGs only to trade within a year or two as it wasn’t providing the savings they hoped to see.

I have owned diesels for one purpose - towing. Tow with a Hemi and it does great. Tow with an Ecodiesel and it does fantastic but it comes at a cost. To each their own…

Thanks for your feedback, appreciate it. Diesel here in NC is typically within .10 cents of Gas. I tow my boat, but usually not far. It's mostly highway miles that are killing me in the Hemi. Lucky to get 16MPG at 70-80

 

[NorthStar]

Yep, the highway is where the Ecodiesel shines…can’t beat it for miles and miles of highways.

For those looking to see the gasoline-price differential, this is a handy guide that you can drill down into each state and each city:

AAA Gas Prices

 

[rgreener77]

We go to the coast a lot here and it's about 35 0 miles round trip. So the miles add up. 26k in 16 months, and i'm working from home!

 

[Rebelguy2020]

Cheaper? It isn’t - at least in Texas where diesel is more expensive than gasoline, diesels take more oil per oil change, oil/fuel filters are much more expensive than gas, and out of warranty repairs can induce catastrophic anal sphincter release. I know many who have purchased for the perceived MPGs only to trade within a year or two as it wasn’t providing the savings they hoped to see.

I have owned diesels for one purpose - towing. Tow with a Hemi and it does great. Tow with an Ecodiesel and it does fantastic but it comes at a cost. To each their own…

Think of it like you’re buying a drill. You can purchase a 1/4” (Ram 1500 3.6L), 3/8” (Ram 1500 Hemi), 1/2” (Ram 1500 Ecodiesel) or 3/4” (Ram 2500/3500 Cummins). You decide the 1/4” is too small for anything you’ll need around the house. You’re relatively certain the 3/8” will get 98% of the work you you need done and the initial invest is cheaper with lower consumption cost for electricity. Or, you might decide to go with the 1/2” knowing you’re initial investment will be more and the consumption cost higher due to the motor but wanting the versatility for larger jobs. Finally, the 3/4” will easily handle anything you ever had to do with it but the initial investment is steep and that baby will cost you dearly in terms of consumption cost. Typically non-warranty repairs will cost more the larger you go. Finally, based upon my experience going back to the 1980’s with Ram diesels - especially with these post-2010 diesels - post warranty costs can be sky high thus you may wish to keep the gas Ram unless you need a different tool for the job.

The ecodiesel has 8 litres of oil compared to 7 litres for the Hemi, so the difference is not that great, the main difference is the ecodiesel must use full synthetic oil while the Hemi can run on regular oil.
I had the Hemi before my ecodiesel, my real life comparison:
My Ecodiesel with 37,000 km at last week fuel price ($1.23 litre) total cost =$5,137
My Hemi with 37,000 km at last week regular gas price ($1.47 litre) total cost =$8,529
The numbers above are for summer fuel/gas economy, the small displacement ecodiesel was not affected as much in the cold winter months in Northern Ontario Canada as my Hemi was, the Hemi was so much harder on gas in the winter, the only advantage of the Hemi was it had more heat at idle.
So in reality the Hemi regular gas consumption for the entire 37,000 would be closer to another $2,000 more then the Ecodiesel.

 

[NorthStar]

The ecodiesel has 8 litres of oil compared to 7 litres for the Hemi, so the difference is not that great, the main difference is the ecodiesel must use full synthetic oil while the Hemi can run on regular oil.
I had the Hemi before my ecodiesel, my real life comparison:
My Ecodiesel with 37,000 km at last week fuel price ($1.23 litre) total cost =$5,137
My Hemi with 37,000 km at last week regular gas price ($1.47 litre) total cost =$8,529
The numbers above are for summer fuel/gas economy, the small displacement ecodiesel was not affected as much in the cold winter months in Northern Ontario Canada as my Hemi was, the Hemi was so much harder on gas in the winter, the only advantage of the Hemi was it had more heat at idle.
So in reality the Hemi regular gas consumption for the entire 37,000 would be closer to another $2,000 more then the Ecodiesel.

Thanks for the comparison as it’s clear you’ve done your homework. However, it appears you missed oil filters which are $50 each versus the Hemi $9.00 filter. Likewise, the Ecodiesel fuel filter is between $50 and $100 depending upon where it is purchased. Finally, your data is a comparison while in warranty. A failure resulting in parts and labor will exceed the $2000 perceived savings from the Hemi.

I’m on my third Ecodiesel (and have had three Cummins, one Duramax and one ancient GM diesel from the 80’s). Diesels were cheap to own back then but the EPA and rising repair costs have turned those numbers around.

 

[Aseras]

I don't know what you guys are doing, I've only put 4? jugs into my truck in almost 2 years now and 24,000 miles. 2.5 gallon jug runs $8.